CX-5 named best compact crossover

[MikeM.]

And it looks like you have misinterpreted his answer, no one said AWD wasn't superior in the snow, it's just a question of degree.

There. I quoted myself from this very thread. AWD is superior, doesn't mean it's not over-rated. I even did a dealer order and specified AWD. Why do you think I won't admit it's not superior?

Are you just looking for attention?

 

[MikeM.]

How far are you from Portland,OR? Those tiny communist states all run together, it can't be far.

About 250 miles to Portland, my mountain cabin is 290 miles. But, for example, Pullman, WA is farther at 400 miles. But Pullman is not much more interesting than most Texas destinations (although you CAN walk into multiple stores and buy killer buds over the counter, legally). None of that crappy Mexican there. It's 100% golden, USA grown and bred, pure and high quality. Unfortunately, Washington still hasn't "communized" marijuana so you do have to pay for it. (rofl2)

In Brownsville, TX (which I understand is named after the color of the weed there), look out for the police state. I understand they have road blocks where your "masters" stop ordinary Americans going about their business and question you about what you're doing, where you're going, where you were born, whether you have any illegal drugs in your car, etc. Sounds worse than Communist China or Russia before the fall of the Iron Curtain. And you think WA and OR are "communist"?

Obviously, you don't know what communism is. We are socialist like the rest of the 1st world nations. In terms of socialism, I would put us nearer Switzerland than Georgia and Louisiana but closer to those States than Sweden, Norway, Germany, Finland and Italy.

Me thinks you don't know the difference between communism and socialism.

 

[MikeM.]

You missed my point. 4WD is better but only a LITTLE BIT better.

He missed your point because his handle (Unobtanium) describes his grasp of this subject. He has spent more hours twiddling his fiddle than driving on snow/ice, yet he thinks he knows what he's talking about.

Other important factors are ground clearance and skill. Driving in snow is like dancing. You are monitoring a lot of things at the same time, all your motions and the cars are subtle and smooth.

Yes. Under "skill" would come the knowledge and thought you engaged to use the shoulder when you used a FWD to climb the hill the 4x4 failed repeatedly. But obviously you also know that sometimes FWD just isn't going to cut it, even with winter tires. Like in this situation (which was 1 mile from my cabin):

Yep, FWD is not going to make it through. You're not getting through this without a REAL 4x4, LOL!

Just ask Unobtanium!

(lol2)

 

[Unobtanium]

About 250 miles to Portland, my mountain cabin is 290 miles. But, for example, Pullman, WA is farther at 400 miles. But Pullman is not much more interesting than most Texas destinations (although you CAN walk into multiple stores and buy killer buds over the counter, legally). None of that crappy Mexican there. It's 100% golden, USA grown and bred, pure and high quality. Unfortunately, Washington still hasn't "communized" marijuana so you do have to pay for it. (rofl2)
You would actually pay for weed? Really? I turned down so much free pot, coke, X, and LSD in college it wasn't funny. And you have to pay for it? Well, consider the drugheads I know very notjealous of you.
In Brownsville, TX (which I understand is named after the color of the weed there), look out for the police state. I understand they have road blocks where your "masters" stop ordinary Americans going about their business and question you about what you're doing, where you're going, where you were born, whether you have any illegal drugs in your car, etc. Sounds worse than Communist China or Russia before the fall of the Iron Curtain. And you think WA and OR are "communist"?
It's a border patrol chechpoint. It exists because limpwristed liberals won't allow the government to properly clamp down on our border while Mexico keeps pumping South Americans into our country to take advantage of your communist welfare programs and your and my expense.

Obviously, you don't know what communism is. We are socialist like the rest of the 1st world nations. In terms of socialism, I would put us nearer Switzerland than Georgia and Louisiana but closer to those States than Sweden, Norway, Germany, Finland and Italy.
I'll pass on their obscene taxes. I think success should be personal, and not "what others will buy for you". Let each to his own ability earn. I mean, what you're saying is similar to me buying a 2.5L and you buying a 2.0L and then "stealing" 15 of my horsepower because "we are equal", lol!

Me thinks you don't know the difference between communism and socialism.

You base your entire sense of freedom on how much drugs you can legally buy. I base it on the US Constitution.

You are deluded if you think WA is "Socialist". The definition of socialism is when a community (or state, or region, or country, or whatever) tasks the people to cooperate and to manage the economy. Think "hippie commune", or "Amish society". In fact, Amish society is a GREAT! example of successful socialism.
Communism, on the other hand, is where an elite few in government positions FORCE society to support the dead-beats within it under threat of violence. It is not cooperative at all. It is being a slave to those who won't/don't for themselves, because "everyone owns everything" and "everyone has the same rights...even if they have no responsibilities".

There are many semantic and romantic differences between the two, but when you're paying taxes and people who don't work who can work are reaping the benefits of your hard labor, that ain't socialism, no-matter how stoned out of your mind you can legally get to feel better about it. No place in our country is "socialist" aside from small communities like the Amish, etc. IMO. Because it's all a bunch of jackbooted thugs that will take your money at gunpoint to give it to the family of 5 with deadbeat parents who spend it all on booze.

Anyway, Seattle is a pretty communist area within WA, and I think they are learning the hard way...
https://www.aei.org/publication/min...staurants-1300-largest-since-great-recession/

Success takes WORK. Not legislating yourself into a position you don't deserve or into rewards you didn't create. You can brag about this or that housing/poverty/schooling statistic all you want, but what the ugly underside of that is, is who is getting robbed at government gunpoint to provide you with those wonderful statistics. It's like living in a neighborhood with 1 rich guy and 10 beggers, and the government forcing the rich guy to buy homes for all the beggers. It's not a successful/good neighborhood! It's a bunch of bums with 1 screwed over successful person.

 

[Unobtanium]

My point remains. I made it around town just fine with AWD. Others with FWD cars and RWD vehicles had accidents and failed to reach their destinations because they could not accelerate up the hills in town. They backed up traffic and were a real problem. I was not. All I had were all-season tires. Nothing special. Nary an issue. AWD was much superior to FWD in my experience, as I got where I was going, internet pundits be damned, and FWD owners did not.

 

[littlebear]

I got the AWD and I put on better snow tires (still all season). I got the Continental True Contact tires and they have better snow traction than the Toyo A23 tires it comes with from the factory.

So what I am reading here is that some are claiming the AWD on the CX5 is "over rated" and not much better than the FWD?

 

[raystafarian]

Geez this thread took a turn. I've never driven in snow

Anyhow, I liked that this review used the touring trim, every other review I watch or read seems to compare the GT to other crossovers' top trim, which doesn't help me.

 

[TheGanzman]

Well, my Dad can beat up your Dad...

 

[Cinoclav]

Hilarious. Nobody drives on a 40-45 degree slope in the snow. In fact, the steepest paved road in the entire world, is a residential road in New Zealand (yes, I've driven it) and it's about 22 degrees at the steepest portion."

Just wanted to note, Baldwin Street, which is obviously the street you're referring to, has an average grade of 35 degrees. Rather amazing as everyone can see below.

As for the ongoing argument, I think the one issue that really isn't being addressed is that of driver skill. Sure, Unobtainium watched some schmo floor his FWD car and the wheels spun. Had that driver possessed any real driving ability in the snow, he/she would have known how to properly drive their car in the snow and very likely would have ascended just fine. I live in the Philly area and once owned a Mustang. We all know just how poorly they handle in the snow, yet I managed to make it around in several snow storms. I understood the limitations and the requirements necessary to drive that car in inferior weather conditions. However, I didn't enjoy it... That car was traded in for a Tribute after about 3 years.

 

[Unobtanium]

Just wanted to note, Baldwin Street, which is obviously the street you're referring to, has an average grade of 35 degrees. Rather amazing as everyone can see below.

As for the ongoing argument, I think the one issue that really isn't being addressed is that of driver skill. Sure, Unobtainium watched some schmo floor his FWD car and the wheels spun. I floor my 400# of tq HEMI powered Jeep and it went just fine, though. Besides, we have all come to the conclusion that I can't drive for crap in the snow, and I had a blast and made it safely everywhere I went on black ice, snow, and slush, like it wasn't even there, on my horribly inadequate allseason tires. So maybe AWD can make up for lack of skill? Or we will have to admit that I'm awesome at driving in the snow? This is a conundrum... Had that driver possessed any real driving ability in the snow, he/she would have known how to properly drive their car in the snow and very likely would have ascended just fine. I live in the Philly area and once owned a Mustang. We all know just how poorly they handle in the snow, yet I managed to make it around in several snow storms. I understood the limitations and the requirements necessary to drive that car in inferior weather conditions. However, I didn't enjoy it... That car was traded in for a Tribute after about 3 years.

Looks a bit shallower than some of the hills I go up, for sure. I think what the difference is, is that these "records" are of "streets" and not "hills on streets", if that makes sense? I just know that's not a very steep incline compared to some I traverse on the roads I live near. Like I said, I'll try to take a picture with something to put it in perspective next week.

 

[fdew]

If you have a smart phone, download a free protractor app so you can measure the angle. I have had this discussion regarding mowing slopes that can be mowed with commercial equipment. most estamates are between 10 and 15 deg steeper then measured.

 

[MikeM.]

35% (not 35 degrees).

Just wanted to note, Baldwin Street, which is obviously the street you're referring to, has an average grade of 35 degrees. Rather amazing as everyone can see below.

Yep, that's the one I was talking about! Thanks for finding a photo. I drove this in 1993 in a Nissan Sentra. Of course photos always make things look less steep than when you are there. I can tell you, this is in the Guinness Book of World Records and it's really steep! No way to get it out of first gear. This road has a maximum steepness of 19 degrees but some people have claimed there is a 6-8 foot section that is as steep as 22 degrees. You can read more here:
http://www.newzealand.com/us/article/steepest-street-in-the-world/

There are steeper roads in the world but they are not open to all traffic (AWD only, anything else is a ticketable offense). I parked my rented Honda CR-V (FWD) at the top of this road and hoofed it:

This is super steep (even walking it with grippy soles in dry weather it feels like your tread could slip out from under you). It's 20 degrees off horizontal with very short sections of 22-23 degrees. I walked this in ~2003 (can you tell, I have a thing for steep roads). Guinness BWR doesn't count it because it's only open to AWD vehicles. The local towing company charges big bucks to extract gaper tourists using a 4x4 tow truck.

So no, Mr. Bigshot, your claim of 40-45 degrees is ridiculous.

I have used slope inclinometers in various Avalanche Safety classes I've had (slope steepness measurement is very important aspect of slope stability). I've also used various smartphone apps and it's quite difficult to get a good measurement just by holding it up and eyeballing it (because of various errors introduced by viewing angle, etc).

 

[MikeM.]

So what I am reading here is that some are claiming the AWD on the CX5 is "over rated" and not much better than the FWD?

There's nothing wrong with the AWD system on the CX-5, I've had it in some really sketchy, steep, super low traction situations and it's performed exceptionally well. Here's one video in wet, loose soil with half worn-out OEM Geolanders freshly wetted by a big puddle at the base of this hill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZCROYEK1DM

Mazda AWD is quite capable but the discussion was about the utility of AWD in general. Unless you're going to be off-road, driving up things like in the video, the extra utility of AWD is over-rated by most people.

 

[76brian]

I disagree that a civic does just fine. It sits and spins and causes wrecks is what it does. My AWD SUV went up the hill just fine.

Let me be more clear:

I was able to go up the hill safely with zero drama.
The FWD car (accord, yota, or civic, I forget) sat and spun as the driver TRIED to go up the hill.

Further clarification:

I got where I was going.
FWD car driver did not.

Sounds like a pretty bad driver to me.

Millions of FWD cars do millions of KM's every winter up here (including me until this year), and if there's an issue, it's 98% of the time caused by whats between the steering wheel and the drivers seat.

I find it laughable your experience with snow/ice is so small that you think FWD is useless in it because of a small sample size of seeing others struggle in the same conditions, when they also lack the same experience.

 

[MikeM.]

Looks a bit shallower than some of the hills I go up, for sure.

Fer sure, dude! Gimme a break. You have some things to learn. Here's a basic one. It always looks steeper in person than in the photo. Way steeper. I've driven it.

I think what the difference is, is that these "records" are of "streets" and not "hills on streets", if that makes sense? I just know that's not a very steep incline compared to some I traverse on the roads I live near.

I'm coming to learn, you just like to argue about stupid stuff. Like it's probably Obama's fault that house Republicans are incapable of electing a leader to fill the Speaker of the House seat. This position is two steps from POTUS but they can't even agree on which one of them could best lead House Repubs. And it's Obama's fault, right? Seriously, these streets are just as steep as The Guinness Book of World Records say they are. They don't average the entire street, they pick the steepest section and measure it with an inclinometer.

Like I said, I'll try to take a picture with something to put it in perspective next week.

Great! Just remember to get some trees in there for reference. Or, you could always drive a stake that's 10 degrees off perpendicular to make it look even steeper.

 

[MikeM.]

Sounds like a pretty bad driver to me.

Millions of FWD cars do millions of KM's every winter up here (including me until this year), and if there's an issue, it's 98% of the time caused by whats between the steering wheel and the drivers seat.

Bingo! Reminds me of an old saying, "If God had meant Texan's to drive in the snow, he would have made cow s*** white!"

I find it laughable your experience with snow/ice is so small that you think FWD is useless in it because of a small sample size of seeing others struggle in the same conditions, when they also lack the same experience.

Exactly! It's like the three blind men and the elephant - each of them has one small experience, with one small part of the elephant (tail, leg, trunk), and then they all argue over what an elephant is like. No, an elephant is thin and ropey, no, it's thick like a tree trunk, no, it's like a snake. LOL! But they are all experts about what an elephant is because they touched one once.

 

[fdew]

Your right a inclinometer phone pp can't be used by sighting. I find something flat such as a board or at least a note book. Lay that on the surface and the phone on that.

 

[fdew]

The Saab 96 was a very sucessful winter rally car

FWD

 

[Unobtanium]

Sounds like a pretty bad driver to me.

Millions of FWD cars do millions of KM's every winter up here (including me until this year), and if there's an issue, it's 98% of the time caused by whats between the steering wheel and the drivers seat.

I find it laughable your experience with snow/ice is so small that you think FWD is useless in it because of a small sample size of seeing others struggle in the same conditions, when they also lack the same experience.

Fair enough, I'm a boss at driving I guess. Was just bein humble and all blaming their vehicles instead of crediting my mad skills for our different experiences.

 

[Unobtanium]

Fer sure, dude! Gimme a break. You have some things to learn. Here's a basic one. It always looks steeper in person than in the photo. Way steeper. I've driven it.



I'm coming to learn, you just like to argue about stupid stuff. Like it's probably Obama's fault that house Republicans are incapable of electing a leader to fill the Speaker of the House seat. This position is two steps from POTUS but they can't even agree on which one of them could best lead House Repubs. And it's Obama's fault, right? Seriously, these streets are just as steep as The Guinness Book of World Records say they are. They don't average the entire street, they pick the steepest section and measure it with an inclinometer.




Great! Just remember to get some trees in there for reference. Or, you could always drive a stake that's 10 degrees off perpendicular to make it look even steeper.

Plenty of trees around. I'll post it up next week. Maybe the roads are not as steep as I think, but I'm sticking to my story until I have photo evidence to the contrary.

Also, yeah, that is my quandry. Photos KILL hills.

Here is the non-steep portion of my road. Pictures of the steep parts to come:

Pretty ghetto, but here is a still from the above video showing the steepest part of the flatter egress/ingress to my property.

Pix of the steep part to come.