AP: Why I should, Why I shouldnt?

[mazdaspeedster3]

Exactly that... Does the ECU really learn the tune and go back to stock performance or does the AP work for the MS3? My buddy just got his for his Speed6 and it has made incredible improvements to the cars power band. Will I get these results with a MS3 and for long term?

 

[Nliiitend1]

I've had mine for over two weeks, and the car still pulls like a raped ape just like it did after I installed it.

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

Rumor mill has it that after 3 or 4 weeks it goes back to stock power, the ECU's in our cars are adaptive and learn the tune.... Rumor, that is why I am trying to get some confirmation.

 

[AMS38U]

i havent noticed that, mine still HAULS BOOTY and spikes that lovely 22 everyonce in a while

 

[john blutarski]

I think the only thing that goes back to stock is your butt dyno as we always get used to whatever power level we're at and then want more.

 

[RC08MS3]

idk, when i first install the tune it pulls like a rapped ape, and then after i give it some driving time it start to run like shizta and i end up putting the stock tune back on. i think it runs better at first because its leaned out,and takes the ECU a little while to relearn the trims and become rich again. I need to get my Front mount and see if it kills the horrible KR im getting.

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

Interesting. Does it need to be plugged in all the time or just for the tune and unplug? Also, you can just let it program for "special occasions" i.e. Cruise night or something and then put it back to stock for DD?

 

[Sport6]

Interesting. Does it need to be plugged in all the time or just for the tune and unplug? Also, you can just let it program for "special occasions" i.e. Cruise night or something and then put it back to stock for DD?

You dont have to have it plugged in, you do if you want to use the data monitoring and performance tests.

You can change your maps when you would like, just have the maps loaded on to the AP and then change them at will.

Though not sure if its true but I have heard that rumor of MAX of 100 flashes? (ECU MAX not AP)

 

[COBB Tuning]

Rumor mill has it that after 3 or 4 weeks it goes back to stock power, the ECU's in our cars are adaptive and learn the tune.... Rumor, that is why I am trying to get some confirmation.

Since the AP overwrites the values inside the ECU and the tables become whatever we change them to, there is no way for the ECU to go back to stock unless you flash it (re-write) back to stock.

The adaptiveness of the ECU is not confined to the Mazda ECU but OBDII ECUs in general. This adaptiveness is the bane of offset devices (piggybacks). Essentially with a piggyback you want to alter the value of a given load point inside the ECU. Let's say IDC (injector duty cycle) at 4,000rpm is 50% just for argument's sake.

Now, we have a bigger turbo or we increase boost pressure, we have to increase IDC at that load point by 20% so we tell the piggyback to add 20% to that load point. Now, the ECU sees that at that load point, the car is richer than it should be so it decides that at our load point it is going to cut IDC by 20% to 30% IDC. However, our piggyback is still adding 20% and you are back to an aggregate of 50% IDC, your ECU has just "learned" around your piggyback.

Since the flash that is loaded into your AP is a new ROM for the ECU, these values cannot be "learned" around as they are written to the ECU. The AP unit itself is a delivery system for the ROM as well as a data-logger, scan tool etc.

Hope that clears some things up.

Travis
COBB Tuning

 

[john blutarski]

Cobb FTW (2thumbs)

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

Wow ok, so why doesnt everyone have one? LOL...

 

[Circle9]

Thanks for the info Travis. I'd love to hear more from you guys on this forum in the future with all the knowledge you guys have on tuning! (2thumbs)

 

[SMITTNME]

I love the AP. Instead of needing to shift at like 5500 w/out it, I have power in each gear to redline. I just got it tuned last week, and the power in each gear is even greater! I personally think its an excellent way to tune our cars.

 

[derspi]

Wow ok, so why doesnt everyone have one? LOL...

Well I have one but I can understand why not everyone would have one - $700 brand new is not to be taken lightly considering that amount can get you a catted downpipe and/or a bunch of other less expensive mods.

With that said, I am very glad I have an AP - the benefits were not as apparent when I first got it last summer but now that there are a good variety of maps, the release of ATR as well as the upcoming no-lift-shift & 2-step, it's a great addition if you have a few bolt-ons already.

 

[tunersteve]

I honestly wonder how many MS3 guys (and MS6 guys for that matter) flash the ECU with the AP, then get really hard on the car after and don't let it settle for 50 miles of easy driving. Also, how long for some people before the added power/tune becomes more of a 'placebo' and you don't notice it? I know I've been there.

I'm the one that the OP is talking about, I put a Stage 2 93 map on my car and it pulls like a madman now, and I'm loving every minute of it.(ricer)

Also, to those guys running the AP on the MS3, which maps are you running? I've heard the v1.03 maps seem to be the best bet for your cars.

 

[derspi]

Romping on it immediately after an AP flash isn't a good idea. I always go easy on it for the first 150 kms. or so (about 100 miles) before I even consider digging into the throttle much and even then, I get on it slowly for a couple of more days before I go balls to the wall. But I admit, it's really hard to resist not going WOT even for a few days in this car!

From my experience, the most aggressive map I've tried was the Stage1+SF 93 octane v1.03. This map made my car feel like a dog in heat - spikes to 22/23 PSI and holds 18-19 PSI and subsequently got me into boost cut territory and increased KR which I didn't like. I'm currently on the Stage1+SF 91 octane map and things have calmed down a bit, I'm still seeing 21-22 PSI peaks and hold 17-18 PSI with the rare boost cut once in a while but KR is being held in check. Will be getting it road tuned probably in a couple of weeks and hope to see good results.

 

[black_ninja23]

i've been thinking of getting the AP also, but i've been on the fence about it b/c i'm not sure which map to run with my mods. Currently I have a ETS TMIC and CPE SRI. Does anyone have any recommendations? Also on the maps with '93' on them do I really need to run 93 octane???

 

[Wurf]

Since the AP overwrites the values inside the ECU and the tables become whatever we change them to, there is no way for the ECU to go back to stock unless you flash it (re-write) back to stock.

The adaptiveness of the ECU is not confined to the Mazda ECU but OBDII ECUs in general. This adaptiveness is the bane of offset devices (piggybacks). Essentially with a piggyback you want to alter the value of a given load point inside the ECU. Let's say IDC (injector duty cycle) at 4,000rpm is 50% just for argument's sake.

Now, we have a bigger turbo or we increase boost pressure, we have to increase IDC at that load point by 20% so we tell the piggyback to add 20% to that load point. Now, the ECU sees that at that load point, the car is richer than it should be so it decides that at our load point it is going to cut IDC by 20% to 30% IDC. However, our piggyback is still adding 20% and you are back to an aggregate of 50% IDC, your ECU has just "learned" around your piggyback.

Since the flash that is loaded into your AP is a new ROM for the ECU, these values cannot be "learned" around as they are written to the ECU. The AP unit itself is a delivery system for the ROM as well as a data-logger, scan tool etc.

Hope that clears some things up.

Travis
COBB Tuning

THIS is great - Thank you Travis

 

[john blutarski]

i've been thinking of getting the AP also, but i've been on the fence about it b/c i'm not sure which map to run with my mods. Currently I have a ETS TMIC and CPE SRI. Does anyone have any recommendations? Also on the maps with '93' on them do I really need to run 93 octane???

Yes, for those maps you need to run 93 or higher. If you can't get that octane level gas, then you could flash the 91 octane maps.

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

I heard a rumor that our ECU's could only take 100 flashes in a life time. Anyone find that to be true?