09 Mazda 3 factory head unit... keeping it but helping the sound volume/clarity

[flatlander937]

I've been doing a bit of searching and a lot of reading, and have a very basic grasp on what needs to be done, but wanting to have it clarified by people who understand car audio. First off... I am not an audiophile or anything, until I got this Mazda 3, in other vehicles I actually preferred high highs and didn't care much about bass... but in this MZ3 it almost seems too "tinny" and I am getting a headache listening to some music... and I do NOT listen to anything super loud. I don't know if it's because everything in the car is very thin sheetmetal or what... but that is what happens. I can mess around with the bass/treble levels and it still sounds overly high pitched to me. I'd liken it to the noise that a non-flat screen TV makes when it's just on... with no volume.

For comparison I have an 03 Jeep Wrangler and it just had factory speakers up front, Pioneer replacement speakers in the sound bar, and a Pioneer DEH-P4000UB(until some asshole stole the faceplate)... and I was perfectly happy with it.


For starters: I do NOT want to replace the factory head unit... I prefer the look, it's less likely to be stolen and have the car broken into to grab, and the ONLY reason I went aftermarket in my Jeep was because I killed 2 factory radios from off roading, and they skipped on CDs when bouncing around on rocks/trails/etc.. so I got something that could play off a USB drive.


From what I've gathered... I need an amplifier to mimic the power output of an aftermarket head unit. I may or may not add a sub in the future... I'll wait until the amp is installed and maybe after the speakers are replaced(one I think is going bad... plus it appears depending on the amp wattage you're supposed to match the speakers' ratings?) to see how it sounds. So I just want the capability to power a decent single sub which will be removable and mounted in the trunk area(I will be wanting to remove it to race auto-x).


And to run an amp off the stock head unit... I need a line output converter correct? Unless there are speaker level inputs on whatever amp is decided upon.

I did some searching and it appears you may lose the balance and/or fade functions through the radio when doing this... is there any way to keep those functions? Maybe I'm thinking wrong, but would this require a 5 channel amp?(Remember I want room to grow by adding a sub possibly)

I really have relatively low expectations compared to most of you I'm sure... I'm just trying to not spend money on stuff that I really don't need... so any and all suggestions are welcome.

One other question I have is what will become of the tweeters in the front doors? I recall reading that in some cases you should disconnect them entirely, but it depends on what speakers are used? I take it you do not amplify them at all.

I listen to mostly 80s to modern rock, bit of metal, etc if it matters. No gangsta rap stuff or old lady violin music. Metallica, Avenged Sevenfold, etc etc.

 

[Bettr n' Revrse]

If you want to keep the stock head unit look into the JBL MS-8 processor...

 

[flatlander937]

If you want to keep the stock head unit look into the JBL MS-8 processor...

Looks neat, but not $800 worth to me... I did find it on Amazon for $530+ but that's still way over my budget. I would spend that much on a quality amp + all 4 speakers... but that's just too much for one item to me... did you see that I do NOT have high expectations? Haha.

 

[flatlander937]

Hmmm... after further reading and searching and re-reading after realizing I don't understand it all...

I stumbled upon this sticky which was interesting:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?118232-Rear-Speaker-Discussion

So it appears the rear speakers play no real important role... and my rear speakers are fine as it is right now(no distortion or anything... if there is then it's washed out by the fronts) so I could put off upgrading them for now.


And with my packaging concerns/potential want to upgrade to a sub... I'm considering running this amp:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_065GTA802/Boston-Acoustics-GTA-802.html?tp=35757

Under one of the front seats to power both front speakers only... which will be replaced with a nice set of component speakers that I'm hoping will match up nicely:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_065SR50/Boston-Acoustics-SR50.html?tp=106

I am wondering though, will the tweeters fit in the factory tweeter location without any problems? I don't know if all tweeters are a generic uniformed size/attaching method or whatnot. I can wrench on a car like nobody's business, but I have never really dived into car audio beyond just replacing stock stuff with stock-equivalent replacements.

Then beyond that, I would plan on adding a mono-amp + sub into the rear trunk area... with intent on making it all removable to suit my needs for space/lose the weight for auto-x events.


I think that the 2 channel amp will allow me to get more sound quality per $ and on top of that it will be lighter/smaller so easier to fit under one of the front seats. It would also make running wires for everything much easier(or so I think) as it would remain close to the front doors for new speaker wire to be ran(which I understand is -highly- advised since it's over 50w?).


Any flaws in my logic?

 

[Bettr n' Revrse]

Actually the MS8 has small amp in it just like a deck so you could power your speakers off of that but it's your call... To answer your questions rear speakers have there places and for the average user not looking for perfect imaging they are usually preferred.. That being said just an amp to a good set of components up front would be just fine with the proper installation (deadening, aiming, ext)... As for brand Boston you can't really go bad but don't be afraid to look around at some other brands such as hertz or focal... The tweets more then likely aren't going to go into the stock locations but a simple enclosure such as a sphere can be made to mount them away from the pillars and wind shield a bit which will help a ton with defraction (harshness from reflections) and aiming/imaging... If you are going to add a small sub stage later you could look into a 4 channel then bridge the remaining channels as well...

 

[Bettr n' Revrse]

O BTW don't buy from crutchfield they are way over priced lol

 

[chuyler1]

First off, you can choose to trust a guy with 20 posts or one with close to 12,000. That's up to you. I will start off by staying Crutchfield is the first and only place I would recommend for people looking to install audio equipment themselves for the first time. Everything they sell is backed by a solid warranty and their customer service is second to none. You might find the same amp or set of speakers for $20-30 cheaper on eBay (even less if it's used) but if something goes wrong, you are SOL. I've been getting their flyers in the mail for almost 20 years. I have purchased gear elsewhere during that time, but only because they didn't carry a specific brand. For example, they were slow to adopt JL Audio mainly because JL didn't want to sell online. But then, for a while Crutchfield was JL's only authorized retailer.

Second, you can decide for yourself whether or not you want rear speakers, but when you are on a fixed budget, there is no denying that you can get a better 2 channel amp and pair of speakers for $XXX opposed to a 4 channel amp and 4 speakers for the same $XXX. For the past 15 years, I haven't bothered with rear speakers. Only once on a road trip with friends did I wish I had them, once in 15 years. Of course, 95% of my driving is done with just me and my wife in the car. If you frequently have rear passengers and have the music on instead of chatting, you may want to consider them...since it can be difficult for rear passengers to hear the music clearly at highway speeds with low volume when the only mids and highs are coming from the front.

As for the equipment you picked out. Boston Acoustics is a great brand, and I'm not just saying that because I grew up in Massachusetts. The 2x80w amp you chose is a perfect amount of power for a set of components. Double check the dimensions to make sure it will still fit. I see that you chose 5.25" components. I'll admit I haven't been following the speaker size trends closely but I think a set of 6.5" speakers should fit in the front and that will give you significantly more bass. It is best to pull off the door panel and check all the dimensions before buying a set of speakers. You may have to build a baffle to mount them, but sometimes Crutchfield will supply those if you ask.

Integrating into the factory radio is unique for every vehicle. However the amp you chose has "speaker level inputs" as seen in the photos on Crutchfield.com. This means you can directly connect the front speaker outputs from the factory radio to the new amp. That means you won't need a line-out-converter. Tell the crutchfield rep this is what you plan on doing and they will hook you up with all the necessary wiring harnesses or direct you to a site that supplies them. If you purchase the right parts you won't have to cut any factory wiring. Oh, and your fader will still work and your rear speakers will still run off the factory radio. They most likely won't play as loud as your front components powered off the new amp, but they'll play loud enough for rear passengers to have a little music.

 

[flatlander937]

First off, you can choose to trust a guy with 20 posts or one with close to 12,000. That's up to you. I will start off by staying Crutchfield is the first and only place I would recommend for people looking to install audio equipment themselves for the first time. Everything they sell is backed by a solid warranty and their customer service is second to none. You might find the same amp or set of speakers for $20-30 cheaper on eBay (even less if it's used) but if something goes wrong, you are SOL. I've been getting their flyers in the mail for almost 20 years. I have purchased gear elsewhere during that time, but only because they didn't carry a specific brand. For example, they were slow to adopt JL Audio mainly because JL didn't want to sell online. But then, for a while Crutchfield was JL's only authorized retailer.

Second, you can decide for yourself whether or not you want rear speakers, but when you are on a fixed budget, there is no denying that you can get a better 2 channel amp and pair of speakers for $XXX opposed to a 4 channel amp and 4 speakers for the same $XXX. For the past 15 years, I haven't bothered with rear speakers. Only once on a road trip with friends did I wish I had them, once in 15 years. Of course, 95% of my driving is done with just me and my wife in the car. If you frequently have rear passengers and have the music on instead of chatting, you may want to consider them...since it can be difficult for rear passengers to hear the music clearly at highway speeds with low volume when the only mids and highs are coming from the front.

As for the equipment you picked out. Boston Acoustics is a great brand, and I'm not just saying that because I grew up in Massachusetts. The 2x80w amp you chose is a perfect amount of power for a set of components. Double check the dimensions to make sure it will still fit. I see that you chose 5.25" components. I'll admit I haven't been following the speaker size trends closely but I think a set of 6.5" speakers should fit in the front and that will give you significantly more bass. It is best to pull off the door panel and check all the dimensions before buying a set of speakers. You may have to build a baffle to mount them, but sometimes Crutchfield will supply those if you ask.

Integrating into the factory radio is unique for every vehicle. However the amp you chose has "speaker level inputs" as seen in the photos on Crutchfield.com. This means you can directly connect the front speaker outputs from the factory radio to the new amp. That means you won't need a line-out-converter. Tell the crutchfield rep this is what you plan on doing and they will hook you up with all the necessary wiring harnesses or direct you to a site that supplies them. If you purchase the right parts you won't have to cut any factory wiring. Oh, and your fader will still work and your rear speakers will still run off the factory radio. They most likely won't play as loud as your front components powered off the new amp, but they'll play loud enough for rear passengers to have a little music.

Thanks a bunch for your input!

One more question: With an amp putting 80w per channel to the front speakers... should the factory speaker wiring be bypassed and run something larger from the amp to the speakers? I calculated maybe about 7 amps max load based on 12v at 80 watts... going by a few wire charts I've found, 12g is recommended for 10 amps less than 15ft of wiring... and 16g is recommended for 5 amps... I do not know/recall the factory wiring size, but I'd guess 16g? I did find a few charts showing 16g to be plenty sufficient for even a 10 amp load... and less than 10ft 10 amp load being OK with 18ga... so it seems that 80 watts may be towards the limits of the stock wiring, but still safe to use? I know about calculating load and whatnot for normal electrical circuits... I just do not know how this translates into audio quality when the voltage being sent across those wires is to power a set of speakers. Of course less resistance is always better, but taking the 0 gauge wire off my Jeep's winch to wire in the speakers would be a bit overkill(boom06)

 

[Bettr n' Revrse]

First off, you can choose to trust a guy with 20 posts or one with close to 12,000. That's up to you. I will start off by staying Crutchfield is the first and only place I would recommend for people looking to install audio equipment themselves for the first time. Everything they sell is backed by a solid warranty and their customer service is second to none. You might find the same amp or set of speakers for $20-30 cheaper on eBay (even less if it's used) but if something goes wrong, you are SOL. I've been getting their flyers in the mail for almost 20 years. I have purchased gear elsewhere during that time, but only because they didn't carry a specific brand. For example, they were slow to adopt JL Audio mainly because JL didn't want to sell online. But then, for a while Crutchfield was JL's only authorized retailer.

Second, you can decide for yourself whether or not you want rear speakers, but when you are on a fixed budget, there is no denying that you can get a better 2 channel amp and pair of speakers for $XXX opposed to a 4 channel amp and 4 speakers for the same $XXX. For the past 15 years, I haven't bothered with rear speakers. Only once on a road trip with friends did I wish I had them, once in 15 years. Of course, 95% of my driving is done with just me and my wife in the car. If you frequently have rear passengers and have the music on instead of chatting, you may want to consider them...since it can be difficult for rear passengers to hear the music clearly at highway speeds with low volume when the only mids and highs are coming from the front.

As for the equipment you picked out. Boston Acoustics is a great brand, and I'm not just saying that because I grew up in Massachusetts. The 2x80w amp you chose is a perfect amount of power for a set of components. Double check the dimensions to make sure it will still fit. I see that you chose 5.25" components. I'll admit I haven't been following the speaker size trends closely but I think a set of 6.5" speakers should fit in the front and that will give you significantly more bass. It is best to pull off the door panel and check all the dimensions before buying a set of speakers. You may have to build a baffle to mount them, but sometimes Crutchfield will supply those if you ask.

Integrating into the factory radio is unique for every vehicle. However the amp you chose has "speaker level inputs" as seen in the photos on Crutchfield.com. This means you can directly connect the front speaker outputs from the factory radio to the new amp. That means you won't need a line-out-converter. Tell the crutchfield rep this is what you plan on doing and they will hook you up with all the necessary wiring harnesses or direct you to a site that supplies them. If you purchase the right parts you won't have to cut any factory wiring. Oh, and your fader will still work and your rear speakers will still run off the factory radio. They most likely won't play as loud as your front components powered off the new amp, but they'll play loud enough for rear passengers to have a little music.

Why don't you go check Caraudio.com and see how your post count stacks up then or you can quit basing knowledge off of post count? Crutch field is over priced and sells nothing but mainstream equipment which is already over priced thats why I suggested he looked else where...

 

[20 below]

Why would you limit yourself like that. Crutchfield is highly over priced. I would go to an actual car audio site to get car audio advice. Caraudio.com DIYMA, CACO are much better sources.

AS far as keep stock fatory look, Audio Control, JBL MS8, Audison One bit, Frosgate, ect. so many options.

 

[chuyler1]

12,000 posts in 2 years at Caraudio.com? I see why you don't have value in post count. I stand corrected, maybe I should base it on "member since" instead. I've been bouncing from forum to forum for over 10 years gaining and sharing advice. Back in 1999 there was really only one place to talk car audio: SoundDomain. My member # there is 415 but I haven't bothered to post in ages.

20 below, very odd that your first post is one to support Bettr. Did you sign up just to tell us that Crutchfield is over priced? The reason their prices are higher is because they are one of the only authorized online dealers for most manufacturers. If you buy products like Boston Acoustics elsewhere you will have a very hard time getting warranty support when something breaks. Crutchfield has the best support in the business and its the reason they are still around after decades.

Back on topic, Audio Control, JBL, Audison, and Fosgate (not Frosgate) all fall into audiophile solutions outside the budget of most consumers that are simply looking to get a little better sound out of their factory radio. There is nothing overly complex about the Mazda3 stereo that simple line level inputs on an amp won't resolve. If someone is asking basic questions about connecting an amp and speakers, you don't tell them their only solution is an expensive 30 band EQ. Instead, you point them to a business that specializes in selling equipment to the novice DIYer. They may pay an extra $20 for the same speakers they could get elsewhere...but they'll get a full manufacturers warranty, a free installation kit, and a free step by step instruction manual on how to install the speakers in their vehicle.

 

[Suicide Bobb]

12,000 posts in 2 years at Caraudio.com? I see why you don't have value in post count. I stand corrected, maybe I should base it on "member since" instead. I've been bouncing from forum to forum for over 10 years gaining and sharing advice. Back in 1999 there was really only one place to talk car audio: SoundDomain. My member # there is 415 but I haven't bothered to post in ages.

20 below, very odd that your first post is one to support Bettr. Did you sign up just to tell us that Crutchfield is over priced? The reason their prices are higher is because they are one of the only authorized online dealers for most manufacturers. If you buy products like Boston Acoustics elsewhere you will have a very hard time getting warranty support when something breaks. Crutchfield has the best support in the business and its the reason they are still around after decades.

Back on topic, Audio Control, JBL, Audison, and Fosgate (not Frosgate) all fall into audiophile solutions outside the budget of most consumers that are simply looking to get a little better sound out of their factory radio. There is nothing overly complex about the Mazda3 stereo that simple line level inputs on an amp won't resolve. If someone is asking basic questions about connecting an amp and speakers, you don't tell them their only solution is an expensive 30 band EQ. Instead, you point them to a business that specializes in selling equipment to the novice DIYer. They may pay an extra $20 for the same speakers they could get elsewhere...but they'll get a full manufacturers warranty, a free installation kit, and a free step by step instruction manual on how to install the speakers in their vehicle.

Let me chime in then, since I have been here for a few months and obviously haven't just joined to back Bettr 'n reverse up (no pun intended).

Basing knowledge on post count is probably the most ignorant assumption you can make. As if, because you have more posts in a car forum, that makes you the God of car audio. I could have double the amount of real life experience on the subject, but somehow you want to make it seem as if you know more because you have spent more time here than hands on with audio equipment. There is no arguing this point, as your own argument is moot.

Further, Crutchfield IS overpriced just as JL is overpriced. You can buy a comparable or better woofer to the W7 from the likes of SSA Audio, TC Sounds, etc. For literally a third of the price. Like Crutchfield, you are paying much more money for the customer service/warranty. Is it worth the premium? Sometimes, yes. Most of the time, absolutely not.

If you want to be babied and pampered and spend more money than necessary, Crutchfield is the place to go. If you want to spend your money wisely, look elsewhere. Besides, I can guarantee that places like SSA Audio will provide as good or better customer service, but you're too sucked in to the Crutchfield hype to see that.

OP, check out the Alpine pxe-h660. It's an inexpensive alternative that will suit your application well. While it's not as good as the ms8, it's only $220!

And if you need any more audio advice, feel free to PM me. I don't claim to know everything, but I have a lot of hands on experience with car and home audio, and I don't follow the marketing hype from mainstream brands so I know where to spend your money wisely. I'm also starting my own car audio forum, and am currently running a temporary forum of sorts while the real forum is under construction. Hopefully that provides some credibility on my end.

 

[chuyler1]

When it comes to subwoofers, I can totally agree with you. There are plenty of cheaper options to JL Audio that will get you the same cone area and power handling at a fraction of the price. Most listeners won't notice the difference as long as it plays loud. Build quality is debatable since most are manufactured in China based on some plans one or two guys put together. Leave the sub in a car for 2 years with extreme hot and cold temps, and the product's true quality will be revealed.

Meanwhile JL Audio works off years of experience and builds the majority of their subwoofers right here in the U.S. Yes you pay more...but chances are you'll still be using the same subwoofers in 10 years because they spent the time to develop the right type of glue that won't deteriorate over time. And you're funding our own economy, not some build shop in china stamping out the same frames for a dozen different internet brands.

I expect my electronics to last forever (or until I'm ready to part with it), so I typically don't bother with brands that haven't been around long enough to prove themselves. I've been burned a few times by believing people on the internet when they say something sounds great or is just as good as something else. Unless I can find side-by-side review with subjective and objective analysis of 2 or more products I won't spend my money on it. Forum reviews are sometimes acceptable, but only if the reviewer has a track record of quality installs.

 

[flatlander937]

I was thinking about responding to the post count comment, but decided against it earlier. I don't care what your post count is, as long as you have some experience/knowledge to back up what you're recommending.


Back on topic... thanks for the suggestions! That PXE-H660 unit looks interesting(and more in-line with my budget/priorities) and I may consider it.

It appears it does not have an amp built into it/boost the radio RMS power at all, so I will still be adding an amp regardless, mainly because I want to put some good speakers up front. So now it looks like maybe amp + processor + speakers up front will be done for at once... then depending on how it sounds I may add a sub and amp in the back.



And can somebody answer the question I had a few posts up about wire size at 80w?

 

[Bettr n' Revrse]

Are you referring to what speaker wire you need for 80 watts OP?


Sorry to have this blow up in your thread I just didn't appreciate the comment about post count although I understand the hesitation there... I may not have been in the game since 99 but car audio is what I do and what I spend my time learning so I take it pretty seriously and like helping others...

 

[chuyler1]

The PXE is a nice unit but I would hook up an amp and set of components before spending the money on it. Some factory radios are more difficult to integrate than others and I'd say Mazdas are among the easier ones. When you get into luxury vehicles with 6+ separate channels the processor becomes a must have.

For speaker wire, I use whatever is available in my bag of leftovers. Some swear by Home Depot zip cord (aka cheap lamp power wire) while others recommend 14 or 16 gauge twisted speaker cable. I've used everything from cat5 to 12 gauge and never had an issue...but I wouldn't recommend cat5 for automotive applications.

 

[1sty]

For what its worth, I agree with chuyler1 is offering very solid advice by sending someone with so many quesitons toward Crutchfield.
In all, yes there maybe better gear for a lower price on a site like sonixelectronics, but there there is also a complete mountain of Monkey s*** there too.
Only those experienced in audio, which both of you gents are, is going to know an unknown but high quality brand like ULS (which chuyler1 has used for some time) as opposed to an off brand rebadged Chinese built crap.

Crutchfield is good choice for those starting out because they will actually help you over the phone to complete your install. They are not just there to deal with typical customer
service questions. It was crutchfield that really let me start into doing installs myself years ago. It was not always the best advice but considering that they were 400 miles away and dealing with a complete idiot at install they had to keep it simple.

JL is always a hot button on forums. People love to hate them. But you have to respect them. Anyone that doesn't finds themselves on my "full of s*** list".
JL has successed by sticking to being high quailty when all of their compeditors whored out to best buy and were enevitable consumed by it. All of these brands coming out of the ashes of an industry that garbage like audiobahn created are just where JL was 20 years ago. Its actually a good time to be in the scenes as its in a state of renewal. but with that comes the fact that companies may disappear very quickly like Adire did. These are for the most part up starts and not financially stable. Adire was all of the rage online for two year and then with a quick post on their website, they were gone. Too bad that POS company eD survived. Companies like Alpine and JL are not going anywhere.

I will also add this to the mix, the likely hood of a product being illegally sold to an online company or being counterfeit is near 0%.
You can buy most any brand online from a retailer that always seems to have them. There is a simple reason for this, that manufacturer not only knows they are doing this.....they know where they are getting it from and they don't give a crap.

Many brands will deny a defective products warranty claim if you get it from a non authorized retailer. What they don't tell you is at the end of the quarter when a stack of inventory is backed up, they intentionally move it to seller online that can just blow those units out at a cheap price.
If these products were truly illegally sold, the manufacturer could have their branding and images removed over night due to copy right laws and the site would no longer bother posting them for sale.

So yes you can get JL from a non authorized online retailer and it will be authentic. You can even buy items that are arguably better.
However if you are new to car audio, the chances of you blowing something up or at very least, the chances of you needing some help are very high. In these cases and for these people Crutchfield is a good choice. So is letting someone else install it for you for that matter. At this point in my life, I can certainly spend the two days installing my own stuff or I can go home, enjoy my satureday and play with my kids while someone else installs it and if they screw up, I have the knowledge to rip them apart over it



PPS, my post counts own all and this is my first post in like a year.

 

[Suicide Bobb]

When it comes to subwoofers, I can totally agree with you. There are plenty of cheaper options to JL Audio that will get you the same cone area and power handling at a fraction of the price. Most listeners won't notice the difference as long as it plays loud. Build quality is debatable since most are manufactured in China based on some plans one or two guys put together. Leave the sub in a car for 2 years with extreme hot and cold temps, and the product's true quality will be revealed.

Meanwhile JL Audio works off years of experience and builds the majority of their subwoofers right here in the U.S. Yes you pay more...but chances are you'll still be using the same subwoofers in 10 years because they spent the time to develop the right type of glue that won't deteriorate over time. And you're funding our own economy, not some build shop in china stamping out the same frames for a dozen different internet brands.

I expect my electronics to last forever (or until I'm ready to part with it), so I typically don't bother with brands that haven't been around long enough to prove themselves. I've been burned a few times by believing people on the internet when they say something sounds great or is just as good as something else. Unless I can find side-by-side review with subjective and objective analysis of 2 or more products I won't spend my money on it. Forum reviews are sometimes acceptable, but only if the reviewer has a track record of quality installs.

My intention was not to turn this into a conversation about JL, but rather to compare it to Crutchfield. But since you went there...

The companies I mentioned, SSA and TC Sounds, are both made-in-USA companies like JL. SSA isn't a child by any means, and TC Sounds has been around for more than long enough to establish a reputation for building better quality drivers than JL for cheaper. Sundown Audio is another good example, they are winning a lot more sound quality and SPL trophies right now than JL. These are just a few examples of companies that make their products in the USA, are MUCH cheaper than comparable JL, and have a reputation of bulletproof reliability and sound quality (and in some cases, SPL as well). Is there a place for JL Audio? Yes, with their HD amplifiers. Their subs however are far behind those from the likes of other manufacturers though. Like Bose and Crutchfield, they are experts in marketing. Unlike Bose at least, they make half decent products, but that is getting off topic

Besides that, I would say it's ignorant to tout JL's reliability in the glue department because I have seen plenty of W6v2 soft parts hop off the basket. Their poor quality foam surrounds from every v1 sub, be it the w1, w3, w4, w6, you name it, all are notorious for corroding. You might say, "hey, well all foam surrounds from that era have crumbled!", and you would be wrong since I've got plenty of subs around the house to prove it. For example, a base model Atomic 12, one of their first subs made (pre-millenium), and the surround feels brand spankin new. Or, my pair of Earthquake Magma 15's from 2001, surrounds are still fresh. These are a couple examples why I don't believe all of the JL hype and marketing, because I've actually had experience and done my research. There is MUCH better to be had for the money, build quality and sound quality included.

Sorry OP for the thread jack. Hopefully this enlightens you a little bit about what marketing does to the car audio community, and maybe now (if you didn't before) you'll be able to make better educated decisions with your purchases. I have no personal vendetta against JL, I loved my W6v1, great little sub. But hell if I'd ever pay too much more than I did for it ($50) because there are a great many better options out there for the money if you are buying new (which you are). And like you said, you'll definitely want an external amp regardless of getting the PXE or not. I would rather run a decent aftermarket amp to my stock speakers than run quality speakers off headunit power. If you're real smart and want the best sound for your money, you'll build your own speaker system from drivers on partsexpress.com and go 2-way or 3-way active. You can spend less than $150 on a 2-way active front stage, $250 on a nice 4-channel amp, and enjoy an epic sound quality speaker stage that will make your buddies with Focal setups go back to the shops and return their setup

 

[20 below]

I gets killa deals. Im beast.

 

[chuyler1]

I hear you about marketing. We all know Bose. Better sound through engineering really means adequate sound with a huge profit margin through engineering ways to reduce the bottom line so they can spend more on advertising. Boy that's a mouthful. In short, a cheap speaker and a computer chip is what they consider audiophile and they sell enough to saturate the market with their mediocre equipment.

It's been a while since I've run a JL Audio sub in my car so I'm probably not the best spokes person. However, bringing up foam surrounds is a pretty low blow. The W6v1 came out in 1993 and yes EVERYONE was still using foam back then, it was a hell of a lot better than paper. If you weren't running JL Audio subs in the early 90's you didn't have a chance at winning any competitions. I had a W0v1 in my basement with the surround still in tact up until last year. A friend fried it sending too much power (around 1998) and for some reason I held on to it until our recent move. The v1 subs stayed on the market a little too long without a refresh (almost a decade). I don't know the history of the subs you mentioned but I doubt they date back as far as 1993. Anyway, in the late 90's JL was working on component speakers and amplifiers to round out their selection and I think they really neglected their subwoofer lineup. The Slash amps were cutting edge when they were released but they quickly had to refresh their subs to handle the power levels people were running. Their last major speaker achievement was probably the W7 and that's a decade old now. They've moved their focus over to other areas of the industry. Their subwoofers are still good, but other companies are chipping away at the dominance they used to have. I don't consider myself a JL fan boy, but they deserve credit where it's due. I would recommend their amps and speakers in a heartbeat.

As for these new companies. Bose might advertise too much, but TC Sounds needs to get with the program. Their website has A copyright date of 2010 with a "Coming Soon" graphic followed by missing specs on all their products. You can rave all you want about products on internet forums, but my local pizza joint has a better website than that. It doesn't look good no matter how you spin it. With SSA, my concern is power handling. Judging from the specs, they are all about high power. I run a 2.5w amp on my home system powering 10w speakers and it sounds better than any car audio install I've ever heard. I'm not a bass head, I never was and never will be. I have no interest in the technology required to build a subwoofer designed to handle 2,000 watts. If they are winning SPL competitions that's great...but I listen to music and you don't need 2,000 watts in a car to enjoy rock, jazz, and ocasional pop music. Right now I run a 170w free air sub powered by a 300w amp. It's plenty for me.

I think what the industry lacks right now is the magazine scene. Yesterday I was searching for the magazines that used to review products and they pretty much don't exist anymore (send me a link if you know of one). Side by side comparisons fueled the industry and built it up, but now it seems to be staying afloat through internet forum discussions. You can find hundreds of comparison reviews of the latest cell phone options but you can't find anything that will review the latest high end head unit lineup. It's pretty sad actually. I learned a lot and got a ton of inspiration from reading CA&E, AS&S, and CSR through the 90's and early 2000's. Now I have to browse crappy install logs for hours to find a few decent photos of a quality installation.