My New STF project...
- Thread starter Andres3165
- Start date
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- All Mazdas!
Ah rentals...
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- 2012 Touring MT
First day I was too timid, the car is awesome and my co-driving showed it by getting a great time on a course designed for powerfull cars. Today is another day , the west course is all transitions which my car does very well. I need to get the out of my butt and drive balls out.
Thanks guys
Andres
Lets not forget your on the wrong tires
I am hearing all kind of bad things about the bfg's at lincoln. Get some toyo's for day two and make it happen. My buddy in STX Jeff hurst had a set overnighted after the pro because of how bad the bfg's did LOL. Crazy right
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- All Mazdas!
First place here you come!
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- 2012 Touring MT
Lets not forget your on the wrong tires
I heard the story about the tires being shipped overnight. Good thing you have the Toyo's enjoy them the rest of this year since they won't be legal anymore...
Andres
Well the rule change takes place 11/1/15 or 1/11/15 I forget but I will be using them all next year. Also Dunlop and hankook both changed their tires to 200 tw so toyo will do the same. I am not worried. The tw is a number made up from the tire manufacture so they can put whatever they like on the tire haha
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- 2012 Touring MT
That is what everybody is hoping.
Btw you seem to know a lot , I hope you start coming to Nationals Events so we can share information and learn from each other.
Andres
Thanks I am planning to do nationals next year. You should talk to Dave and ask him about the co drivers he does with John in STR. If you want to do a few east coast pro solos you could drive my car
The way I read the rules, the Toyo, and any other sub 200 TW tire, were "outlawed" in the new STREET classes only and has no effect on STC or STF or any other class for that matter.
Read again.... all ST class tires must conform to STREET class rules. To be honest that is how all the classes work. They build upon one another.
he accompanying proposed Street Touring changes are as follows:
Change 14.3:
14.3 TIRES
Tires must meet the eligibility requirements of the Street category with the following additional restrictions:
A. Tires must be mass-produced standard production tires designed for normal highway use on passenger cars. Low volume and/or specialty tires will be specifically excluded below.
A. Tires shall have section widths up to and including the following: STF, STC, STS, STR (AWD) – 225 mm
STX (AWD), STU (AWD) – 245 mm STR (2WD) – 255 mm
STX (2WD) – 265 mm
STU (2WD) – 285 mm
and this is the info under street
13.3 TIRES
Tires must be designed for highway use on passenger cars. Tires may be excluded for, but not limited to, low volume production, extensive availability limitations and specialty design. Tires must meet the following requirements to be eligible for use in Street category. No tire model will be eligible for competition until it meets all requirements of 13.3. Tire models not meeting the requirements by April 30 are not eligible for competition until after the National Championship of that year.
A. Specifications
1. Effective 1/1/14 - Minimum UTQG tread wear rating of 140
2. Effective 1/1/15 - Minimum UTQG tread wear rating of 200
3. Molded tread depth of 7/32” or greater as specified by the manufacturer.
4. Listed in a current year or prior 2 years of the “Tire Guide” and/or “Tread Design Guide” 5. Department of Transportation (DOT) approval.
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Andy Hollis
Member
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- 2012 Mazda 2 Sport
Totally not true. Urban legend. Yes, there is some ability to fudge due to extrapolation since the tires are not tested to the wear bars. But to say it is "made up" is uninformed and furthers the urban legend. Read this. There is also nice write-up on the Tire Rack site in the Tech section.
The Hankook was originally downrated for marketing purposes, since they were using drifting as a marketing tool. In that sport, 140 was the lower limit, and to be viewed as "sticky" one had to have that number. Given that the drifting angle is no longer relevant in the US, they have gone up to what the tire can actually perform at.
Don't expect Toyo to do the same unless they revise the tire itself.
Dunlops ability to make better numbers with the ZII vs the Z1 stems from a recent advance in silica-infused compounding. Same with the Rival. In fact, you'll start to see all the tiremakers being able to provide tires that stick better *and* wear better. Technology is a wonderful thing.
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I trust you and all and I am sure your right but looking over the link you posted I found this. I really don't see what's to stop a tire manufacturer from putting whatever number then want on a tire and sure hope toyo makes the change at some point and if they don't O well I will run the rs3. Also the SCCA rule to forcing people to run a 200 tw is a silly one if you ask me. These new BFG tires I am sure dont last much if any longer then a 140 tw summer tire so whats the point for the scca to pass this rule. It doesn't seem to help anyone only hurts and limits tire choice
"The assigning of UTQG grades is done solely by the tire manufacturer. In many cases, this has resulted in the UTQG grading system to be more of a marketing tool than was originally intended.
It is legal and permissible for a tire manufacturer to give a particular tire line a lower treadwear grade. For example: If the highest treadwear grade in a manufacturer's line up is 600, then a tire line with a lower treadwear test result might receive a grade of 400, instead of the 480 it could possibly receive.
Also, it is common for tires whose treadwear grade is of little commercial value, such as "DOT" racing tires, to be assigned extremely low values - sometimes even zero."
Andy Hollis
Member
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- 2012 Mazda 2 Sport
A tiremaker can put whatever number on the tire only so long as it does not exceed the result of the test. That's what the third line of your quoted text says.
Note also that the extrapolation done (since the tires are not run to the wear bars), is by a specific formula, a list of which the manufacturer can choose from. That also gives some variability between manufacturers, but keeps things within reason. They can't just fudge it any way they want...other than down.
On your statement of Rival wearing the same as 140 tw tires, I beg to differ. Specifically, the Toyo R1R is not even in the same longevity league as the Rival. I've run them both extensively. Not even close. Autocross, street or the track.
Thank you for posting all this info. Andy you're someone I respect and I know you have a lot more knowledge and insider info then I. I will just take your word for it and see what happens with the tire.
Thanks againAndy Hollis
Member
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- 2012 Mazda 2 Sport
Thank you for posting all this info. Andy you're someone I respect and I know you have a lot more knowledge and insider info then I. I will just take your word for it and see what happens with the tire.
No worries.
It's a bit of a pet peeve, as I see this urban legend repeated over and over on the web, when it simply isn't true. Heck, I should write to the Snopes folks about.
Being a rulesmaker for SCCA for 20 years meant I had to be clued in on the reality, not the popular opinion.
Hey Andres i wanted to ask you a question about your seats. From your pictures you look like a shorter guy, and being 5" 4" myself I'm kind of worried about how low I'll sit in an aftermarket seat. Since there is no height adjustment when you swap to an aftermarket bracket how did you accommodate that? I don't have my seat too high over stock, like a few pumps up, but I'm wondering if i would be able to safely adjust to a lowered viewing angle. If i drive with the stock seat all the way down, i can still see but it's definitely a reduced view when compared to 2 or 3 pumps up.
Andy Hollis
Member
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- 2012 Mazda 2 Sport
I'm not Andres, but I've done race seats in a 2...and a bunch of others cars.
You can pretty much set the seat height anywhere you want it by building up the frame to suit. Flat-bottom seats are especially easy, as you can use square or rectangular box tube to build the base as high as you want, and then bolt the seat to it.
Here's how I did mine:
BTW, these brackets are just gathering dust in my garage, if anybody is interested. I have both sides (passenger does not have the riser).
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