AWR Rear Sway bar settings revisited

[DistantTea]

Did you know you can move the adjuster slider all the way up the bar for racing?

I love that damn bar. Me and Kristi have reevaluated the sway bar setup in front and back. Front bar is going back on, rear bar is so freaking stiff now its perfect on track. Potholes on city roads must now be taken at extreme care... or you'll end up sideways on 3rd street.

I feel like a pioneer doing all these stupidity testings... and I'm sure I could get some of this info from just reading a few dozen books. But at least this way I know why my car does the things it does. Racing is fun again because I'm not concerned with trophies, I'm concerned with progress.

 

[FC3s Boy]

why don't you talk to tony at AWR ?

 

[Natey]

Nice! (thumb)

lol, That swaybar really takes care the understeer.

 

[Mallard]

.

 

[DistantTea]

http://www2.msprotege.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=21702

BWAHAHA!

why don't you talk to tony at AWR ?

I talk to tony all the time. He told me to start soft at the end and work my way up. I'm not entirely sure though that people know you can keep moving up the bar past the bend. You have to take the slider apart in halves and you have to take you end links off completely. Then you can clamshell the slider back together in the space past the bend, in between your trailing arms. Make your AWR adjustable end links as short as possible but don't tighten the ends. Wiggle the end links back into place, get the bolts and washers back on, but don't tighten all the way, leave some play. Then get both left and right in identical positions, then star to tighten. Your endlink heads will need to swivel a little to ge the best position on the tab and slider... then tighten that up too. I'm about 3 to 4 inches from the lateral part of the bar.

Another member here had complained about the AWR bar... saying it wasn't tight enough. He ended up chopping his off at about the same point I adjusted mine to. I forget who that was but they were right about the bar for autocross. If you really want to be aggressive you might need to bring that slider all the way up. Fitment was perfect too.

 

[xelderx]

I have mine as far up as it will go without being between the trailing arms. Once I get my front camber set up correctly for my new Azenis I'll reconsider if the bar needs to be tightened any further. I'm glad that there is still more adjustment I can do. I hate feeling like everything is to the limits and you're still not happy.

 

[sm76]

............ and I'm sure I could get some of this info from just reading a few dozen books. But at least this way I know why my car does the things it does. Racing is fun again because I'm not concerned with trophies, I'm concerned with progress.

Vehicle Dynamics (Phiysics) are the reasons your car does what it does. Learning about these things will greatly increase your learning curve compared to blindly trying settings on a swaybar ignoring all other variables. And learning the physics behind what is going on will tell you why something is happening. Playing in a parking lot after making changes can tell you trends, but it does not tell you WHY things are happening.
Racing is fun because of competition. That is how you measure progress.

 

[DistantTea]

Vehicle Dynamics (Phiysics) are the reasons your car does what it does. Learning about these things will greatly increase your learning curve compared to blindly trying settings on a swaybar ignoring all other variables. And learning the physics behind what is going on will tell you why something is happening. Playing in a parking lot after making changes can tell you trends, but it does not tell you WHY things are happening.
Racing is fun because of competition. That is how you measure progress.

I'm not sure how to take that post. So I'll take it with a grain of salt and pretend you weren't trying to belittle my efforts.

This is an autocross car with a budget smaller than your average sofa price and a driver/engineer that has never touched a wrench before last year. My car is pretty damn fast because of the work I've put into figuring out what I can do with it on my own with the budget I'm under. Cheap mods, free mods, chasis tuning etc... all things I've learned out of neccessity. I don't need to spend four years learning about this "Phiysics" you speak of to make it faster between the cones.

I will be buying a book later so I can do a better job setting the car up once the real suspension gets purchased. But right now I, like most of the autocrossers here, am under a budget that means doing the best with what you got. "Phiysics" be damned.

Oh and I will take any advice or help any real engineers want to send my way. I get tips from people on sccaforums all day long and its really helped.

 

[sm76]

First of all, I'm not belittling anything. I completely understand the budget thing. (I built a 75% prepared Trans Am for ESP last year and am building a Chevelle for CP and am about to start a Spec Miata; all without sponsors. Because of that my autocross budget for the first half of the summer has been entry fees and an alignment.) That is exactly why you need to make informed decisions about modifications. You will wind up wasting a LOT of money using a trial and error method to build a car and 95% of the time wind up with an inferior product in the end. I'm glad you are having fun playing with settings on your car. That's how it should be. I completely disagree with the entire sentiment of the last paragraph of the first post. Knowing why things happen is completely different than understanding a trend of what happens when you change one part or another.
I've seen some of your posts on sccaforums. I'm on there all the time. I applaud you for looking to more experienced people for advice. I do the same thing. There are simple books like "How to make your car handle" which are written by very knowledgable people and easily understood. Racecar Vehicle Dynamics is also great, but quite a bit more detailed. I would suggest you expand your willingness to listen to people on forums to listening to authors as well.

 

[jersey_emt]

DistantTea, how is that bar for daily driving? I'm considering purchasing it after I get my new intercooler. You have the 21.5mm bar right?

 

[DistantTea]

I would suggest you expand your willingness to listen to people on forums to listening to authors as well.

I will. As soon as my budget can get me a $20 book. (crazy)

I spent the last couple bucks of my racing budget to buy new license plate screws after someone stole my plate. Everything else is set aside for entry fees.

 

[DistantTea]

DistantTea, how is that bar for daily driving? I'm considering purchasing it after I get my new intercooler. You have the 21.5mm bar right?

Its good... its very good. I thought moving the slider up that far would have a severe negative impact on city driving but it actually feels rock solid during normal driving. My ground controls are what beats us up driving around town.

Having the bar that stiff does come with some caution though. No dicking around on public roads, and extreme caution in rain or rough pavement I'm sure. The car isn't my daily driver anymore, its my wife's and she is very responsable on the road. Other than that its pretty nice. Taking curbs at angles though will lift at least one tire off the ground FYI.

 

[Mike R]

I have mine set about 6" from the end (inbetween the arms), I had it as far as it could go before having to put it inside the arms. What a world of difference!

The Illuminas are set 4 in the rear and 3 in the front. I drive 4 hrs(140 miles city/highway) a day with this setup. It's amazing. A tad stiff, but damn fun. 3 wheel action! Have to be a bit more careful in the rain, but mine holds quite well, even in the rain.

Still no auto-x's with this setup though.
That bar IS great, and I have only 130 bucks in mine so far....half for a used bar and half for F&R endlinks and adjusters.

Tip: if you haven't already, get some SS bolts for the adjusters. Much easier to deal with than the rusted up stock ones....

 

[bazooka joe]

3 in the front WOW! for the track yes, but daily driving, yikes that's stiff. i backed mine off to 1 in the front and 3 rear, i can deal with that setup for the road.

 

[rustychops41]

Did you know you can move the adjuster slider all the way up the bar for racing?

Just be careful. The swaybar can't do all the work. At some point you'll tear the tabs off your struts. Springs and sway bars work best together. Enjoy!

 

[DistantTea]

Just be careful. The swaybar can't do all the work. At some point you'll tear the tabs off your struts. Springs and sway bars work best together. Enjoy!

Don't worry. I reinforced the tabs with duct tape... ain't going nowhere. (nana)

 

[Mike R]

Don't worry. I reinforced the tabs with duct tape... ain't going nowhere. (nana)

Ha, LOL!

 

[DistantTea]

*update*

Front bar is back on, but I've started to tweak the AWR Endlinks. I don't know how different is on a non mazdaspeed but the endlink bolts were sitting and squashed directly onto the endlink tab, causing all kinds of noises. I went out and got a couple washers and moved the endlink away from the strut a little bit. Works much better now. I was getting suprised binding and it bent one of the endlinks in the front.

I did the same to the rear and added a bunch of nylon washers to deaden sound from the now super tight setup. I might have to extend the end links back there at some time... under full spring compression the bar ends could hit a plastic wheel well part on the drivers side.

So now I have the laser turn-in back but I still have good rotation thanks to fast rear weight transfer. I won't know for sure how that equates to time until the 11th.

 

[Mike R]

Yeah, mine is binding a little bit on the fronts. The strut tab has signs of rubbing. I have spaced the upper out a bit with the washers and it seems better. Mine aren't screwed all the way in, there is about .5" of thread on each end. I'm thinking of making my own spacers out of some tubes instead of the cones that Tony supplies. The cone spacers have some signs of interference. I have replaced my plastic cones with the metal ones from AWR on the bar side of the front.

 

[Lt. Dan]

Vehicle Dynamics (Phiysics) are the reasons your car does what it does. Learning about these things will greatly increase your learning curve compared to blindly trying settings on a swaybar ignoring all other variables. And learning the physics behind what is going on will tell you why something is happening. Playing in a parking lot after making changes can tell you trends, but it does not tell you WHY things are happening.
Racing is fun because of competition. That is how you measure progress.

You can read all the books you want, but unless you actually APPLY what you've read, and back it up with real world testing, It's not going to do you any good.... At least this way Distant actually has REAL WROLD knowledge of how his car handles with these different suspension settings...

Dan