Road force balancing

[Dimitrios]

Anyone recommend a good shop that knows how to actually use the equipment?

Would prefer within the actual 606xx zip code area (or souf of 35th street ).

k tyvm

 

[Dimitrios]

Never mind

http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/search/FindLocations.cfm

 

[iracemine]

wow. that is ******* amazing! next time I need tires its with someone who has that top end machine in there store.

 

[Dimitrios]

Assuming that wasn't a sarcastic comment, I agree.

I've realized that my BFGs ended up cupping due to poor multiple balancing.

If you do find a shop with it, make sure they know how to use it.

 

[iracemine]

yeah no sarcasm. I have been burned a few times looking for a good price. But that's when I was younger and I went threw tires like every 6 months. Now I have over 70K on my truck tires and Nicole is approaching 50K on hers. So to have them put on right is very important. But both of us are going to try and get through the winter before we get new tires. assuming I dont get banned from some power happy ***** I am just going to look this thread up then.

 

[LovinMyMS3]

I've realized that my BFGs ended up cupping due to poor multiple balancing.

Cupping
Cups or scalloped dips appearing around the edge of the tread on one side or the other, almost always indicate worn (sometimes bent) suspension parts. Adjustment of wheel alignment alone will seldom cure the problem. Any worn component that connects the wheel to the car (ball joint, wheel bearing, shock absorber, springs, bushings, etc.) can cause this condition. Worn components should be replaced with new ones. The worn tire should be balanced and possibly moved to a different location on the car. Occasionally, wheels that are out of balance will wear like this, but wheel imbalance usually shows up as bald spots between the outside edges and center of the tread.

From here:
http://www.procarcare.com/includes/content/resourcecenter/encyclopedia/ch25/25readtirewear.html

FYI, It happens so occasionally that I've worked with tires for 20 years and have never seen cupping caused by balance issues.

 

[Dimitrios]

Um, Ok

 

[iracemine]

er.....


anyway D when ever you come up to these parts you should let me know, we are having a mazdateam event at my bar. it would be nice to see your car. I mean you. lol. Hope is all doing well.

Back on topic for my truck they sell those harmonic ring balancers. They are supposed to do all that stuff live as you drive. They cost a lot but have only heard great reviews. Best part of all you put them on so no kid can screw it up.

meh.... Let me know how it goes, south side aint to far for me to get a great tire gob done.

 

[sanblaster]

er.....


anyway D when ever you come up to these parts you should let me know, we are having a mazdateam event at my bar. it would be nice to see your car. I mean you. lol. Hope is all doing well.

Back on topic for my truck they sell those harmonic ring balancers. They are supposed to do all that stuff live as you drive. They cost a lot but have only heard great reviews. Best part of all you put them on so no kid can screw it up.

meh.... Let me know how it goes, south side aint to far for me to get a great tire gob done.

When?

 

[sanblaster]

rofl.

 

[Dimitrios]

I'll see about heading up, but there are certain intolerable reasons (i.e. people) why I don't attend the meets. Thanks for the invite regardless.

 

[LovinMyMS3]

Um, Ok

Whats wrong? You made a statement that balance problems cause cupping and I was showing that it only occasionally does. There is usually another cause. Incomplete info doesn't help anybody.

 

[solidtrance]

Back on topic for my truck they sell those harmonic ring balancers. They are supposed to do all that stuff live as you drive. They cost a lot but have only heard great reviews. Best part of all you put them on so no kid can screw it up.

Seems like an interesting idea, are they only offered for trucks because of weight? I remember reading about a guy who didn't bother balancing his tires because the rubber can and will turn on the rim, rendering the bancing useless pretty quickly. If I remember correctly he was pretty serious about auto-x so he had a bunch of data to back up his claims. Seems like this harmonic balencer thingy would solve the problem at the cost of some weight.

 

[iracemine]

at work but let me get some info on this.

here you go. http://www.centramatic.com/Home.aspx

I think its for trucks only, but if I guy used it on autoX maybe its worth looking into, mounting tires easy nothing, balancing is everything. and now with Ds post it seems wich corner matters too.

 

[solidtrance]

The guy I was referring to decided to forgo balancing entirely. His rational was that the balancing will be useless once the tire spins on the wheel anyway. I will try to dig up the thread to post.

 

[Dimitrios]

Whats wrong? You made a statement that balance problems cause cupping and I was showing that it only occasionally does. There is usually another cause. Incomplete info doesn't help anybody.

OK, I don't know where to begin without coming across like an ass (especially seeing that you don't know me, and I don't know you), but I won't let that stop me. So quickly:

1) I wasn't asking for help about diagnosing the perceived cupping problem. Just looking for a shop that has a road force balancer installed with the assumption they know how to use it.

2) Incomplete information is all which will be provided because it is:
a) my option to only provide as much as I wish
b) refer to "a)"

3) To copy/paste information of what cupping is, which in the text suggests that bad balancing "occasionally" causes cupping, while also qualifying it with 20+ years of empirical evidence suggesting it is *never* caused by bad balancing is self-negating. It's on the same contradictory vein as "somewhat pregnant" or "slightly senile".

Certainly, experience is sometimes a wiser/better source of information, but in this case there isn't enough data provided (by me) to evaluate whether it applies.

 

[sanblaster]

youmad?


Your ass better be at Pats.

 

[iracemine]

The guy I was referring to decided to forgo balancing entirely. His rational was that the balancing will be useless once the tire spins on the wheel anyway. I will try to dig up the thread to post.

Ahh. Yeah I dont autoX. I am in a road race setting where I see speeds of 90mph every time around the track so for my wheels to be balanced is very important to me. I dont see my tires ever slipping on the wheel. So my $65 doller M/B job should be fine for the season or two I get out of R compund tires. I did a little autoX in the begining and I had always run about 40+ PSI, and I have never seen any tire slippage (P5 with 90hp). If anything mybe he was using tire combo that were a underinflated tire sized way too narrow and it spinning a little, and in that case the weights used will still work to his advantage somewhat. But yeah in autoX you typicly dont get over 35mph so it would not matter too much to not have them ballanced.

But I think D just wants some street tires mounted up in the most valuable way and with the compident people who will know how to use such a machine and its softwear. If he gives a good reveiw I have no loyalty to one6 I will go anywere I can trust my race budget with. Also I would get my my truck done since I drive over 70 mi a day and want a smoth ride that will extend my suspesions lifetime. Seems like a smart investment. So I will wait to hear what Ds got to say.

in the mean time(couch)

 

[LovinMyMS3]

OK, I don't know where to begin without coming across like an ass (especially seeing that you don't know me, and I don't know you), but I won't let that stop me. So quickly:

1) I wasn't asking for help about diagnosing the perceived cupping problem. Just looking for a shop that has a road force balancer installed with the assumption they know how to use it.

2) Incomplete information is all which will be provided because it is:
a) my option to only provide as much as I wish
b) refer to "a)"

3) To copy/paste information of what cupping is, which in the text suggests that bad balancing "occasionally" causes cupping, while also qualifying it with 20+ years of empirical evidence suggesting it is *never* caused by bad balancing is self-negating. It's on the same contradictory vein as "somewhat pregnant" or "slightly senile".

Certainly, experience is sometimes a wiser/better source of information, but in this case there isn't enough data provided (by me) to evaluate whether it applies.

1. You said cupping caused yours. I was simply posting extra info in regards for those that follow.

2. So nobody else can add anything?

3. In no was was it self negating. I posted somebody elses information, followed by my own.

You sure have a negative way of looking at things, and folks want you at their party?

 

[solidtrance]

At the end of the day I'm sure that he know what he is looking for, and I agree that balancing is one key to a smooth ride. I was just bringing up the other point of view to stimulate a little conversation and (hopefully I can) learn a little in the process. Still looking for that thread, I remember being very surprised by the data and I think there was even a video that showed the tires before and after a run (with obvious slippage). This guy was running an 8, so not exactly a tq or hp monster.

not exactly what i was looking for but in the neighborhood:http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/ser...00034000001000038000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes
Closer:http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=3281870&postcount=470