The Ohio Random Thread... aka We Should Probably Be Working
- Thread starter THE Phen
- Start date
Yes, Brock is Tokay. Hes been testing his seals for a while now on some of the higher HP cars on MSF and they've proven to do quite well. Voltron (Teddy), ATV freek(Justin), lumberjack and the guy who is doing the compound turbo build are all using his seals. Teddy has been running them since before his motor blew. I believe Nishan is also using them.
Does anyone have a set of H&R race springs for an NB Miata they would be willing to part with?
Does anyone have a set of H&R race springs for an NB Miata they would be willing to part with?
I don't believe teddy was on Brock's seals at that point. The only time his seals from Brock started to leak were after being removed and reinstalled 4 times which Brock advised against on the v1's. The v2's that Teddy was going to install before he blew are a spring design which allow multiple installations because they rebound and are actively pushing back against the head and injector.
I can get springs for like $202 shipped from edge right now... do you want to pay the difference between that and coilovers for me?
I can get springs for like $202 shipped from edge right now... do you want to pay the difference between that and coilovers for me?
949racing will be coming out with coilovers for around $750 fwiw, all new design--not a rebranded coilover. I think they'll do well against FM's vmaxx.
From Emilio of 949:
"Simple goal with the tecna is the best possible ride quality for modestly lowered street Miatas at an affordable price point. Because we designed them to have maximum possible bump travel and controlled damping on rough roads, they end up handling well enough for the occasional autocross or track day. To be clear though, track performance is not the primary goal with the tecna. They are not "race" shocks. Just as the Xidas being focused for competition use bestows them with surprisingly good ride quality on the street with big spring rates, the tecna being focused on ride quality pays dividends in sport driving even with much softer spring rates.
The basic damper config is set, supply chain ready, BOM suppliers and inventory ready. Valving over high speed and high amplitude displacements is nearly spot on. We're now fine tuning the valving to improve the ride over small amplitude, low velocity inputs. Once that's finalized, we hit the green button. We could green light it now and have dampers here by new years but I want to squeeze that last bit of plush from the coilover before I pull the trigger. Pretty confident we can have these here by the end of Q1/14."
I wonder how the street ride will compare to my XIDAs. I have 800/500 and they ride FAR better than my STANCE coilovers did with 9/7k (500/325).
http://m.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=76124
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So basically they're just for comfort and appearance with minimal handling benifits? Not knocking, there are just so many freakin options for everything on the Miata it makes it difficult to sort through the various data and make a halfway informed decision.
So thaaaat's why you bought it from me, to flip for a $5 profit? hahaha
Patrick, you don't know anything about Miata suspension, why not let the Miata guys give John the advice.
I've heard the stock MSM Bilstiens are actually pretty nice. And too bad you're running megatons of HP, you could just use the Toyota injector seals for $1.90 each. I've got a spare set on my bench. 
And happy Thanksgiving and whatnot. Everyone be safe out there!
The toyotas are not a good solution at any power level from what I've seen over time.
The Miata Bilsteins actually are a decent assembly. I talked to Phen a little and he runs H&R race springs on the factory Bilsteins and says its just slightly tail happy during autocross due to the spring rates. I figure I can run them for now until I step to a big boy race ready setup. Combine them with a front say bar and I think it will end up rather neutral. If not I can always run an adjustable rear bar to dial it in. Best part is I can probably get most of my investment back when I sell them.
Keep in mind, when purchasing used suspension components you're purchasing wear items with a limited life before needing to be rebuilt. With a lot of the cheaper setups they often can't be rebuilt. Springs dont really have a wear life like shocks/struts.
The Miata Bilsteins actually are a decent assembly. I talked to Phen a little and he runs H&R race springs on the factory Bilsteins and says its just slightly tail happy during autocross due to the spring rates. I figure I can run them for now until I step to a big boy race ready setup. Combine them with a front say bar and I think it will end up rather neutral. If not I can always run an adjustable rear bar to dial it in. Best part is I can probably get most of my investment back when I sell them.
Keep in mind, when purchasing used suspension components you're purchasing wear items with a limited life before needing to be rebuilt. With a lot of the cheaper setups they often can't be rebuilt. Springs dont really have a wear life like shocks/struts.
So first of all... I hope everyone is having a wonderful Thanksgiving!!!
As far as the Miata suspension goes, the short version of the advice is dependent on what you're going for. If you just want the car to be lower, then springs will absolutely do the trick and you need not read further. Otherwise, I'll save you some time searching on Miata.net and give you what I think are the best options.
I have several problems with the H&R race springs. First, they claim to lower the car 1.5", which is significant on the Miata. To lower the car that much you should be at least doubling the spring rate to prevent bottoming. The H&Rs are only 30-40% stiffer than the OE MSM springs. So, given that you'll be riding on the bumpstops a majority of the time in which case handling and ride quality will both suffer. At the end of the day it is all about travel, and with just H&R springs you lose travel and that is not ideal on a Miata. The other big problem I have with the H&Rs is the spring rates are too close together at 320/275. Miatas like 1.5-2x more spring rate in the front of the car. Just putting H&Rs on a MSM that is otherwise stock would make it very loose. You'd either have to get a bigger front bar, or unhook the rear bar to bring it back to a manageable amount of oversteer.
I wouldn't waste my money on H&R springs, even if it was a temporary solution. The OE suspension is just fine on the MSM and keeping it stock doesn't mess with the geometry or balance at all. Which for a new to you car, is important.
So... Good options time!
The Bilsteins on the MSM are nothing to scoff at. They could easily be the base of a really good suspension setup, but they would have to be revalved to handle higher spring rates. Coilover sleeves can be purchased for the Bilsteins as well: http://fatcatmotorsports.com/FCM_Bilstein_mounts_NA.htm (they can be had for cheaper I'm sure, but I'm not sure which of these would be needed http://www.race-mart.com/Coil-Over-Kits_c_5888.html).
Bilstein revalve ($300, which is a guess) + sleeves ($250) + springs ($300) = roughly $850. In my opinion this is the cheapest option to a really great dual purpose setup. You can pick any spring rate you want (550-350 would be awesome), and you would then have shocks valved specifically to match that rate. But you don't even need to take my word for it... Call Shaikh at FCM and get his advice. He knows a great deal about Miata suspensions and is the man when it comes to revalving Bilsteins.
Otherwise... Flyin' Miata V-Maxx is the only entry level setup worth considering. I think they're in the $600-700 range depending on how they're configured. I've honestly never met anyone who has used these. But for a budget setup they are widely considered to be the best.
Koni Sport (Yellows) and/or Race shocks with Ground Control sleeves and springs is an incredibly popular option. Mostly because it is a budget autocross/track setup which lots of adjustability. You get to pick the spring rate you go with. But this setup is probably $800-1000. Once it was all said and done I had about $1200 invested in my Koni/GC setup between the shocks, springs, bumpstops, and top hats.
Based on what Jess posted, it looks like Emilio will have another good entry level option.
As far as the Miata suspension goes, the short version of the advice is dependent on what you're going for. If you just want the car to be lower, then springs will absolutely do the trick and you need not read further. Otherwise, I'll save you some time searching on Miata.net and give you what I think are the best options.
I have several problems with the H&R race springs. First, they claim to lower the car 1.5", which is significant on the Miata. To lower the car that much you should be at least doubling the spring rate to prevent bottoming. The H&Rs are only 30-40% stiffer than the OE MSM springs. So, given that you'll be riding on the bumpstops a majority of the time in which case handling and ride quality will both suffer. At the end of the day it is all about travel, and with just H&R springs you lose travel and that is not ideal on a Miata. The other big problem I have with the H&Rs is the spring rates are too close together at 320/275. Miatas like 1.5-2x more spring rate in the front of the car. Just putting H&Rs on a MSM that is otherwise stock would make it very loose. You'd either have to get a bigger front bar, or unhook the rear bar to bring it back to a manageable amount of oversteer.
I wouldn't waste my money on H&R springs, even if it was a temporary solution. The OE suspension is just fine on the MSM and keeping it stock doesn't mess with the geometry or balance at all. Which for a new to you car, is important.
So... Good options time!
The Bilsteins on the MSM are nothing to scoff at. They could easily be the base of a really good suspension setup, but they would have to be revalved to handle higher spring rates. Coilover sleeves can be purchased for the Bilsteins as well: http://fatcatmotorsports.com/FCM_Bilstein_mounts_NA.htm (they can be had for cheaper I'm sure, but I'm not sure which of these would be needed http://www.race-mart.com/Coil-Over-Kits_c_5888.html).
Bilstein revalve ($300, which is a guess) + sleeves ($250) + springs ($300) = roughly $850. In my opinion this is the cheapest option to a really great dual purpose setup. You can pick any spring rate you want (550-350 would be awesome), and you would then have shocks valved specifically to match that rate. But you don't even need to take my word for it... Call Shaikh at FCM and get his advice. He knows a great deal about Miata suspensions and is the man when it comes to revalving Bilsteins.
Otherwise... Flyin' Miata V-Maxx is the only entry level setup worth considering. I think they're in the $600-700 range depending on how they're configured. I've honestly never met anyone who has used these. But for a budget setup they are widely considered to be the best.
Koni Sport (Yellows) and/or Race shocks with Ground Control sleeves and springs is an incredibly popular option. Mostly because it is a budget autocross/track setup which lots of adjustability. You get to pick the spring rate you go with. But this setup is probably $800-1000. Once it was all said and done I had about $1200 invested in my Koni/GC setup between the shocks, springs, bumpstops, and top hats.
Based on what Jess posted, it looks like Emilio will have another good entry level option.
