The MS6 Build-a-Beast is coming very soon...(Pics)

I dont know if its been talked about or might be a noob comment, but could the problem be the fuel pressure regulator. Its not talked about alot and i know a couple of guys with the intank pump upgrade (might of)changed their fuel pump regulator but we have another one on the fuel rail. I think the car is preventing more fuel into the engine not just because the cam driven fuel pump is weak, its just that our car is max for 1885 psi and the regulator wont allow us to go past it. More fuel equals more pressure. I dont think we could even upgrade our rails or injectors.
 
I dont know if its been talked about or might be a noob comment, but could the problem be the fuel pressure regulator. Its not talked about alot and i know a couple of guys with the intank pump upgrade (might of)changed their fuel pump regulator but we have another one on the fuel rail. I think the car is preventing more fuel into the engine not just because the cam driven fuel pump is weak, its just that our car is max for 1885 psi and the regulator wont allow us to go past it. More fuel equals more pressure. I dont think we could even upgrade our rails or injectors.

port injected cars come with fuel rails, common injectors, and and a fuel pressure regulator, vacuum actuated, usually 3, 3.5, or 4 bar.

DI motors don't have them, the CDFpump is the regulator.
 
But what about the pressure, if the pressure is too high for the rails, wouldnt the ecu prevent the cdfpump pumping more fuel into the engine, even if you upgrade the fuel pump? There is a fuel pump sensor on the rails. Like i said again, might be a noob question.
 
The issue is that he's running an ecu designed for 10.5:1 compression ratio on an 8.8:1 (IIRC) compression ratio motor. The timing will be all off as will the necessary fueling requirements. In this case a "tuner" can't just take out a little fuel and add some timing to make power, especially considering the only modifications that can be made are being made with a piggyback. The motor is different enough to warrant a standalone.
 
couple questions....

said the car hit 300 or whatever at 12psi after the tuner played with it? can you drive around town at 12psi without issues currently? i know you said it was like crap at 15psi.....but what about where "they tuned it"?

how are you guys getting crank signals? i know the older NA models have a crank trigger on the crank pulley. i know the newer NA Mazda3's use a hall effect trigger, so it's a bit different. also, the knock sensor is MUCH more aggressive on the speed's than on the NA models, is there any way he could advance timing at the sesnor/trigger like we do? might compensate for some of the lower rpm popping issues? then the knock sensor could pull what's needed up top?

..what's the weather like now? i know a lot of you guys have been bitching about the cold and the cutout lately....could that have amplified things on your car in it's current state?
 
the fact is that it is possible to safely tune a car to run at 330awhp all day long so what is the issue here? I think it would be VERY beneficial if we could get our hands on the car...
 
as stated before, given other peoples tests, an issue with inefficient injectors just doesn't fit the bill? the issue has yet to come up before, and his issue is at much less boost than others.
 
there is so much misinformation, rampant speculation and ill advised opinion in this thread its not even funny. there are more than a few things stated in here showing that there is little or no understanding as to how A) engines fundamentally work B) engine management works C) what triggers fuel cut D)

the car has been to one shop, one person for tuning and in my opinion the owner of this car has been shortchanged by every party involved in the process and not given the benefit of a person's full attention to the car. compression isn't going to be a factor that triggers fuel or boost cut, or even so much as sputters. compression is not 10.5 to 1 on these engines stock and the computer is not tuned for that. compression is not even that high on a standard mazda3 2.3 L3 engine. mazda hasn't sold a 4 cylinder engine with anywhere near that compression ratio - and not in america mind you - since 2001 on the japan spec FS-ZE. even if a computer were tuned for that ratio, the argument that a piggyback is incapable of making adjustments to account for a mere half point drop in compression renders that system effectively worthless. i've seen less advanced turboed engines with a point and half drop in compression run fine on stock computer with no other piggyback interference whatsoever. whether or not the engine is direct injection is not going to be the deal killer either. you do not need high compression to make direct injection work. having direct injection allows for higher compression ratios where otherwise not possible. if the compression ratio were the issue here, you would see problems at idle and prior to any kind of boost before you saw them anywhere else.

if anything, running lower compression would by all logic presented lessen any chance of the ECU triggering a fuel or boost cut. your engine would naturally run richer from the get go, combustion temps would cooler, the car would be making the same or less power prior to any tuning, etc etc.

there seems to be this misconception that one lone factor induces fuel/boost cut, as well as one misconception that one lone factor induces throttle plate closing on this car. if either of these were true, you would not have engineers chasing thier tails trying to isolate it. simple voltage clamps would solve your problems. i am not at all surprised that even with standbacks, XEDEs, MAP clamps, electronic boost controllers, boost cut defensers that people still have these problems - albeit to an extent lessened.

i think people have jumped on the fact here that one tuner who seems to have his rep and ego been really trumped up gave up on the car after what sounds like one day of work after the car sat in his hands with chris on his back. rather than throw ideas out there, some of which are frankly devoid of facts entirely, perhaps it would be more prudent to start with the basics. check the standback connections. check the connections of every sensor. people are making power on these cars when they have been tuned by competent and willing folk. 4DRHTRD was making a ton of power and running a lot of boost, even with the XEDE wired in totally wrong. our car has made quite a bit of safe power, tuned both by us and by another shop. the potential is there if things are done right, and its more beneficial to focus on that then it is to saying what he has won't work because one person's abilities were not sufficient enough to tune the car.
 
there is so much misinformation, rampant speculation and ill advised opinion in this thread its not even funny. there are more than a few things stated in here showing that there is little or no understanding as to how A) engines fundamentally work B) engine management works C) what triggers fuel cut D)

Yes, finally someone with some common sense. This thread has gone so horrible, I just felt dumber by the second reading it. I really hope that chris can get the help he needs to get his ms6 running good.
 
I was curious about the injectors, i know our injectors are 1600cc or something like that so they wont be maxed out.
 
I was curious about the injectors, i know our injectors are 1600cc or something like that so they wont be maxed out.
No they wouldnt be maxed out. Im making 330whp on the stock fuel system. With the upgraded fuel pump he should be able to hit 400whp with no problems.(drive2)
 
So why don't you? Doesn't PG have a HPFP option?

the reasons for this are actually really simple - we have to operate within jason's budget and around his schedule. plus i have customers in line for pumps and they must be served first. he's also toyed with the idea of trading his car. please PM him now and tell him what a poor idea this is (argh)

no problems, with the exception of that minor one - ahem, fuel cut?

fuel cut - almost - no longer occurs on jason's car. we have mostly eliminated it with the XEDE and does not even occur on a daily if once a week basis
 
I thought he had built internals...

Well anyway, Jason, build your freaking car and don't trade it. We still have our race to do when the drag season starts back up :D.
 
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