Spun a rod bearing!

mp5build2013 · Sep 27, 2013

On my normal drive home, i took a left turn and my rmps just sped upwards out of nowhere. had to let go of the gas, it felt like it caught the gear kind of harsh. as i rolled to a stop i heard a loud knocking coming from the engine.
sure enough i gave it some gas and as the rpms dropped it rattled. HARD.

So worst case, i broke a rod. best case...? a throttle screw?
why kid myself. im sure i spun a rod bearing. probably overlapped one.

i found a kit on ebay for $300.
i work selling overhaul parts, but the parts for our engine arent very used so we dont even have them in stock.
the good part is i have connections with all local mchine shops.

the best machinest i know, who is the guy i want to do my engine ( hes a honda freak) quoted me $785 if i provide the parts and take him the block dissasembled. there is this other guy willing to do the work for $450 but i dont really trust him.

if im cracking it, im boring it. im not sure if i should bore the cylinders or leave them in std. i will go 25mm on both rods in mains.

Now the question. is it worth it? i have heard using FS ZE internals is the way to go, but i cant find a kit on that engine. should i bore the pistons n rings to 50mm? leave them standard? i have an auto tranny... should i leave it? or swap it out? what else would you all recommend doing while the overhaul is underway?

and lastly...where would any of you experienced guys think i would have some hiccups? or issues of any kind?

how sad, i was about to start my build thread on here... and it looks like it will be an ACTUAL build thread

PS: i work selling engine overhaul parts, i am an enthusiast.. but im not rich, or even wealthy. so please dont tell me to throw k1 rods in, i simply dont have that kind of cash.

this is my D.D. btw.

ap123 · Sep 28, 2013

Hopefully you only spun a bearing which as long as the crankshaft journals are still to spec, it can be fixed on the cheap at home. oem bearings and new oem hardware basically all you need. should be able to do it without taking off the head. if the engine needs more extensive work i would just go with the a used engine. Unless you're going forged its pointless to spend so much on a stock block.

when it comes to Fsze piston unless your willing to invest in a EMS, its best not to get them.

Stock bore is 83mm if i remember correctly. so not sure what you mean by boring it to 50mm, .5mm over maybe i dunno?
The closer to stock specs you leave things the better for a daily.

$800labor only for the machine shop is ridiculously expensive in my opinion, specially when you're doing 1/3 of the work by tearing it down.

working on this engine is very straight forward and simple as long as you're organize there shouldn't be any issues.
Check the link in my signature for info on building this engine.

tweety2300 · Sep 28, 2013

How much do you like the car? Maybe you will get lucky like me and have someone trade a runing civic for it, except I tried driving mine home and sent a rod through the block

If you plan on keeping the car for awhile rebuild it, if you don't just get a used motor

mp5build2013 · Oct 3, 2013

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so i am getting ready to pull the engine out, i am just waiting on my friend to borrow his engine hoist.
the plan is to find a used engine and swap out, keeping my original engine to build.
i plan on removing the transmission before pulling the engine out, anyone have any problems doing this?
i will keep updating, in case anyone cares... as well as for my personal record of any hiccups along the way for future reference.

feel free to comment or suggest anything. its my first time pulling an engine.

ap123 · Oct 3, 2013

It's easier and faster to pull the engine and transmission together at the same time, just remove the intake mani and alternator and set the power steering pump and AC compressor aside you do not need to disconnect any hoses.

Also install the engine and trans together to make it easier.

mp5build2013 · Oct 4, 2013

alright, i will remove them together. i had doubts about removing the tranny bolts without the engine being braced, which is why i wanted to do it inside. But today im going to buy a craftsman cordless impact wrench, so that shouldnt be a problem i dont think. im glad you mentioned the alt. and the intake mani because it looked like it would clear and i was getting ready to pull it like that lol.

what is a good way to check a used engine for workability or reliability, say at a junkyard?
a guy has an engine but its already out of the car, he wants 450 for it car has 75,000 miles on the dash.. he says it works.. but its some random guy so no guarantee and i dont wanna just give him $450 for a ****** up engine like mine.

whatusername · Oct 6, 2013

give him half with a notorized promisary note stating upon completion of install if engine start fine u will pay the remainder. if he dont agree pass on it n go to a junk yard that has warranty

mp5build2013 · Oct 7, 2013

UPDATE:
Ok, so that engine was s***. i decided to take off the oil pan and it was gunky and had tiiiiny chips of metal.
i then went to the junk yards. i only found ONE good engine, he said he wanted $900 with a big smile. when i said its was too expensive he smiled again and said "good luck finding one..its the same engine as the MSP".
I got on ebay and found used engines for about $600 more or less. but thats still a LOT for a used engine...
so yea im gonna do what you all suggested not to do. i bought the overhaul kit off ebay for $304, i figured any new part is going to be better than a used one anyway.
Here is a link to the kit:http://http://www.ebay.com/itm/260694448471?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
since i am not doing anything crazy or upgrading anthing internally, i decided to get a quote from a friend of mine who also runs a machine shop, just less expensive and doesnt build racing engines like the other machine shop i had in mind. he said $500. im going .50mm on pistons n rings and .25mm on the rods (hope it clears at that or ill be buying some extra rod bearings here at work)
I still havnt got a hold of a hoist to pull it out, but its ready to go.. i think?
To keep myself busy while i find an engine hoist, and get my parts in... i am going to paint everything i am taking off, what should i use to remove the rust before spraying them down? or do yall just swipe whatever you can off and spray it?
the machinest also said he would charge me less if i removed the head and took them seperate, so he would just have to machine it down and assemble. but i DONT have a garage, and idk about uncovering it in the open, much less would i know what to do to remove it.
Thanks for you input, or for looking.. ill keep updating.

thuzil · Oct 10, 2013

Hopefully you did not break a rod. If the front of your engine is still in tact you are probably good.

In my opinion you would be better to keep looking for a used engine with low miles. Do not pay more than $400 for a used FSDE. Even out of an MSP unless it still has the turbo bolted to it. If you get it from a reputable scrap yard they will warranty the part, so if it is crap you will just be out our time.

I just checked car-part.com and there are a few wreckers in El Paso with FSDEs ranging from $250 to $600

rit14623 · Oct 11, 2013

mp5build2013 said:
the machinest also said he would charge me less if i removed the head and took them seperate, so he would just have to machine it down and assemble. but i DONT have a garage, and idk about uncovering it in the open, much less would i know what to do to remove it.
Thanks for you input, or for looking.. ill keep updating.

I would hope that he wouldn't charge you for work he's not doing.
As for assembly, is this machinist a mechanic too?

tweety2300 · Oct 11, 2013

thuzil said:
Hopefully you did not break a rod. If the front of your engine is still in tact you are probably good.

In my opinion you would be better to keep looking for a used engine with low miles. Do not pay more than $400 for a used FSDE. Even out of an MSP unless it still has the turbo bolted to it. If you get it from a reputable scrap yard they will warranty the part, so if it is crap you will just be out our time.

I just checked car-part.com and there are a few wreckers in El Paso with FSDEs ranging from $250 to $600

Depends on your area, 190k mile fs in local junkyard $800 60k mile one was 1600

mp5build2013 · Oct 11, 2013

well i just went to car-part.com and they have 3 good engines in my area. One is the $900 one i was talking about, and the other two are $600 and both have over 130k on them. Sadly i think i am forced into doing this overhaul. yea i dont think its a rod, it still ran good, just clanked when coasting.

rit14623 said:
I would hope that he wouldn't charge you for work he's not doing.
As for assembly, is this machinist a mechanic too?

Well when i asked him for a quote he gave me a $450 quote on disassemly, block work and re-assembly. He then later mentioned it would be cheaper if i took off the heads... meaning he was suggesting i do.
as for if he is also a mechanic... he's building my engine, thats what he does. why does he have to be a mechanic? well really hes just putting the heads on, everything else will go on once its back in the car or am i mistaken?

rit14623 · Oct 14, 2013

mp5build2013 said:
Well when i asked him for a quote he gave me a $450 quote on disassemly, block work and re-assembly. He then later mentioned it would be cheaper if i took off the heads... meaning he was suggesting i do.
as for if he is also a mechanic... he's building my engine, thats what he does. why does he have to be a mechanic? well really hes just putting the heads on, everything else will go on once its back in the car or am i mistaken?

Well, it wasn't quite clear what he was capable of.
When someone says they are bringing some things to a machine shop for work, the machine shop people can work on steel pieces used for anything, lawn mower, car engine, farm machine, bridge parts, etc. They may not know how the final product is used. They "can" assemble pieces, but for quality control reasons, a company that has contracted out the machining of steel pieces will usually receive the unassembled steel pieces, double-check the machined parts to make sure they are machined to specifications, return them if there's a mistake, or get them approved to be assembled if they are to spec. Since these machine shops have the equipment to work on metal, they can work on engines and engine parts. The people who work there aren't necessarily mechanics.

mp5build2013 · Oct 15, 2013

Very true tweety, im sure a place with P5's laying around everywhere would have cheap engines, laying around everywhere. you dont see many p5's in my city, and we're the only city for quite a bit of miles. So like the guy at the junkyard said "the engines also fit the mazdaspeed protege, it will sit there till one of those guys comes around". you can fins an srt4 engine out here for like $500 with the turbo still mounted, no problem. civic motors run for like $200 with less than 100K on them. Just not 2.0 mazdas.

I work selling overhaul parts, and personally i HATE dealing with the mechanics. they never know s***. Honestly, 8 out of 10 times they have to call the machine shop to see what all they would need. When the machine shop guys come around they know exactly what they need and they order everything they will need to have that engine running again. When mechanics come in, they as for prices on re-ring kits.... they usually end up taking the bearing, rings, and silicone. In my opinion, a machinest will build the engine better because he knows what kind of work he did on the block and will re-machine anything that may have possibly come out a bit off. A mechanic will put you engine back together saving himself as much money as possible. if anything goes wrong, mechanics blame the machine shop, or quality of the parts.

Anyway, so my engine is in the shop, and i removed my a/c lol. cruise control is gone too but that was no biggie.
just waiting for them to crack it open and tell me how bad the damage is, well really theyre just gonna call me over to go look at it. since i have the intake out im REALLY debabting on removing the VCTS. but i am not so sure how its done, so if i can find some time to do some research before my engine is done, i will remove them.

I also had a question for anyone out there thats even taken one of these heads off.. do the head bolts NEED to be replaced? ofcourse i would love to replace everything on it, but i am trying to get it back together asap and we stock head bolts in Victor reinz, which does not carry them for the fsde. Do these stretch a whole lot?

hornsfan10609 · Oct 15, 2013

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?82884-How-To-VTCS-Removal-and-Porting.
Head bolts are Torque-To-Yield and they must be replaced. DNJ is the only aftermarket supplier for FSDE head bolts. Otherwise there is OEM or ARP studs.

mp5build2013 · Oct 15, 2013

hornsfan10609 said:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?82884-How-To-VTCS-Removal-and-Porting.
Head bolts are Torque-To-Yield and they must be replaced. DNJ is the only aftermarket supplier for FSDE head bolts. Otherwise there is OEM or ARP studs.

Ok cool, so i have to change the bolts...
About the rest though... ARP is aftermarket. Meaning that DNJ is NOT the only aftermarket supplier for headbolts, because there is also ARP. idk why you would seperate those, but yea everything else would be OEM "TYPE" because Mazda would be OEM. I also know that SBI vavletrain components carries these heads bolts, part number- 220-1028. These would be a great example of OEM type.
Thanks for the input tho, i was iffy because Victor Reinz will usually list them if they need to be changed. i guess they just dont carry them at all. We can order arp through jobber price, but i still dont think i need to spend that much on head bolts.

tweety2300 · Oct 15, 2013

Arp makes head STUDS not bolts there's a big difference there

mp5build2013 · Oct 16, 2013

what is the benefit of having a stud over a bolt? studs stay in if it ever needs to be removed again?

mp5build2013 · Oct 17, 2013

Current engine bay pic

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mp5build2013 · Nov 3, 2013

Got my engine back yesterday

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Spun a rod bearing!

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