lil_red_wagon
Member
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- lil white p5
i'm in on this one. i want to do it for the same reason that i have done most things in my life; because it has been said that we can't.
NA Tech Race to 100whp per 1000cc's
- Thread starter LordWorm
- Start date
a few points about ITBs since the questions have been asked...
The ITB's i've looked at (blacktop quads, factory delievered on the toyota 4age blacktop engines) only have one of the throttles actuated by a cable. The other throttles are connected to the first via linkages, so if one throttle opens, it opens all of them at once.
ITB's don't need air rammed into them, plenty of motors are delivered with quads and have the intake manifold on the firewall side of the motor. ITB's rely on enormous amounts of passive cylinder filling to do their job. HOWEVER, it would be advisable to cut a hole in your hood, and fabricate some sort of scoop to get fresh air over the trumpet openings so you're not breathing in red hot engine bay air....Will also make filtering the whole thing alot easier.
On the subject of the tripoint proteges - yes we know those challange cars have cracked 200hp on the fs and we know they make good power NA out of the duratec motors.. the point is noone has duplicated their success off their own back. Most if not all cars attempting to run these numbers in this thread will be street drivable, and built without large sponsorship bankrolls to support them.
Also, I reckon we'll see more than one "formula" for achieving this kind of power out of this. There may only end up being a handful of these motors, but the idea is to find out some new ways to do things which other people can subsequently use.
The ITB's i've looked at (blacktop quads, factory delievered on the toyota 4age blacktop engines) only have one of the throttles actuated by a cable. The other throttles are connected to the first via linkages, so if one throttle opens, it opens all of them at once.
ITB's don't need air rammed into them, plenty of motors are delivered with quads and have the intake manifold on the firewall side of the motor. ITB's rely on enormous amounts of passive cylinder filling to do their job. HOWEVER, it would be advisable to cut a hole in your hood, and fabricate some sort of scoop to get fresh air over the trumpet openings so you're not breathing in red hot engine bay air....Will also make filtering the whole thing alot easier.
On the subject of the tripoint proteges - yes we know those challange cars have cracked 200hp on the fs and we know they make good power NA out of the duratec motors.. the point is noone has duplicated their success off their own back. Most if not all cars attempting to run these numbers in this thread will be street drivable, and built without large sponsorship bankrolls to support them.
Also, I reckon we'll see more than one "formula" for achieving this kind of power out of this. There may only end up being a handful of these motors, but the idea is to find out some new ways to do things which other people can subsequently use.
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- 02' Protege ES (Gone)
16' Mazda 6 sport manual
So is it me or are more and more people going NA in the forums.......I keep seeing threads pop up. You have started something LordWorm.
(rockon)viva la revolucion(rockon)
Maybe we should get Leader board of the Progress those who are trying this.
Here use this as template
MakeMeGoFast.......2.5KL........0whp........"link to build thread"
(rockon)viva la revolucion(rockon)
Maybe we should get Leader board of the Progress those who are trying this.
Here use this as template
MakeMeGoFast.......2.5KL........0whp........"link to build thread"
need some build threads first
but thats the general idea.....i'll be updating the first post with something along those lines once the build threads start popping up.and yes, it does seem like we're getting some NA tech growth... i must remember to hit antoine up for some statistics to see if this is working
At this stage it looks as though its still the "protege show" unfortunatly - i'd really love to see some of the NA 3, 6, miata, and other mazdas testing their metal against the proteges... so if you have friends on these forums with newer, or older, or just downright different piston powered mazdas that are into NA modding, get them to join the party
Gasological
Member
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- '03 MSP #493
Hey, I may be a turbo'd traitor, but this is a seriously cool idea. Much props to you guys, this ought to be fun to watch. Subbin for future updates.
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- 02' Protege ES (Gone)
16' Mazda 6 sport manual
Some specs of the SWC protege engine.
Spec Sheet
Found it reading through Installshield2s 197whp thread
I'll see what I can do about recruiting people for the NA contest.
Spec Sheet
Found it reading through Installshield2s 197whp thread
I'll see what I can do about recruiting people for the NA contest.
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- 02' Protege ES (Gone)
16' Mazda 6 sport manual
AzteCypher
black ops modifications..
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- 2001 Mazda Protege LX
What about swapping the 2.3L into the protege with a stand alone and ITBs. I'd say that should yield about 175-180. Add on to that the standard bolt ons and a port and polish with a good valve job and it should be pretty close to 200 if not over. All I have to do is rob a bank now....
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- 02' Protege ES (Gone)
16' Mazda 6 sport manual
Not necessarily, we'll say a donor Mx-6 can be had for about 2k(all parts for swap including engine if its good) the ITB setup can be had for 4-6 hundred. there are kits for the KL that include upraded everything, as far as rods pistons etc for like $2k give or take a few hundred. The total cost could be relatively low, if you do most of the work yourself. double it if not...lol
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the 2.3 into the protege is a good idea - surprised noone has picked up on it
it looks to be a strong engine, and displacement is on your side. its an advanced engine and shouldn't need to be worked as hard as the other motors suggested here...and there are "off the shelf" 200+ hp race blocks that can be bought.
that said, its not going to be a cheap swap, or an easy swap.....
AzteCypher
black ops modifications..
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- 2001 Mazda Protege LX
How about the 2.3L from the Mazda3. How feasible would that be?
I thought thats what we were talking about?
Its feasable - the engine should physically fit - obviously custom mounts would need to be fabricated, some sort of management would be needed, and lots of custom wiring jobs to get the dash board work (this is going to be a problem if you go with any motor that wasn't in the car originally, the stock tacho utilizes a signal from the FP/FS ecu....)
Yes its feasable
yes it would be a reasonable engine to select
~230whp would be needed to cross the line first, unless you overbore it for more displacement then the target goes up.
very expensive engine choice though
if swapping is what you wanna do, the 2.5L KLZE would be my choice, because:
its been done before
the motors are not that expensive
its been done before
its been done before
and making the power wouldn't be that much of a push...
oh, and its been done before
if enough people were to go for this swap, we could get some really interesting debates and discussions about the best way to do the job.....
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- 02' Protege ES (Gone)
16' Mazda 6 sport manual
Well I's a think a 2.3 gonna cost lots a money,and just for the motor and tranny , that doesnt include anything else. but then again this little comp isnt about the money now is it.
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- 02' Protege ES (Gone)
16' Mazda 6 sport manual
Might aswell get a decent amount power if Im gonna spend the money to reach the goal.
I thought thats what we were talking about?
Its feasable - the engine should physically fit - obviously custom mounts would need to be fabricated, some sort of management would be needed, and lots of custom wiring jobs to get the dash board work (this is going to be a problem if you go with any motor that wasn't in the car originally, the stock tacho utilizes a signal from the FP/FS ecu....)
Yes its feasable
yes it would be a reasonable engine to select
~230whp would be needed to cross the line first, unless you overbore it for more displacement then the target goes up.
very expensive engine choice though
if swapping is what you wanna do, the 2.5L KLZE would be my choice, because:
its been done before
the motors are not that expensive
its been done before
its been done before
and making the power wouldn't be that much of a push...
oh, and its been done before
if enough people were to go for this swap, we could get some really interesting debates and discussions about the best way to do the job.....
is there anyone in these forums that has done it before... bbecause i was trying to contact some people who have done it....
the 2.3 or the KL?
i dont think teh 2.3 has been done ever....i could be wrong..
the KL - its been done, but i haven't seen anyone do it on these forums. I've seen photographs of the P5 with the KL installed and so forth.
The swap shouldn't be that hard...but you'll need the following at the very least:
custom engine mounts (any engineer worth their salt should be able to fabricate these. Avoid the temptation to go with custom aluminium mounts unless you can afford billets. I've seen welded aluminium mounts crack the welds on a few honda swaps....steel mounts would be preferable)
probably custom or modified axles (whilst the G series box will still work, i'm not sure if it will end up mounted in the same location - as such the P5 axles could end up being a problem. You may be able to get away with using the stock ones if you get the place making your mounts to insure the engine is installed relative to the gearbox location.
an ECU of some sort - the stock KL ecu will work, but it wont get you where you want to go. Control over fuel and ignition will be critical, especially if you start modifying the KL. i recommend the microtech LT12S, though any 6 injector driver ecu will do the job.
A way to send the signal to the stock tacho - this will require some sort of circuit which converts the 12volt PWM signal from the ecu of your choice to the correct PWM signal for the stock tacho. I have no idea where to even begin doing this, but if you dont do this, you will need a seperate tacho, and suffer having the stock tacho sitting there doing nothing.
By and large it should be fairly straight forward. I suggest you find a workshop that is well versed in performing engine swaps to help guide you through the process and handle the tricky bits for you....
There may end up being a handful of people willing to perform this swap, so you should have a good group of people to run ideas through etc once you get going with it.
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- 02' Protege ES (Gone)
16' Mazda 6 sport manual
A while back I was in Contact with DOMSPUN(has performed a few swaps). This is basically what is needed. The most important thing is that Mechanically its a direct swap. By direct I mean No custom parts, well almost none. Obviously beefed up parts may be in order, is 250whp is the goal in mind.
Also keep in mind this is the basic List of things needed. He didnt go into complete detail as the list was in french and at the time he did not feel like translating.
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i think you need to start a thread dude..... detailing the parts purchased and what exactly is involved
i was completely unaware that mechanically it was a direct swap.
Whats the deal with ABS? can it be kept? is it better to keep the protege transmission (its a g series, and should bolt up) as axle spline issues wont crop up (if there are axle spline issues to contend with).
Ignore the VAF and ECU bit - grab the loom, but i'd be going STRAIGHT to management. Reason being you'll find it far easier to hit the power goal....
race tuned 6-2-1 exhaust manifold (basically 2x 3-1's, with a 2-1 joining it up...or you could go 2x 3-1's, and run twin exhaust pipes, just be sure to install a balance pipe to kill the drone) with merge collectors, and a decent intake manifold (be that IRTB's or a tunnel ram - i can help you with the calcs if you need), engine management, upgraded ignition system and some nice cam shafts and you'll be well on your way to hitting your required numbers i'd think.... the KLZE from what i've heard loves to rev.... but a factory ECU will mean you are stuck with the standard redline.
If you want to go further, the KLZE can be overbored to achieve a total of around 2.7L... obviously this pushes your goal higher, but the engine would be a beast. If you do get into the guts of it, longer rods (probably custom) to assist with increasing revability and high comp pistons are probably the order of the day. That and some extensive head work.
I really can't wait to see what kind of animals you guys come up with
