Tired of blown engines/turbos? How about a CAL?

[Silver Ecstasy]

Back in the day, there was a successful Class Action Lawsuit against GM and Dexcool. GM was using Dexcool coolant which in turn was dry-rotting the Lower Intake Manifold gaskets. The consequence would involve coolant leaking into your oil supply, along with ruining my oil pump. The service repair cost would range from $800-$1500 depending on independent shops to dealership appraisals. I'd had the repair done on both my 94 Grand Am and my 03 Grand Am, and it plagued all GM vehicles equipped with the 3.1 liter to 3.4 liter V6 engines used in the Grand Am/Alero/Malibu. The same engine is used today in the last body Chevy Equinox/Pontiac Torrent and it's easy to spot the failure. Take the oil cap off and you'll find a nice milky residue underneath the cap.

My point is this:

We may not have much out-of-pocket expenses with faulty engine/turbos (except for those with voided warranties due to modded engines) but Mazda can only be doing 1 of 2 things:

-Researching and fixing the flaw, to be announced in an upcoming recall
or
-Researching a patch, without any guarantee of a long-term fix and inadvertently screwing us over in the process for anyone interested in keeping our beloved MS6/MS3/CX7's.

While Mazda continues to operate VERY quietly and privately, we remain in the dark entirely. I even got a chance to speak with a respected technician at my Mazda dealership. When I inquired on a downpipe and how it might affect the car, his answer was simple - Mazda knows there's major issues with the engines and turbos and people shouldn't be giving them any reasons to NOT warranty cars because of aftermarket equipment.

Now I know all about the magnuson-moss act but let's be honest, so far, they could care-less.

A class action lawsuit might be the ticket to really getting the ball moving on this fix, don't you guys think??

 

[tunersteve]

After discussing this with Mike, it's a viable option. I have done some research regarding the turbos and PCV system that we so patiently wait for, and this may be the only leverage we as owners have.

 

[714ms3]

This topic has popped up in the past, and my take on it is this:
1) We don't necessarily have any outstanding proof/evidence that every MS3 will fail at some point in time do to a specific design flaw - just theories.
2) They give you a warranty for a certain period of time, and you chose whether to buy the car with said warranty, or to buy something else. When you make the conscious decision to buy, you have to take in to consideration that your car may (and probably will) have problems after the warranty is up (very much like buying a computer).

I guess at the end of the day, nothing will last forever, and you have to have fun with it while it lasts. If you chose to mod the car, and you have subsequent problems, regardless if there is a design flaw or not, then you must accept the consequences. Your point about talking to the tech about adding a downpipe is a mute one because it directly violates the terms and conditions of the warranty.
I personally will be selling the car before the warranty is up, mainly because I rarely keep a car for more than 3 years, and if the car really is a ticking time bomb then I want to sell it before it goes boom.

 

[creedns]

I am still waitin to get my car back after almost 4 months =/ i had an injector seal start to leak which in turn ****** up alot of other stuff resulting in almost 6k in repairs and because of mods mazda wouldn't warranty it even though the parts that were affected were bone stock. Yeah **** you mazda

 

[tunersteve]

This topic has popped up in the past, and my take on it is this:
1) We don't necessarily have any outstanding proof/evidence that every MS3 will fail at some point in time do to a specific design flaw - just theories.
2) They give you a warranty for a certain period of time, and you chose whether to buy the car with said warranty, or to buy something else. When you make the conscious decision to buy, you have to take in to consideration that your car may (and probably will) have problems after the warranty is up (very much like buying a computer).

I guess at the end of the day, nothing will last forever, and you have to have fun with it while it lasts. If you chose to mod the car, and you have subsequent problems, regardless if there is a design flaw or not, then you must accept the consequences. Your point about talking to the tech about adding a downpipe is a mute one because it directly violates the terms and conditions of the warranty.
I personally will be selling the car before the warranty is up, mainly because I rarely keep a car for more than 3 years, and if the car really is a ticking time bomb then I want to sell it before it goes boom.

While I agree with your points, that doesn't change the fact that Mazda now knows that we have an inferior PCV system and something needs to be done. On top of that, the K04 turbo has a tremendously failure rate, which leads to more headaches. Both of these problems are found on 100% stock vehicles, and even those that are modded, the same issue arises.

Mazda really needs to move things forward with an ADEQUATE repair, or issue a recall to get this fixed.

 

[s-retire]

A Little Help Here

If you chose to mod the car, and you have subsequent problems, regardless if there is a design flaw or not, then you must accept the consequences. Your point about talking to the tech about adding a downpipe is a mute one because it directly violates the terms and conditions of the warranty.

Could you provide the language in the warranty that you refer to?

 

[bigdaddy]

I do understand that the engines have problems that Mazda should clear up, however, maybe it is sometimes brought about by the driver of the vehicle. These cars are turbocharged, and that makes them much more vulnerable to blowing up because you have a lot of idiots that mod the hell out of em, and don't properly care for these engines. I've seen a whole bunch of people that make videos and they rev it to redline right after a cold start. Like i said earlier, these cars require for more care because of the turbo, and they aren't exactly designed to push 18+ PSI without supporting mods/a rebuilt turbo. Most people here, I have to beleive take good care of their cars because they are enthusiasts.

 

[8.5MS3]

Could you provide the language in the warranty that you refer to?

paraphrasing of course:

if a genuine mazda part is replaced with an aftermarket part of equal or better quality and the new part results in the failure of another oem component, that component is not covered under warranty.

they basically have you by the balls with this statement

 

[MSMS3]

Class Action scenario: Suit gets filed. Wait five years for the lawyers to run up a huge bill. Then you get a notice of the settlement. Mazda wants to pay the lawyers off and throw us a little bone. Court finally approves settlement after lawyers run up even more bills.

Class Action outcome: Typically you get a coupon good for some accessory you really don't want, or a check for $10 or so, and the lawyers get millions for running up all that huge bill. By then the problem we sued over has long since ceased to be relevant and models have changed many times.

I don't have the time to wait or the desire to put almost all of the money in the back pocket of some group of ambulance chasers that don't care about us or Mazda.

Besides, whether we mod these cars or not, this is a high performance limted edition car. The typical purchaser is a 20 something guy (I'm a 59 year old auto enthusiast with a realistic view of how the world works). The jury is not going to think purchasers and users of these cars are saintly little ole grandmas just driving to the grocery store and back.

Just one opinion.

 

[oaklandopen]

Just one opinion.

i would say a good one at that. it's very realistic.

 

[Bonafide_Spd3]

Sucks, kinda makes me wanna get rid of the speed3

 

[ms6acton]

Class Action scenario: Suit gets filed. Wait five years for the lawyers to run up a huge bill. Then you get a notice of the settlement. Mazda wants to pay the lawyers off and throw us a little bone. Court finally approves settlement after lawyers run up even more bills.

Class Action outcome: Typically you get a coupon good for some accessory you really don't want, or a check for $10 or so, and the lawyers get millions for running up all that huge bill. By then the problem we sued over has long since ceased to be relevant and models have changed many times.

I don't have the time to wait or the desire to put almost all of the money in the back pocket of some group of ambulance chasers that don't care about us or Mazda.

Besides, whether we mod these cars or not, this is a high performance limted edition car. The typical purchaser is a 20 something guy (I'm a 59 year old auto enthusiast with a realistic view of how the world works). The jury is not going to think purchasers and users of these cars are saintly little ole grandmas just driving to the grocery store and back.

Just one opinion.

well said sir

 

[714ms3]

Could you provide the language in the warranty that you refer to?

I think somebody else did a fine enough job of that. You have to accept the consequences of your actions. The bottom line is that the car was built from the factory to perform on it's factory built specifications. Altering any component of that can upset the balance of the engine in any manner of unknown ways and for any number of unknown reasons.
You know what the options are. You either put up and shut up, or sell the car for something else. Very simple.
I don't want to come across as a hypocrite - I have mildly modded my car. However, I do understand the risks associated with doing so.

 

[SomnoSpeed3]

If the local Subaru dealer will give me decent trade value, I'm getting a new WRX. And I've only had my MS3 since March. I can't justify driving my family around in such a ticking time bomb that is also likely to cost me thousands any day now.
Congrats Mazda, you lost another one.

 

[s-retire]

Paraphrased or exact transcript, either way points to the responsibility of Mazda NAO

paraphrasing of course:

if a genuine mazda part is replaced with an aftermarket part of equal or better quality and the new part results in the failure of another oem component, that component is not covered under warranty.

they basically have you by the balls with this statement

That statement is most likely carefully written to be compliant with Magnusson Moss. The issue is burden of proof. Was the replacement part the cause of the other OEM component failure? The burden of proof lies with Mazda NAO, not to the car owner to prove it wasnt.

The only way they have you by the balls is if you roll over and show them youve been neutered. Either way theyve got nothing.

Under what circumstances is it reasonable to believe that the advertised 18 hp increase from a MSCAI would be the cause of the motor going pop? Read the replacement part section of the warranty manual. Youll see that Mazda isnt in compliance.

It is good that people want to hold Mazdas feet to the fire over the lack of warranty support. Id be the first in line as a party to injured class if I werent already in the middle of an individual case.

I think somebody else did a fine enough job of that.

Not really

I don't want to come across as a hypocrite - I have mildly modded my car. However, I do understand the risks associated with doing so.

The hypocrisy lies with Mazda NAO, sir!

People arent looking very hard if you dont see that stock motors blow (http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123730901). In my case Mazda NAO wants me to believe that the first sign of a sudden loss of oil is a rod with a break in the middle. It is the people that lie down and accept an unfounded opinion from Mazda NAO that make it more difficult for the rest of us with legitimate claim.

 

[CWPspeed3]

If the local Subaru dealer will give me decent trade value, I'm getting a new WRX. And I've only had my MS3 since March. I can't justify driving my family around in such a ticking time bomb that is also likely to cost me thousands any day now.
Congrats Mazda, you lost another one.

oh common, these cars arent ticking time bombs, just dont do anything stupid to cause it to blow up. as long as you dont stroll into the dealer with all your mods on it would be covered under warranty (assuming its new). Subaru would be the same way i imagine.

Not to thread jack (too much) are you coming to the fun run on saturday? we start at north territorial and 23.

 

[SomnoSpeed3]

I bought my car used and do not have all the oil change records so yeah, if it blows, I'm f$&ked. I did not research this car or this company well enough before I bought it. Had I known about Mazda's disgusting practices about voiding warranty and refusing to take responsibility for it's engineering mistakes, I would have NEVER bought this car.
With the AP I have, no way Mazda covers a blown motor anyway. My other mistake is thinking you could have AP and warranty at the same time. Nope. Not for a blown motor anyway.
I love the car but not worth the hassle. Tired of having to shut it off while in the drive-thru so I don't kill the person behind me my thick, white smoke cloud coming out of my exhaust. What a joke.

As for Sat. I have to work. Thanks for the invite though, sounds fun.

 

[tunersteve]

I bought my car used and do not have all the oil change records so yeah, if it blows, I'm f$&ked. I did not research this car or this company well enough before I bought it. Had I known about Mazda's disgusting practices about voiding warranty and refusing to take responsibility for it's engineering mistakes, I would have NEVER bought this car.
With the AP I have, no way Mazda covers a blown motor anyway. My other mistake is thinking you could have AP and warranty at the same time. Nope. Not for a blown motor anyway.
I love the car but not worth the hassle. Tired of having to shut it off while in the drive-thru so I don't kill the person behind me my thick, white smoke cloud coming out of my exhaust. What a joke.

As for Sat. I have to work. Thanks for the invite though, sounds fun.

If you're seeing smoke, take the AP flash off, and any other easy to remove mods, then take it to the dealer and have them look at it. I'm speaking from experience here. The burden of proof is on the dealer to show you modified the car and they have to provide proof of it. A hunch won't hold up.

I also think while many of us may not have blown motors, the smoking turbos IS happening to plenty of stock vehicles, most notably CX-7s and MS6's.

 

[CWPspeed3]

I bought my car used and do not have all the oil change records so yeah, if it blows, I'm f$&ked. I did not research this car or this company well enough before I bought it. Had I known about Mazda's disgusting practices about voiding warranty and refusing to take responsibility for it's engineering mistakes, I would have NEVER bought this car.
With the AP I have, no way Mazda covers a blown motor anyway. My other mistake is thinking you could have AP and warranty at the same time. Nope. Not for a blown motor anyway.
I love the car but not worth the hassle. Tired of having to shut it off while in the drive-thru so I don't kill the person behind me my thick, white smoke cloud coming out of my exhaust. What a joke.

As for Sat. I have to work. Thanks for the invite though, sounds fun.

Buying a used car is always a tough situation. You could leave the MSCAI on and just flash the car back to the stock map and unhook the AP and take it in saying its smoking. If you have the oil change records from when you bought it at least that should help. You cant be responsible for what the previous owner did. I know the dealer will probably see it that way but it may be worth a shot. Anyway good luck with your situation. If you do end up getting the WRX we will be doing fun runs again in the spring you should still check it out.

 

[8.5MS3]

Buying a used car is always a tough situation. You could leave the MSCAI on and just flash the car back to the stock map and unhook the AP and take it in saying its smoking. If you have the oil change records from when you bought it at least that should help. You cant be responsible for what the previous owner did. I know the dealer will probably see it that way but it may be worth a shot. Anyway good luck with your situation. If you do end up getting the WRX we will be doing fun runs again in the spring you should still check it out.

DONT DO THAT! All the tech has to do is plug in his obd scanner and he can see the AP is installed. Cobb's stock map is not the same as Mazda's. the only way to cover your tracks is to completely unistall and unmarry the ap from the car. This puts the original map that took 45 min to copy back onto the car and removes all of cobb's software on your ecu