what would happen

[ms3guy22]

if you..
...........First i'm talking about piece of metal that is welded onto the shifter that connects the linkage. Could you extend or shorten to create a shorter throw heres is what i'm talking about. And just cut the actualy shifter shaft down.

Second i really hate that reverse lock out mechanism. could you just cut out that piece of plastic which is stopping the small piece of metal from sliding all the way over. Its the piece that has the lub on it.

 

[enganear]

With proper fabrication skills, what you say could be done. You would start to see the linkage bulging in the front part of the boot. Personally I would not like the shifter being as low as the short shifters I have seen marketed. I recurved my shift lever to the right and forward. In 6th, it is sticking straight up. A better solution for the brave among us is to follow Rotus' lead and modify the lever on the transmission.

If you defeat the lockout, how do you plan to avoid selecting reverse instead of 1st? I think you would find this to be a mistake.
-enganear

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

A better solution for the brave among us is to follow Rotus' lead and modify the lever on the transmission.

That mod confuses the heck out of me. I have always thought that you had to move that arm a certain distance (degrees actually) to change from one gear to another. So if you change the leverage at the shifter, then a shorter throw will move the arm the same number of degrees. In theory, if you relocate the pivot point on the arm, then you accomplish the same thing.
My problem comes about because I have this idea that the shifter assembly somehow limits the length of the actual movement of the cable by controlling the length of the throw. So if you do not change the shifter in any way, but you change the leverage at the transmission lever, what limits the length of the shifter throw to go along with the altered lever at the transmission?
In other words, if the stock shifter throw has a resulting movement of say two inches of the rod end, and you change the pivot arm so that it only needs a 1.5 inch movement, what makes the rod stop at 1.5 inches when the shifter design says it should go 2?

 

[dmention7]

The shifter's throws are determined by the transmission and not by the shifter assembly. That is to say, the position of the lever on the transmission defines the movement of the shifter and not the other way around.

 

[enganear]

^ +1 Well said.
-enganear

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

The shifter's throws are determined by the transmission and not by the shifter assembly. That is to say, the position of the lever on the transmission defines the movement of the shifter and not the other way around.

I'll take your word for it, but I really want to know why. Now I'm going to have to track down an exploded view of the internals of this thing and figure out what is going on inside.

 

[dmention7]

Well, from a design standpoint, if the shifter was determining the position of the transmission components in each gear, you'd have no control over tolerances in the transmission and the parts between the transmission and shifter. What you really care about is that the components in the transmission are positioned properly in each gear, not where the shift knob is pointing.

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Well, from a design standpoint, if the shifter was determining the position of the transmission components in each gear, you'd have no control over tolerances in the transmission and the parts between the transmission and shifter. What you really care about is that the components in the transmission are positioned properly in each gear, not where the shift knob is pointing.

I understand that. The problem I'm having is that there is only the one lever on these transmissions, so it just seems like you could move it too far, or not far enough and end up in either the wrong gear or, maybe even worse, with a gear only partially engaged. I understand that it doesn't work that way, but I'm one of those guys who needs to know what is really going on in there, and I won't be happy until I know how that shift mechanism works internally.
I'm also one of those freaks (lots of us here, I know) who can envision all the internal components of an engine in motion in his mind's eye and track them all. I have just never seen a schematic of this type of transmission, so I have no idea what is going on inside it.

 

[ms3guy22]

With proper fabrication skills, what you say could be done. You would start to see the linkage bulging in the front part of the boot. Personally I would not like the shifter being as low as the short shifters I have seen marketed. I recurved my shift lever to the right and forward. In 6th, it is sticking straight up. A better solution for the brave among us is to follow Rotus' lead and modify the lever on the transmission.

If you defeat the lockout, how do you plan to avoid selecting reverse instead of 1st? I think you would find this to be a mistake.
-enganear

Your kidding right, this is the 3rd six speed i've had and currently the only one with reverse lock out. Not to be a dick but if you cant tell the difference in reverse and first maybe you should buy a auto and build her up.

 

[enganear]

Your kidding right, this is the 3rd six speed i've had and currently the only one with reverse lock out. Not to be a dick but if you cant tell the difference in reverse and first maybe you should buy a auto and build her up.

Geez, I'm just a 30 year state champion autoxing SAE engineer with automotive patents who is trying to help you out. What you do not realize about this particular shifter is that there is no additional L-R spring force to differentiate between the 1-2 gate and the reverse gate. If you cut out that little piece of plastic, you will have absolutely no feedback from the shifter to keep you from selecting 1st instead of reverse. You ask the question and act like a dick when you get a factual answer. Since you are the god of shifting, I think you should definitely go for it.
-enganear

 

[NCZ13]

^ internet pwnage at its finest.

 

[dmention7]

I understand that. The problem I'm having is that there is only the one lever on these transmissions, so it just seems like you could move it too far, or not far enough and end up in either the wrong gear or, maybe even worse, with a gear only partially engaged. I understand that it doesn't work that way, but I'm one of those guys who needs to know what is really going on in there, and I won't be happy until I know how that shift mechanism works internally.
I'm also one of those freaks (lots of us here, I know) who can envision all the internal components of an engine in motion in his mind's eye and track them all. I have just never seen a schematic of this type of transmission, so I have no idea what is going on inside it.

Okay, I see what you're saying. Maybe having someone sit in the cabin and row through the gears a few times while you're looking in the engine bay (with the airbox removed) would help you see what you want to see.

I don't recall how the lever on the transmission functions exactly, but I do remember that I freaked my friend out by grabbing the lever and changing gears from inside the engine bay while he was in the car futzing with his boost gauge (lol2)

 

[enganear]

Okay, I see what you're saying. Maybe having someone sit in the cabin and row through the gears a few times while you're looking in the engine bay (with the airbox removed) would help you see what you want to see.

I don't recall how the lever on the transmission functions exactly, but I do remember that I freaked my friend out by grabbing the lever and changing gears from inside the engine bay while he was in the car futzing with his boost gauge (lol2)

For a stock MS3, what would you say is the easier route to remove the inertial mass? Through the wheelwell or from the top?

And BTW, I checked the Factory Service Manual and it does not cover the internals of the A26M-R transmission. That is covered in manual 1898-1U-06G, probably another $100 on top of the $220 I have already spent on manuals! I think dmention7 has a good idea to get hands on with the linkage at the transmission. You will quickly notice that the detents and stops you feel at the stick are actually in the transmission. If you disconnect the cables, the shifter will just flop about (roughly centered by the scissor spring.
-enganear

 

[Rotus8]

The business part of the shifter gate looks like this.

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

Okay, I see what you're saying. Maybe having someone sit in the cabin and row through the gears a few times while you're looking in the engine bay (with the airbox removed) would help you see what you want to see.

I was already planning on getting my wife to do just that this weekend. Great minds think alike. Of course, what that has to do with either of us, I have no idea, but hey, it sounds good.

 

[dmention7]

For a stock MS3, what would you say is the easier route to remove the inertial mass? Through the wheelwell or from the top?

IMO, from the top is probably the easiest. The car I spoke of above had a CAI installed, and pretty much the entire top of the transmission housing was accessible. I'm pretty sure the battery was still in place, so all you'd have to do is pull out the airbox to get access to the inertial mass.

I'd probably double-check first though, because I'm going purely off of memory here.

 

[Rotus8]

Here's some more pictures. You can see the detent ball in the side of the hole where the shifter goes.

Edit: I think that is the neutral or reverse switch, not the detent.

 

[ms3guy22]

Geez, I'm just a 30 year state champion autoxing SAE engineer with automotive patents who is trying to help you out. What you do not realize about this particular shifter is that there is no additional L-R spring force to differentiate between the 1-2 gate and the reverse gate. If you cut out that little piece of plastic, you will have absolutely no feedback from the shifter to keep you from selecting 1st instead of reverse. You ask the question and act like a dick when you get a factual answer. Since you are the god of shifting, I think you should definitely go for it.
-enganear

What do you want a medal or a chest to pin it on bud. I was not talking s***, it didn't dawn on me that the car would not allow you do this. I was just asking a question, I didn't understand why it had a rear lock out and now i know.
On another note nice pictures but i still don't know how to do what you did to your shifter, please break it down thxs

 

[enganear]

IMO, from the top is probably the easiest. The car I spoke of above had a CAI installed, and pretty much the entire top of the transmission housing was accessible. I'm pretty sure the battery was still in place, so all you'd have to do is pull out the airbox to get access to the inertial mass.

I'd probably double-check first though, because I'm going purely off of memory here.

Yeah, I looked today when I did the BPV crush trick. Lots of stuff to remove to reach the linkage from the top. I believe I will try it from the wheelwell. IIRC from installing my Stebel Nautilus horn, removing the access panel in the driver side wheelwell may give a clear shot at it.
-enganear

 

[enganear]

What do you want a medal or a chest to pin it on bud. I was not talking s***, it didn't dawn on me that the car would not allow you do this. I was just asking a question, I didn't understand why it had a rear lock out and now i know.
On another note nice pictures but i still don't know how to do what you did to your shifter, please break it down thxs

I was trying to answer your question when you definitely dissed me with the automatic bulls***. That struck a nerve because I was double clutching cars with non-synchro 1st gears when you were in diapers. That explains my response and I can certainly put it behind me if you can.

I did not photo document the steps for recurving the shift lever. It is kind of a personal preference thing and I have very long arms. I would not advocate this for anyone who does not feel uncomfortable with the stock shifter.

My problem was with the shifter in 2/4/6 holes, my elbow was uncomfortably rearward. The 5-6 shift also seemed awkward to me because it was so far to the right, away from my body. Add to this the fact that I like to have the 1/2 shift skim my right leg. To address these personal preference issues, I removed the stock shift lever (I recommend the TWM instructions available on their website), carefully clamped it in my vise, taking care not to scratch the spherical bearing, slid a piece of fuel line over the threads for protection, and used a 3' piece of 2" sch40 pipe for leverage. This allowed me to bend the shifter forward and to the left. With the recurved shifter 1st gear is about an inch back from the left side of the console and 6th is about where the stock neutral position is. The shifter is not difficult to recurve with a good secure vise and a piece of pipe.

IF another MS3 driver were to get in my car, he would have trouble finding the gears for a while!

While I am rambling, the thing I really like about the Rotus Linkage mod is that it only affects the fore-aft shift motion. A short shifter means less mechanical advantage in the L-R axis as well and I already do not like the effort required to keep the shifter to the right through the 5-6 shift, it's just unnatural to me. YMMV
Regards,
-enganear