Do You Love Your Mazda? Ditch That 0W-20 Oil!!!

[GJ-Molestor]

batmancx - I think it's insane to base your decision on observing the buying habits of local Walmart shoppers vs. following the recommendations of the automotive engineers who designed your engine.

GJ-Molestor - I've owned both the 2.0L (2003) and 2.3L (2005) versions of the Mazda L engine, and both called for 5W-20. Besides, you don't know the detailed design differences between the Mazda L engine family and the current Skyactiv family, and you don't know what the bearing clearances are.

The skyactiv motor is essentially the Mazda L engine with new pistons, the 4-2-1 manifold, probably a revised cylinder head and direct injection. If you remove the engine cover of the skyactiv and the older 2.5 they are strikingly similar. The block is the same and I highly doubt Mazda tinkered with the bearings specifically for the newer version... thats an uncecessary investment for a brand that doesnt have the money to do that even if they really wanted to. Your older Mazda L engine is specced for 5w20 because CAFE requirements already started to have effect then, so everywhere else in the world both the L and skyactiv engine use 5w30. Its just something to consider.

to be fair, batmancx did admit himself it was stupid and he wasn;t basing his decision on Wal-mart shelves, he was just pointing out an observation......

don;t give automotive engineers to much credit... these are the same ones who designed the CX-9 transfer case and the CX-9 water pumps that leak into engine.... tons of issue....

also the engineers are under tremendous stress to reduce costs anyway they can, you can see all the penny pinching they did, c'mon for example, seriously? giving the wrong size spares to AWD owners ???

and with CAFE fines up from $8 to $14 for every 0.1 mpg over per vehicle , you better damn believe they will do anything to save the company money with their high volume CX-5... just don;t think they have your best interest in mind, they're trying to keep their jobs


at the end of the day, this point is moot, no point trying to convince each other which way to go 0W20 vs 5W30, we're all grown ups, we make our own decisions and just live with it, there's no right or wrong , and in all honestly 0W20 vs 5W30 isn;t all that much different really, we're just beating a dead horse here.

My only issue with 0w20 is that it is not the correct oil for our bearing clearances and it degrades quicker then a thicker oil.

Bottom line, if you dont rev your engine hard and dont have hot summers, you dont really need 5w30 although its not going to hurt at all even in very cold weather.

 

[Monterra]

Ok gj at this point I have to say that I admire your persistence on the topic and it appears you're 'not some weird troll' and i recognize that efficiency was a main motivator in this move to 0w20..but efficiency is a good thing is it not..and until I start seeing some notable uptick in fails as a result of going thin...Ima stay thin

 

[GJ-Molestor]

Ok gj at this point I have to say that I admire your persistence on the topic and it appears you're 'not some weird troll' and i recognize that efficiency was a main motivator in this move to 0w20..but effeciency is a good thing is it not..and until I start seeing some notable uptick in fails as a result of going thin...Ima stay thin

0w20: satisfy the big companies and CAFE

5w30: added protection for your personal investment at the expense of 0.1MPG

Pick your poison

 

[Unobtanium]

0w20: satisfy the big companies and CAFE

5w30: added protection for your personal investment at the expense of 0.1MPG

Pick your poison

Please tell me what good 5/30 does if the bearing clearances are appropriate for 0-20? According to UOA's...it does NOTHING.

 

[GJ-Molestor]

Please tell me what good 5/30 does if the bearing clearances are appropriate for 0-20? According to UOA's...it does NOTHING.

You Mis-worded that a little. The actual question is, what good does 0w20 do for an engine designed around 5w30? Unless you live in steady -30c climates, thats right. NOTHING.

 

[blackcx5]

well I just checked myself, right there in the owner's manual, 0W20 is used for fuel economy for USA and Canada (hint hint CAFE),

everywhere else use 5w30 (I'm assuming this includes Japan, so even Japanese users are using 5w30 ?)

 

[GJ-Molestor]

batmancx - I think it's insane to base your decision on observing the buying habits of local Walmart shoppers vs. following the recommendations of the automotive engineers who designed your engine.

Its actually a pretty good way to tell what oils are best since the good ones are gone and the s*** oils are still in stock.

Especially considering that 0w20 is just about the furthest thing from an engineers recommendation, Ill take Walmart shopping choices with more then just a grain of salt.

well I just checked myself, right there in the owner's manual, 0W20 is used for fuel economy for USA and Canada (hint hint CAFE),

everywhere else use 5w30 (I'm assuming this includes Japan, so even Japanese users are using 5w30 ?)

Everywhere else except USA and Canada, use 5w30. Well there you go, that about sums everything up I think

 

[piotrek91]

Thought I would share my experience switching from the Castrol 0w-20 garbage to Liqui-Moly 5w30. the engine felt much more refined. it ran 10x quieter and smoother then before, no more valvetrain clatter! just the smooth ticking sound of the DI. it revs smoother and overall feels much more solid then before. oil consumption has dropped from 1L every 9000KM to 1L every 15,000+KM.

overall, highly recommend you do this if you live in a hot climate or drive the car hard. your con rod bearings will thank you...

now before i get blasted for this idea, please look up the CAFE requirements and understand why manufacturers slowly started to switch to thinner and thinner oil.

funny,
I had the same impression when I started doing my own oil changes and using the mazda moly oil instead of castrol.

Ever consider that maybe the moly in the oil is what makes the difference in clatter and not the viscosity?

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Oh, so you heard an engine bearing...

That has been my point all along about the GJ guy and his ears and how people know they have "heard" things...

Yea,if you've ever heard one go out it sounded exactly the same. And if you want to save the motor you don't play around trying to test it and possibly ruin the crank. Ad long as everything was done in spec the engine only got a refreshing... could be something in the pto or could be a bad driveshaft, won't know until the shop looks at it.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Have you owned your car since new?

Yes.

 

[piotrek91]

Its actually a pretty good way to tell what oils are best (castrol and Mobil always being in stock = not good)

Especially considering that 0w20 is just about the furthest thing from an engineers recommendation, Ill take Walmart shopping choices with more then just a grain of salt.



Everywhere else except USA and Canada, use 5w30. Where there you go, that about sums everything up I think

That's from the north american owners manual.
0W20 oil isn't really available at a reasonable price anywhere in North America except USA and Canada...

Notice that even 10W50 doesn't extend the upper temperature range the engine can run in...

 

[GJ-Molestor]

funny,
I had the same impression when I started doing my own oil changes and using the mazda moly oil instead of castrol.

Ever consider that maybe the moly in the oil is what makes the difference in clatter and not the viscosity?

Ive never used the Mazda oil so honestly I wouldnt know. Changing to thicker oil made the biggest difference for me but a good quality oil makes a difference past 5000 Miles.

In reality, the only oil that you can trust to safely protect your engine past 5000 Miles is motul.

Yes.

And did you drive the car aggressively, or did you follow some sort of break-in procedure from the start? How many miles did you wait?

 

[Anchorman]

You Mis-worded that a little. The actual question is, what good does 0w20 do for an engine designed around 5w30? Unless you live in steady -30c climates, that’s right. NOTHING.

You say some really sensible things and then you go and undo it all with something monumentally stupid.

 

[GJ-Molestor]

That's from the north american owners manual.
0W20 oil isn't really available at a reasonable price anywhere in North America except USA and Canada...

Notice that even 10W50 doesn't extend the upper temperature range the engine can run in...

So 0w20 is useful only for -40c to -30 weather and thats it? releastically it shouldnt extend past 20c either.

You say some really sensible things and then you go and undo it all with something monumentally stupid.

If you say so...

 

[blackcx5]

can anyone read Japanese ? here's the Japanese 2017 CX-5 owner's manual,

if anyone knows what oil to use, they would know, they designed the damn thing LOL

https://carmanuals2.com/get/mazda-cx-5-2017-106237

 

[CX-5um]

Wait 0w20 and 5w20 are both 20 weight oils by the way I drank whey protein on my way to pick up some weights.

 

[Aznbagel]

Just a reminder that there has been zero evidence posted that the 5w-30 would give superior protection in this engine. Just some tin-foil hat theory about CAFE and regional differences. Please base your decisions (in general, not just about oil) on hard evidence, not what random people post online.

 

[Red MC]

Many are very hoppy and do lack balance in a traditional sense which i typically like when well executed but here are some that actually are relatively well balanced:
Super session from lawsons in warren vt..can't say enough good things about these they punch well above their weight class.
Auburn from knee deep in cali is also very nice, crisp and clean
Grunion from balast (a pale not ipa) also solid

I do enjoy the Ballast Point Grunion. I have not tried the other two but will look for them. Thanks.

 

[Unobtanium]

You Mis-worded that a little. The actual question is, what good does 0w20 do for an engine designed around 5w30? Unless you live in steady -30c climates, thats right. NOTHING.

Okay, please support your proof that it was designed around 5w30.

You do understand the standard main journal clearance for the 2.5L SkyActiv is 0.0007-0.0015", correct? And that the Toyota 22R has clearances of 0.0010 - 0.0022 in, correct?

The Toyota 22R was chosen as an example, as it was made from 1981-1997, is EXTREMELY reliable, as was/is the Hilux that it was put in from 1981-1997, in fact, that is the one thing aside from lack of power that it is known mostly for, and was...wait for it...spec'ed to work with oils in the 30 weight range. Note the main journal clearances and how they differ from the 2.5L SkyActiv...

So what about the SkyActiv makes you think it was made "for a 30 weight oil"? Certainly not the critical dimensions the oil passes through, which, while I am sure will not die because a 30 weight is used, definitely and obviously wasn't tailor made for the 30 weight oil.

 

[Red MC]

My only issue with 0w20 is that it is not the correct oil for our bearing clearances and it degrades quicker then a thicker oil.

Well, the first part of that is conjecture. I'm pretty sure Mazda's engineers know a lot more about the oil requirements of their engines than anyone in this forum.

I think you have the second part backwards. The higher viscosity oil experiences higher shearing forces than the lower viscosity oil, so it should experience more degradation due to shearing. Also, the lower viscosity oil flows through the filter at a higher rate, so it is getting recirculated more often and is staying cleaner. Haven't you noticed that recommended oil change intervals have been increasing even as recommended viscosity is decreasing?

Increasing fuel economy is certainly one motivation for using lower viscosity oil. But so is increasing power and torque. In percentage terms, the power and torque gain is bigger than the fuel economy gain. Even without any CAFE standards to worry about, there are multiple advantages of using a lower viscosity oil, and no real disadvantages if the engine is designed for it. The limiting factor has been engine materials and manufacturing processes. As they've gotten better over the decades, dimensional tolerances have gotten tighter and are more thermally stable, the finished surface roughness of machined surfaces is better controlled, etc., etc. As I mentioned many pages back, with tighter clearances you can support the same loads with thinner films.

Given that Mazda recommends either 0W-20 or 5W-30, I think it's perfectly acceptable to choose 5W-30. I just don't see any technical justification for saying it provides better protection or has any effect on the longevity of the engine.