ABS and brake warning lights on... but after a break-in

[mark2000]

Here's an odd one. Lots of posts here about the ABS and brake warning lights coming on due to bad sensors. In my case, my car got broken into (only my $20 XM radio was taken, everything else was there, they must have jimmied a lock). But when I found out I'd been ripped off and started the car, the ABS and brake lights were on. They were never on before... I have owner this P5 2003 since March, and it has 100,000 KM on it.

I am wondering a few things...

- if the person who got into the car jimmied the lock, is there anything in the door panel that could have set the lights off by damaging it? i.e. wires

- How do I reset the codes by pulling a fuse (not by disconnecting a battery - too much trouble at this point). I have read that it is the 60 AMP fuse, but I'm not sure, can anyone confirm?

- Lastly, are these cars known as being easy to jimmy? If so, I might see myself investing in a car alarm because I park on the street.

I have the diagnostic manual on how to read ABS codes, but I would rather reset the computer and see if the lights still show up. It could be pure coincidence that I got broken into and the lights went on.

Thanksx all.

 

[MaxPower]

I'd start by assuming it's a coincidence and checking the brake fluid level.

 

[mark2000]

Sorry but of course I checked the brake fluid level. It was nearly full. I just had a regular top-up done in July...

How do I reset the computer by pulling a fuse?

 

[gimpo2]

Why don't you disconnect the battery? How is loosening a bolt too much trouble?

 

[mark2000]

Got the codes

OK, I have disconnected the battery, that did not clear the lights or codes. Checked fluid and ABS fuse, both OK.

So I grounded the terminal pin in the diagnostic box to get the ABS warning light codes. I got:

47, 51, 13.

Indicating: Right rear wheel ABS sensor.

Cleared the codes by pressing brake pedal 10x. Started car again and 47 & 51 are gone, but 13 won't disappear. ABS/brake lights won't go off even after driving around. Checked codes again after driving and 47/51 are still gone but 13 persists.

Is 13 going to persist until I get the right-rear wheel ABS brake sensor replaced, or is it something else?

Thanks.

 

[P-Funk!]

Try cleaning the sensor and then replace it if you still have a light after three starts (when it clears itself).

 

[P5Rydah]

does it immediatly come on when you start it? my wife has a mountaineer and we've had troubles with the abs sensors going out. has one out right now and sometimes when you start up the abs light isn't on for a few minutes untill after you pump the brakes a few times and i guess it takes its time for the system to recognize that the sensor is bad.

if it only happened after the car was broken into then it could be something electrical. bad thing about the sensors getting checked you almost have to take it to a brake shop

 

[mark2000]

Try cleaning the sensor and then replace it if you still have a light after three starts (when it clears itself).

Ooo...

Now I am really incensed! I was going to try cleaning it, so I went ahead and started the process...

So I pulled off the side panel in the trunk and on the inside of the car on top of the wheel well, I see what I assumed to be a wire going to the sensor. It was a black wire, with the sensor connector (that is, on the inside) being white. It was held down by a silver piece of foamy tape.

So I got out the spare tire jack and the wrench included with the spare tire to take off the wheel so I could see the sensor more closely and then try to clean it off.

After spending about an hour trying to get this damn inside panel off, guess what... I can't get the wheel off. I have tried EVERYTHING, the lug nuts are all too tight. Not one will come off. I just had the tires changed in August, and there is nearly NO evidence of rust on the outside... I am at a loss... God forbif I ever get a flat...

I am so close to being able to clean off the sensor and see if that fixes it but I just can't get the tire off! Ideas?? Is this black wire thingie even the right thing I should be looking at?

 

[bucksatan]

Spray down the wheel nuts with some penetrating oil. Someone can recommend one that won't destroy your wheels.

As for the wires, I have no idea. I do know that the ABS sensors for a drum brake protege work fine for a disc brake protege, and are a lot cheaper in case you end up having to buy one.

 

[mark2000]

It's a P5 with 4 wheel discs... I thought they all had four wheel discs...

Could I start with WD40, would that do the job?

It's just that--well, if they were stuck on due to rust, I would think that I would SEE the rust, but I don't. It's totally clean around the lug nuts.

 

[pasadena_commut]

I have tried EVERYTHING, the lug nuts are all too tight. Not one will come off. I just had the tires changed in August, and there is nearly NO evidence of rust on the outside... I am at a loss...

This is why, as soon as the car gets home from any shop work where the wheels came off, unless I have seen with my own two eyes the lug nuts adjusted with a torque wrench, I assume they are over torqued, and loosen them up and retorque them myself. It usually just takes a couple of minutes. This also helps if you run into an idiot who has torqued them down to an insane value with an air wrench. lf you can't get them off in your driveway, there is no way in hell you are going to be changing a flat yourself on the side of the road (in the rain, probably). So you can take the car back immediately and get it done right.

 

[MaxPower]

To get the wheel off, you can get a cheater pipe for the wrench that came with the car, or buy a breaker bar and correct-sized socket (19mm?).

 

[bucksatan]

It's a P5 with 4 wheel discs... I thought they all had four wheel discs...

Could I start with WD40, would that do the job?

It's just that--well, if they were stuck on due to rust, I would think that I would SEE the rust, but I don't. It's totally clean around the lug nuts.

Yes, all P5s have disc brakes. But some of the proteges had rear drums. The ABS sensor for those work fine with the disc brakes, and is a lot cheaper. There was a thread on TOprotege about it.

 

[mark2000]

Guys... this is great...

I guess the next step is to just get that wheel off. Will I be able to see the ABS sensor at that point or is there more to do... hopefully it won't end up being in some other place I can't see it... does anyone know?

I hope to be a P5 expert like y'all soon enough and able to answer others' questions. This is very helpful, thanks.

 

[Pauljp]

You can check your sensor without removing the wheel.
Put an ohm meter across the two wires on the connector going to the sensor.
You should read approx 1400 ohms (1.4kohm).
Then select AC millivolts on the meter and spin the tire.
You should see approx 300 millivolts AC depending on how fast you spin the tire.
If you see all this, then your sensor is fine and working properly.
See my write-up on this page.

 

[mark2000]

One other thing that crossed my mind, and because I have read some reports of it here ... is that low brake pads can also cause the lights to go on. I have been told my rear pads need replacing very soon.

Could that be the cause, and would there be a diagnostic code for that? Could the fact that the pads were too low impact or damage the sensor in any way?

Thanks.

 

[Pauljp]

The only way that I can see worn pads causing the light to come on is because your piston would be further out than normal, causing the fluid level in the reservoir to become lower, tripping your brake light. But you have checked your fluid level so I don't think that is it.
I have found that 90% of the time with anything, not just cars, that problems arise because of dirt or rust. Take it apart, clean it up, put it back together and usually the problem goes away. The other 10% is because of physical damage.
As I say, you can check which sensor is bad without removing your wheels.

 

[mark2000]

I still haven't found out if the problem I am having is the sensor, but I did call Mazda Service (in Canada) to ask for a quote.

They said the rear right wheel sensor would be $236 for the part and $120 for labour. Plus a diagnostic fee, if I don't know what the problem is for sure and need them to diagnose it.

With tax, that's a $500 fee just for one sensor. Are they serious? Is this right? I knew the part was expensive, but $236 - um... uh-uh.

 

[slavrenz]

I still haven't found out if the problem I am having is the sensor, but I did call Mazda Service (in Canada) to ask for a quote.

They said the rear right wheel sensor would be $236 for the part and $120 for labour. Plus a diagnostic fee, if I don't know what the problem is for sure and need them to diagnose it.

With tax, that's a $500 fee just for one sensor. Are they serious? Is this right? I knew the part was expensive, but $236 - um... uh-uh.

That sounds about right for the dealership - the part itself isn't cheap, and the figure an hour of labor at $120/hour. Plus they'll probably charge you $80-100 to clear your codes...are you beginning to see why not too many of us like others working on our cars?

As for the brake pads, low pads on our vehicles would not trigger your ABS light. Some cars have a small metal piece embedded in the brake pad that, as the pad wears down, it gets closer and closer to a sensor mounted near the caliper. Eventually, the pad will where down to the point where these two things will make contact, and you will get a light signaling that it's time for new pads.

You're not gonna find that on an Econo-box P5 tho

 

[mark2000]

That sounds about right for the dealership - the part itself isn't cheap, and the figure an hour of labor at $120/hour. Plus they'll probably charge you $80-100 to clear your codes...are you beginning to see why not too many of us like others working on our cars?

As for the brake pads, low pads on our vehicles would not trigger your ABS light. Some cars have a small metal piece embedded in the brake pad that, as the pad wears down, it gets closer and closer to a sensor mounted near the caliper. Eventually, the pad will where down to the point where these two things will make contact, and you will get a light signaling that it's time for new pads.

You're not gonna find that on an Econo-box P5 tho

Well, on my Saturn is was the same thing. Parts and labour were pretty specific on Saturns and it was always expensive so I was pretty active on the boards there and replaced many sensors and solenoids and minor annoyances by myself. I thought with this newer, more common car, these sort of "proprietary" maintenance issues would be gone, but I can see they are not, and they are even worse.

I have since checked out the ABS codes again and 13/47 are showing up. Both pointing exactly to the Right-Rear. I'm going to get a multimeter tonight and start testing myself.

There's NO WAY I'm going to pay $500 bucks for that POS if I can avoid it. That's just bull-kak.

As for the low-pads issue - I was just thinking that perhaps the low pads or worn rotors might cause the sensor to malfunction because as I understand it, the sensor needs to be a certain distance from the rotor, and perhaps bad brakes might be causing the rotor/sensor clearance to be out of spec. Is that a possibility I wonder...