I was messing with my shift light today and.....

[Andrade08]

s***!! This car really falls on it's face at 6000RPMs!!! It's a dead day over here for me with the wife out and the temps in the low 40s. I was bored and took the Speed out for some "spirited driving". While looking at my tach watching for the red light of the shift light to flash I noticed that my 5500RPM setting on the light was pretty dead on with the Tach. I figured that 5500RPM setting to be a little low. I started raising it by 100RPMs until I was around 5900RPMs. The car felt best at a setting of 5700RPMs on the light and me shifting quick but not trying to be the FLASH at it. With the light at 5700RPMs I always got through the shift in all gears (well...2-6 I didn't try the 1-2 *YET*) before the stock Tach hit 6000RPMs. I took the car past 6000rpms for s**** and giggles for the 1st time since I have owned it. It has over 5000 miles on it now so I figured what the hell. Man, as soon as she hits 6100RPMs the boost falls real fast to 10PSi and under and the power **DIES**!! Do the cams in this car really have that short of a power band or is the stock top mount intercooler really that restrictive in the upper RPM band?????? My boost with the Cobb SRI and the Forge BPV hold ROCK steady to just under 6000RPMs and then it's like all HELL breaks loose and the boost and the car s**** itself! The other strange thing is the more I romped on the car the more powerfull it felt?
I guess my point is...........Guys with the ETS 3"-3.5" top mounts.......are you holding boost longer in the upper RPM range? What about front mounts? I was/am looking at the Corksport unit.
OK that's all..........little bored.

 

[FMOS Racing]

Hey Matt!

Will your mods make the turbo hold boost or does the ECU still have control over the boost curve through the wastegate? Sorry, I don't know all the details about the mods yet - only had the car a few days, so bear with me.

On my stock car, it's pretty obvious even without a boost gauge that the ECU is turning down the boost in the upper RPMs. The car feels mean through the mid range and really starts to lay down up top. No reason that should be cam-oriented that I can imagine.

BTW, I'll be in Andover from March 23 to April 30 (probably longer but that's the current length of the contract) doing some system startup for Wyeth.

Jeff S.

 

[AutoXRacer]

The reason for the loss of power at the top end is the throttle plate closing...
Yes, with mods it holds boost/power longer, but still falls...

Its the ECU tuning that partially closes the throttle plate at those RPMs...

 

[FMOS Racing]

Ok, that's a dirty, rotten trick... smart engineering, though.

 

[AutoXRacer]

The AP cult crowd is hoping Cobb will override the throttle plate in hopes of having full power on the top end...

 

[MS3077]

I think Mazda doesn't want us breaking this car

 

[Andrade08]

Hey Matt!

Will your mods make the turbo hold boost or does the ECU still have control over the boost curve through the wastegate? Sorry, I don't know all the details about the mods yet - only had the car a few days, so bear with me.

On my stock car, it's pretty obvious even without a boost gauge that the ECU is turning down the boost in the upper RPMs. The car feels mean through the mid range and really starts to lay down up top. No reason that should be cam-oriented that I can imagine.

BTW, I'll be in Andover from March 23 to April 30 (probably longer but that's the current length of the contract) doing some system startup for Wyeth.

Jeff S.

LOL!! You found me!!!!!!! Only a few NLOC guys know I drive this now. I just wanted some thing that was still a little quick but was OK on gas. I miss the truck. I am thinking of getting another one and just tinkering with it. Ah.......who knows.
Good thing is this little speed3 has a gajillion FoMoCo parts on it! (laugh)
Go look at the insides of the BIG front brake calipers. And your coils under the intercooler. So..........your going to leave this stock right? Like me? (yes)

 

[AutoXRacer]

Good thing is this little speed3 has a gajillion FoMoCo parts on it! (laugh)
Go look at the insides of the BIG front brake calipers. And your coils under the intercooler.

So does this mean there is a possibility that Ford release a MS3 like car...? (huh)
Maybe a SVT Focus with our setup? (omg)

 

[VermZ06]

So does this mean there is a possibility that Ford release a MS3 like car...? (huh)
Maybe a SVT Focus with our setup? (omg)

There might be a slight possibility of a new svt focus, but even the redesigned U.S. focus that just came out uses the same old underpinnings as the outgoing model and does not use the same chassis as the current euro focus or the Mazda3...so with that said and the major troubles ford is currently facing i highly doubt there will be a new U.S. SVT focus anytime soon...maybe ford will offer something with a little more get-up-and-go once the MS3's days are over...

 

[MS3077]

There might be a slight possibility of a new svt focus, but even the redesigned U.S. focus that just came out uses the same old underpinnings as the outgoing model and does not use the same chassis as the current euro focus or the Mazda3...so with that said and the major troubles ford is currently facing i highly doubt there will be a new U.S. SVT focus anytime soon...maybe ford will offer something with a little more get-up-and-go once the MS3's days are over...

Cacaroches will rule the world before this happens...

 

[AutoXRacer]

Cacaroches will rule the world before this happens...

(scratch) Roaches already rule the world... (lol2)

 

[FMOS Racing]

Will it stay stock? C'mon, Matt... I think you know me better than that! I bought the MS CAI before I left the dealership.

I installed an intercooled Vortech setup on a friend's SVT Focus last winter. Really made that a totally different animal. I let him drive the MS3 this past Saturday when a group came over to use the garage and he was pretty impressed. I don't know if I can run with him up top, but the short end of the track vs his car is mine.

Comparing the two cars, though, the MS3 is a much nicer car in every aspect. And that's coming from a big SVT fan.

So what drives the throttle motor? If it's voltage or current, it seems like it would be relatively simple and cheap to make a WOT override. Say it's a 0-5V signal, build a circuit with an arming switch and a trigger, much like a nitrous system. Arm it and when you go WOT, it keeps 5V fed to the throttle, no matter what the ECU does. As soon as you lift off the throttle or disarm the circuit, the ECU gets control back (that could make for some potentially jerky transitions, I suppose).

However, if it's frequency or some binary stepper motor type setup, someone smarter than me will have to come up with the circuit, though I still think it would be doable.

Is the ECU fiddling with the throttle plate at lower pedal angles, too? Is that why the car has such an amazing surge at part throttle and so little lag?

 

[MS3077]

Is the ECU fiddling with the throttle plate at lower pedal angles, too? Is that why the car has such an amazing surge at part throttle and so little lag?

I think that has something to do with the DISI
Direct Injection Spark Ignition (DISI)

 

[Andrade08]

Will it stay stock? C'mon, Matt... I think you know me better than that! I bought the MS CAI before I left the dealership.

I installed an intercooled Vortech setup on a friend's SVT Focus last winter. Really made that a totally different animal. I let him drive the MS3 this past Saturday when a group came over to use the garage and he was pretty impressed. I don't know if I can run with him up top, but the short end of the track vs his car is mine.

Comparing the two cars, though, the MS3 is a much nicer car in every aspect. And that's coming from a big SVT fan.

So what drives the throttle motor? If it's voltage or current, it seems like it would be relatively simple and cheap to make a WOT override. Say it's a 0-5V signal, build a circuit with an arming switch and a trigger, much like a nitrous system. Arm it and when you go WOT, it keeps 5V fed to the throttle, no matter what the ECU does. As soon as you lift off the throttle or disarm the circuit, the ECU gets control back (that could make for some potentially jerky transitions, I suppose).

However, if it's frequency or some binary stepper motor type setup, someone smarter than me will have to come up with the circuit, though I still think it would be doable.

Is the ECU fiddling with the throttle plate at lower pedal angles, too? Is that why the car has such an amazing surge at part throttle and so little lag?

Ah....it's not as cut and dry as the throttle blade not being 100% open Jeff. I have been reading up on the ECM programing on this thing. It's comanded torque from the ECM. Look at it like your timing curve. Down low you give it full advance at say 28* on your small block, then as the RPMs go up you scale it down to say 22* at 6000RPMs. Mazda uses the throttle like this on this motor. Not only is it controlling the throttle blade but it is also controlling the wastegate.......boost. The AFRs are in the low 10s on this car also. I am thinking Mazda tryed to make this car SAFE. Just opening the throttle blade to 100% will not change the commanded load at the RPM/boost your at.
At least this is what I am reading anyway. You do not get your full 15.6PSI in 1st or 2nd gear either. You get like 9PSI in 1st and then around 12 in second. Some times you do not get it all in 3rd either. And that is with the traction controll on. Off I think the ECM bleeds off even more. I wonder if an A9L and a Tweecer would work on this car? LMAO!!!!!!!!! (drive2)

Edit......I think I typed load when I wanted Torque.

 

[redrocketz]

There might be a slight possibility of a new svt focus, but even the redesigned U.S. focus that just came out uses the same old underpinnings as the outgoing model and does not use the same chassis as the current euro focus or the Mazda3...so with that said and the major troubles ford is currently facing i highly doubt there will be a new U.S. SVT focus anytime soon...maybe ford will offer something with a little more get-up-and-go once the MS3's days are over...

Ford kind of disbanded SVT so the likely hood is very low. They are discussing (from a reliable inside source) bringing the new RS over here though.

 

[MS3077]

Ford kind of disbanded SVT so the likely hood is very low. They are discussing (from a reliable inside source) bringing the new RS over here though.

I believe this.

 

[SuperProtege5]

If they do it may be a stepping stone in the right direction to save Ford.

 

[FMOS Racing]

But you can control boost with a MBC or EBC. So if you basically take control of the wastegate and the throttle blade, then what can the ECU do?

I'm certain all that drop off is to make people WANT to shift before redline. I'm thinking that at the stock settings, these cars would probably live forever... but I want control wherever I can get it.

I would bet good money that these little suckers could trap 105-106 mph at stock boost level if you could keep that throttle open all the way through the rev range. That sluff off at the top is, for me, a major killjoy. Moderating the boost in 1st and 2nd doesn't really bother me - more would just mean more spinning.

 

[redrocketz]

well there is no way of controlling the throttle plate as of yet.

 

[detsilverms3]

Ford kind of disbanded SVT so the likely hood is very low. They are discussing (from a reliable inside source) bringing the new RS over here though.

i looked it up and i'm not sure ford will bring that over here as the focus is still a hatchback in Europe. And the RS is slated to be made on the ST platform so i don't know.Ford Europe Car Listings also right now the ST is just barely available.