Giving my car as a blessing, needs repairs, local mechanic - advice.
- Thread starter tangierc
- Start date
Did you take it off to inspect it?
So the Mazda Protege shop manual says the following are the possible causes of P0171 (page 1-02B-67, in attached file):
" Misfire
HO2S (front) deterioration
HO2S (front) heater malfunction
PRC solenoid valve malfunction
Pressure regulator malfunction
Fuel pump malfunction
Fuel filter clogged or restricted
Fuel leakage on fuel line from fuel delivery pipe and fuel pump
Fuel return hose clogged
Leakage from exhaust system
Purge solenoid valve malfunction
Purge solenoid hoses improper connection
Insufficient compression"
1. intake air leak/vacuum hoses. If the intake tube is intact, then the next likely culprit is a cracked or disconnected vacuum hose. Trace all of the hoses coming off the air intake+throttle body and inspect them for cracks and make sure they are securely connected. Alternately, you can try spraying starting fluid around the air intake and vacuum hoses--if there is a crack letting air in, the engine will temporarily rise in speed when starting fluid enters the intake air.
2. O2 sensor. The upstream oxygen sensor might be on the fritz. Testing it requires connecting to the OBDII port. Alternately, you can just replace it with one from RockAuto, though this is an expensive way to diagnose it.
3. MAF. The MAF might be dirty or malfunctioning. You can try cleaning it with a MAF cleaner. Monitoring its function also requires connecting to the OBDII port.
4. Purge solenoid valve. I've attached the inspection procedure below. It might be easier to clamp off the line going to the throttle body for a while to see if that causes the code to go away. An unlikely cause.
P0171 inspection procedure:
purge solenoid valve inspection procedure:
This posting is problematic... You do not test a catalytic converter by measuring its temperature. While a catalytic converter is designed to work best at a specific temperature, measuring the temperature tells you nothing about the efficiency of operation of the cat. Per the Mazda shop manual, the cat is tested by comparing the signals of the two oxygen sensors, one upstream of the catalytic converter and one downstream.
Re: Getting the smog check per CEL P0421 and P0171
OK folks. Key question - how many miles before the ECM resets? A mechanic found that I had a major vacuum leak (gasket) in the exhaust manifold and repaired it. CEL is gone since then. I just want to get this car to pass a smog check so that I can transfer the title to the recipient family. Plus it's due in April and I don't want them to have that expense.
I drove the car 51 miles (50 miles per mechanic's instructions) after the leak was fixed so that the ECM would reset. This morning the mechanic said that the final setting for the catalytic converter hasn't been reset so he couldn't give me the go-ahead to go and get the smog check. All of the other 5 of 6 settings (pardon my terminology but I am not as well versed in the ECM) are good to go.
At the time of writing this I now have 58 miles since the leak was repaired and no CEL has come on. Is it safe to take it for a smog check now? Is there a specific amount of mileage I can safely know it's OK to take it for smog without having to go back to the mechanic to check the ECM to see if I have the "all clear"? Hope this makes sense. It's all relatively new to me.
OK folks. Key question - how many miles before the ECM resets? A mechanic found that I had a major vacuum leak (gasket) in the exhaust manifold and repaired it. CEL is gone since then. I just want to get this car to pass a smog check so that I can transfer the title to the recipient family. Plus it's due in April and I don't want them to have that expense.
I drove the car 51 miles (50 miles per mechanic's instructions) after the leak was fixed so that the ECM would reset. This morning the mechanic said that the final setting for the catalytic converter hasn't been reset so he couldn't give me the go-ahead to go and get the smog check. All of the other 5 of 6 settings (pardon my terminology but I am not as well versed in the ECM) are good to go.
At the time of writing this I now have 58 miles since the leak was repaired and no CEL has come on. Is it safe to take it for a smog check now? Is there a specific amount of mileage I can safely know it's OK to take it for smog without having to go back to the mechanic to check the ECM to see if I have the "all clear"? Hope this makes sense. It's all relatively new to me.
That's awesome that you found it, without having to replace the expensive cat! There's no set mileage before the ECU says all systems normal. The only way to know is to connect to the ECM. You can drive the car, say, another 30-50 miles and assume it's safe or take the car back to the mechanic and have him read the ECM. Looking forward to hearing about the car going to this family.
Ah, OK it's the ECU. The mechanic connected to the car this morning and and it was the final catalytic converter setting or reading that hadn't cleared yet. I intend to turn over the car this coming Sunday. I really hope that CEL doesn't come on. So I guess I am flying blind here. I can't know if it's OK to take it for a smog check unless I get the mechanic to read the ECM again. I was hoping to just take a chance at 60 miles and go to the nearest smog place on my lunch break. Sounds like that's a risky proposition.
Wouldn't you know it, my ASC aftermarket sunroof failed this week - stuck in the vent position. Getting that fixed on Saturday.
I figure if I can just get the car smog checked before giving it to them then at least I can then transfer the title. Here in Los Angeles, California (can't speak for other states) you can't transfer the title (and therefore they can't have their own insurance on the car) without having the smog check pass. I don't want them worrying about any of that so I am frantically trying to get this done before Sunday.
Got a door lock actuator off ebay for right rear door. Will be replacing that myself this week.
Almost there...
Wouldn't you know it, my ASC aftermarket sunroof failed this week - stuck in the vent position. Getting that fixed on Saturday.
I figure if I can just get the car smog checked before giving it to them then at least I can then transfer the title. Here in Los Angeles, California (can't speak for other states) you can't transfer the title (and therefore they can't have their own insurance on the car) without having the smog check pass. I don't want them worrying about any of that so I am frantically trying to get this done before Sunday.
Got a door lock actuator off ebay for right rear door. Will be replacing that myself this week.
Almost there...
100 miles is the typical rule of thumb. my 70-100 miles all of your obd test should be at "ready". Its unusual that a exhaust manifold leak would happen, but i suppose anything is possible with a protege. Now...you say vacuum leak. do you meanintake manifold gasket? That would be more of a common issue.
Sensors are good according to mechanic. Unfortunately folks the CEL came back on at 82 miles. I'm still getting a P0421 so I have to get the cat replaced. Seems like only the front one (hopefully). Mechanic said I should call the Mazda dealer to get one because he couldn't find an EPA qualified aftermarket one. Too many of the aftermarkets supposedly don't meet EPA standards and fail smog tests not too long after they're installed. Looks like I have to take it to Mazda (and pay Mazda prices). I'd order it and do it myself if it's not bad of a job. Though I'm up against delaying them having the car so I can get all of the repairs done(which they still don't know they're getting) or just giving the car to them this weekend, order the parts ahead of time at their nearest Mazda dealer (9 miles from them), and having them take the car to get the cat installed at their convenience and before vehicle registration due in mid April. At least they could start using it sooner than later.
I don't know whether or not that's true of course. Called Mazda here in Culver City - $510 for the front cat. I tell you, this is starting to drive me up a wall just to save some money and get to the coveted passing of a smog check. I won't be happy though if I get it installed and it's the rear cat. It's all for a good cause though.
On an another note, I replaced the right rear door lock actuator last night on my own. Took about an hour. It wasn't easy getting my arm in the door frame, holding the actuator and using my other hand to get those two screws in. I'm a certified contortionist now. Getting various car repairs has allowed me to ride my bike more to get home, work, and back to the car. I guess that's not so bad. Bought myself a cheap wifi OBD II reader with Dash Command for my iPhone. I've learned so much throughout this process I figured it'd be good to have a tool like this for my wife's car and my car that's replacing the Protege.
Tomorrow is repair the aftermarket ASC sunroof day which is stuck in the vented position. That just failed a little over a week and half ago after I got the mounts replaced. Have to get the sunroof done obviously or they can't wash the car and if it rains...you get the picture.
Almost there...
I don't know whether or not that's true of course. Called Mazda here in Culver City - $510 for the front cat. I tell you, this is starting to drive me up a wall just to save some money and get to the coveted passing of a smog check. I won't be happy though if I get it installed and it's the rear cat. It's all for a good cause though.
On an another note, I replaced the right rear door lock actuator last night on my own. Took about an hour. It wasn't easy getting my arm in the door frame, holding the actuator and using my other hand to get those two screws in. I'm a certified contortionist now. Getting various car repairs has allowed me to ride my bike more to get home, work, and back to the car. I guess that's not so bad. Bought myself a cheap wifi OBD II reader with Dash Command for my iPhone. I've learned so much throughout this process I figured it'd be good to have a tool like this for my wife's car and my car that's replacing the Protege.
Tomorrow is repair the aftermarket ASC sunroof day which is stuck in the vented position. That just failed a little over a week and half ago after I got the mounts replaced. Have to get the sunroof done obviously or they can't wash the car and if it rains...you get the picture.
Almost there...
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Sorry to hear about the cat, it's a pricey part. The rear catalytic converter is not monitored by a downstream O2 sensor, so it cannot throw a code. Rockauto.com does sell an aftermarket catalytic converter that is CA/NY legal. It's made by Walker, part #82578 for $329 (+ shipping but -5% discount with codes that you can find online). The Mazda one probably is higher quality, though.
Word of caution... it's unclear why the catalytic converter failed. Often on Protege's the cat gets burned out when the coilpacks fail. This dumps unburned fuel into the cat, burning it up. If failed coilpacks were the cause, the new catalytic converter will be on its way out shortly. It is very, very highly recommended (read: mandatory) you replace the coilpacks (and probably the wires) before replacing the cat. I know the last thing you want to do is spend more money, but this should be considered necessary insurance.
That's great that you fixed the door actuator on your own... did you figure it out on your own or did you find instructions online? OBD II plug-in is well worth the price.
You've made great progress, will be all worth it for them and seems like you've learned a lot in the process.
Word of caution... it's unclear why the catalytic converter failed. Often on Protege's the cat gets burned out when the coilpacks fail. This dumps unburned fuel into the cat, burning it up. If failed coilpacks were the cause, the new catalytic converter will be on its way out shortly. It is very, very highly recommended (read: mandatory) you replace the coilpacks (and probably the wires) before replacing the cat. I know the last thing you want to do is spend more money, but this should be considered necessary insurance.
That's great that you fixed the door actuator on your own... did you figure it out on your own or did you find instructions online? OBD II plug-in is well worth the price.
You've made great progress, will be all worth it for them and seems like you've learned a lot in the process.
I found the instructions on taking the door apart and and installing the actuator online on two different links, one of them being this:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...How-To-Replace-Broken-Door-Lock-Actuator-Gear
I decided to just get the entire actuator. Mine was the exact same part broken that's in the picture in the link above.
Are the coil packs expensive? Are these things I can get from Rockauto as well? Is it worth buying these parts and having my local mechanic install or just take the vehicle to Mazda and get it done.
Thanks a lot.
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...How-To-Replace-Broken-Door-Lock-Actuator-Gear
I decided to just get the entire actuator. Mine was the exact same part broken that's in the picture in the link above.
Are the coil packs expensive? Are these things I can get from Rockauto as well? Is it worth buying these parts and having my local mechanic install or just take the vehicle to Mazda and get it done.
Thanks a lot.
Just to be sure - this is what I need to get (if I bought it myself) - the top left image on the first link? I am going to look at rockauto next.
http://www.oemautopartz.com/mazda/?...&search_in=all&search_str=Catalytic converter
http://www.oemautopartz.com/mazda/m...lytic-converter&part_name=catalytic-converter
http://www.oemautopartz.com/mazda/?...&search_in=all&search_str=Catalytic converter
http://www.oemautopartz.com/mazda/m...lytic-converter&part_name=catalytic-converter
THIS! yes...cat will fail for two reasons. The owner will drive the car for extended periods of time with a misfire or the fact that massive amounts of fuel additives are used.
The walker is a direct replacement and is similar of quality of the mazda unit. You will probably need to get a downpipe though, since the original flange may break upon removal.
tangierc - No, that is not the correct part (part #5 in that diagram is the REAR catalytic converter). You need the front catalytic converter, which is attached to the exhaust manifold (part #4 here: http://www.oemautopartz.com/mazda/m...-systems&part_name=catalytic-converter-gasket). It is also pictured in the description of the Walker part on RockAuto.com.
For OEM parts, you can also try onlinemazdaparts.com (Montgomery Mazda in NC), which sells cheaper than MSRP and has good customer service that will verify it's the right part for your can if you give the VIN.
The coilpack you can very easily do yourself, but I don't know exactly how to do it on the 1.8L. Whether to get OEM or aftermarket... it's a critical part that you don't want failing, so I would personally spend the money and install OEM, but a good aftermarket company should make a decent unit. RockAuto is showing a price of $100-130. Know you don't want to spend more money on the car, but this is an important part.
There used to be a company that sold just the plastic gear in the actuator, but they seem to have stopped selling on ebay. Great you were able to fix it yourself.
BTW: the Protege's biggest downfall is rust... without that as a concern in your part of CA, the car is mechanically very good and requires minimal maintenance and repair. There are plenty of forum members that have logged 200,000-300,000 miles+ on the BJ Protege. While pouring money into it now is a pain, bringing the Pro up to speed now should allow it to give years of reliable service to that family. Meaning the $1000-1500 you're putting into it now will spread out to a few hundred dollars a year for every year the car runs... that's not too shabby.
What is the Protege's successor in your garage?
For OEM parts, you can also try onlinemazdaparts.com (Montgomery Mazda in NC), which sells cheaper than MSRP and has good customer service that will verify it's the right part for your can if you give the VIN.
The coilpack you can very easily do yourself, but I don't know exactly how to do it on the 1.8L. Whether to get OEM or aftermarket... it's a critical part that you don't want failing, so I would personally spend the money and install OEM, but a good aftermarket company should make a decent unit. RockAuto is showing a price of $100-130. Know you don't want to spend more money on the car, but this is an important part.
There used to be a company that sold just the plastic gear in the actuator, but they seem to have stopped selling on ebay. Great you were able to fix it yourself.
BTW: the Protege's biggest downfall is rust... without that as a concern in your part of CA, the car is mechanically very good and requires minimal maintenance and repair. There are plenty of forum members that have logged 200,000-300,000 miles+ on the BJ Protege. While pouring money into it now is a pain, bringing the Pro up to speed now should allow it to give years of reliable service to that family. Meaning the $1000-1500 you're putting into it now will spread out to a few hundred dollars a year for every year the car runs... that's not too shabby.
What is the Protege's successor in your garage?
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BTW: the air intake tube is a common failure part on this car... at 14+ years old, that's about 172 years old in accordion intake tube years. When it fails (slowly) it will give intermittent erratic idle, possible misfires, possible engine codes. If it's never been replaced, consider replacing it as preventative maintenance. $35 to your door from RockAuto and you can replace it yourself.
Just checking in folks with an update. I just got the car back literally within the last hour from Mazda. It's been with them two weeks getting the CAT replaced. It shouldn't have taken that long, but the wrong parts were initially sent, so they had to be reordered. Now I have to drive it to put some miles on it to make sure the CEL does't come on, get the smog check and all should be good to go.
Thanks for all of the help, and advice folks.
Thanks for all of the help, and advice folks.
Car delivered folks!
Getting this car ready was a journey - me riding my bike around the city, rearranging kid pickup and drop off schedules with my wife, and the expenses of course, but the benefit to the family is worth it. When I told them my wife and I were giving it to them, the wife/mother teared up because over the last year she had prayed for specifically what was happening - that someone would bless them with a car. The kids were happy, and the father as well; explaining to me that though his family life has seen struggles in recent years, this is the fruit of him staying faithful to God. He detailed a bit his current means of getting around by bus and train, sometimes missing one or the other due to getting off so late from work and the buses not running anymore; therefore having to walk miles to get to LAX where he could find late running buses. He detailed other getting-around struggles on foot, but his spirit never seemed to waiver.
We (the father/husband and I) broke bread last night (my treat) with my family. I had a craving for Five Guys burgers. We went for a quick drive in the car pushing the engine to show how good condition it was in, placed the 2015 sticker on it (just got that yesterday - thanks to AAA for being able to get it on the spot and not in the mail), went over any particulars about the car, I gave the title and the DMV form to fill out, a copy of my insurance docs (they'll be covered for 30 days), all service records, original manuals, brochure and window sticker from when I bought it, handed him the keys and remotes.
We hugged - a man hug. He imparted a prayer for me and my family, got in the car and drove home to his family.
There was a brief moment of disbelief and emptiness watching my former car leave. That was my first car that I bought. I loved that car up until the moment it was gone. It's a manual tranny too. I had so much fun in that car. It was surreal that it was officially gone. Though it was better to have been in a position where we (my wife and I) could bless them this way in their time of need.
Now, if nothing else, the family can get around more easily and eat together in the evenings and maybe the morning since dad doesn't have to leave so early or get home so late.
A lot of people were involved in this process including you all on this forum. Others were blessed by the gesture and offered their effort (time, discounts, advice) in their own way.
To God be the Glory. I'm just the steward.
Until the next giveaway...
Getting this car ready was a journey - me riding my bike around the city, rearranging kid pickup and drop off schedules with my wife, and the expenses of course, but the benefit to the family is worth it. When I told them my wife and I were giving it to them, the wife/mother teared up because over the last year she had prayed for specifically what was happening - that someone would bless them with a car. The kids were happy, and the father as well; explaining to me that though his family life has seen struggles in recent years, this is the fruit of him staying faithful to God. He detailed a bit his current means of getting around by bus and train, sometimes missing one or the other due to getting off so late from work and the buses not running anymore; therefore having to walk miles to get to LAX where he could find late running buses. He detailed other getting-around struggles on foot, but his spirit never seemed to waiver.
We (the father/husband and I) broke bread last night (my treat) with my family. I had a craving for Five Guys burgers. We went for a quick drive in the car pushing the engine to show how good condition it was in, placed the 2015 sticker on it (just got that yesterday - thanks to AAA for being able to get it on the spot and not in the mail), went over any particulars about the car, I gave the title and the DMV form to fill out, a copy of my insurance docs (they'll be covered for 30 days), all service records, original manuals, brochure and window sticker from when I bought it, handed him the keys and remotes.
We hugged - a man hug. He imparted a prayer for me and my family, got in the car and drove home to his family.
There was a brief moment of disbelief and emptiness watching my former car leave. That was my first car that I bought. I loved that car up until the moment it was gone. It's a manual tranny too. I had so much fun in that car. It was surreal that it was officially gone. Though it was better to have been in a position where we (my wife and I) could bless them this way in their time of need.
Now, if nothing else, the family can get around more easily and eat together in the evenings and maybe the morning since dad doesn't have to leave so early or get home so late.
A lot of people were involved in this process including you all on this forum. Others were blessed by the gesture and offered their effort (time, discounts, advice) in their own way.
To God be the Glory. I'm just the steward.
Until the next giveaway...
You just made my sig! awesome!
