I want to keep my stock head unit, however I may be upgrading speakers, putting in an amp to power those, and I'm looking for a self-contained (amp and sub) sub unit. I'd like to put the amp under one front seat, and the sub unit under the other. I think Clarion has a unit like I'm looking for, but I don't know anything about it. Does anybody have suggestions or experience to share? I do NOT want to replace my stock head unit because I love how integrated it looks and the little lights when I turn it up and down... Just dig it's looks. Can I even replace the speakers with better ones driven by an amp and put a sub unit in off of the stock head unit? I have an '07 MS3 Sport with zero options but the dimming outside temp/compass mirror.
Sub for stock MS3 Sport?
- Thread starter BluMicaR
- Start date
silverspeed03
Boost Junky
- :
- 2008 MS3
Great question. I'm in the same situation. I'd like to keep the stock HU too and want to upgrade the all the door speakers and run an amp to them. then install a a 10" sub for a little more bass.
I have a feeling that the stock HU will not be powerful enough for what I'm looking for.
Anyone with any suggestions?
I have a feeling that the stock HU will not be powerful enough for what I'm looking for.
Anyone with any suggestions?
There's a few ways to go about this, if you're just looking for a simple improvement I'd try this: Get a 4-channel amp for the door speakers and run your stock HU's 2 front outputs into the speaker-level inputs of this amp. Most 4-channel amps let you run all 4 channels off of the same 2 inputs. Set the gain for your rear speakers lower than the gain for the fronts. Then get a mono amp for your sub (or an amp/sub combo) and run the stock HU's 2 rear outputs into the speaker-level inputs. Now you even have a poor-man's sub level control by fading the stock deck to front or back. Just make sure the amps you choose have speaker-level inputs (I know Alpine V-Power's do). There are better-sounding options you can add between the stock HU and amps (search Rockford Fosgate 3sixty), but they're more expensive and you could always upgrade later without needing to replace what you already have.
fourthmeal
Banned
I used the 3sixty.2 with the stock head unit with great results. My install thread is on DIYMA, a link to which is located in my signature.
Since that time, there is now many other "O.E. Integrators" out there, JBL MS8 is one of them, as is the new Alpine. Basically, you need something that can re-align the stock headunit's EQ work that can't be tuned out otherwise. There is a huge cut in the low frequencies around 40hz and down, and also another one in the 10K up range. While those frequencies aren't the mass of music's range, they are the parts that make music sound either "live and upfront" or "flat", so leaving the frequency response as-is will result in lackluster performance from just about any system, no matter the expense in equipment. Flattening the EQ curve back out is the trick, and an O.E. integrator like 3sixty.2 or others will serve this purpose.
My suggestion is to run a signal from the FRONT output of the head unit if you are doing just a sub (and trust me, you'll want to do more then just a sub, this car can do a lot more.) The rear outputs are 100X worse then the front in EQ change, and it can make for a really bad sounding sub if done the typical way.
If you want to do it right, then you'd be best running equipment in the trunk. There is actually room to stealth everything in, I've proven that. Even with the spare tire installed! IF you can pull the spare without consequence, then you can really get some equipment in there. IF the spare must stay, then consider running powerful but small amps, and a single 10" sub. This under-seat stuff is not a good idea, because we have virtually no room for quality gear, period.
What is your budget, complete from the ground up? I'll guide you with some ideas. Make sure to budget for sound dampener and all the other stuff people forget about, because it all matters quite a bit. Look forward to your response.
Since that time, there is now many other "O.E. Integrators" out there, JBL MS8 is one of them, as is the new Alpine. Basically, you need something that can re-align the stock headunit's EQ work that can't be tuned out otherwise. There is a huge cut in the low frequencies around 40hz and down, and also another one in the 10K up range. While those frequencies aren't the mass of music's range, they are the parts that make music sound either "live and upfront" or "flat", so leaving the frequency response as-is will result in lackluster performance from just about any system, no matter the expense in equipment. Flattening the EQ curve back out is the trick, and an O.E. integrator like 3sixty.2 or others will serve this purpose.
My suggestion is to run a signal from the FRONT output of the head unit if you are doing just a sub (and trust me, you'll want to do more then just a sub, this car can do a lot more.) The rear outputs are 100X worse then the front in EQ change, and it can make for a really bad sounding sub if done the typical way.
If you want to do it right, then you'd be best running equipment in the trunk. There is actually room to stealth everything in, I've proven that. Even with the spare tire installed! IF you can pull the spare without consequence, then you can really get some equipment in there. IF the spare must stay, then consider running powerful but small amps, and a single 10" sub. This under-seat stuff is not a good idea, because we have virtually no room for quality gear, period.
What is your budget, complete from the ground up? I'll guide you with some ideas. Make sure to budget for sound dampener and all the other stuff people forget about, because it all matters quite a bit. Look forward to your response.
Stock unit - fantastic sound
I kept the stock head unit in my new mazda 3 hatch.
I added an Infiniti BassLink sub. Pretty slick. Sub and Amp in one compact package.Line level inputs, front and rear which i ran up to the head unit. Sub has cross over, phase, level and bass boost. Sub has tons of bass. The sub also included a neat little remote bass level control which is installed in the dash.
I also upgraded the two rear door speakers with infiniti refernce (less expensive than kappas) 5x8s and front doors with infiniti 6.5 inch reference components. I made a small adapterplates, 5x8 to 6.5 inch out of a pice of hardwood sub floor. I found the doors to be much more speaker upgrade friendly on this car than my old protege.
The car sounds very good, very clear, all with the stock head unit
I kept the stock head unit in my new mazda 3 hatch.
I added an Infiniti BassLink sub. Pretty slick. Sub and Amp in one compact package.Line level inputs, front and rear which i ran up to the head unit. Sub has cross over, phase, level and bass boost. Sub has tons of bass. The sub also included a neat little remote bass level control which is installed in the dash.
I also upgraded the two rear door speakers with infiniti refernce (less expensive than kappas) 5x8s and front doors with infiniti 6.5 inch reference components. I made a small adapterplates, 5x8 to 6.5 inch out of a pice of hardwood sub floor. I found the doors to be much more speaker upgrade friendly on this car than my old protege.
The car sounds very good, very clear, all with the stock head unit
when I was shopping for a MS3 (dealers wouldn't return my calls, so I bought a Jeep) I had J/L Clean Sweep in my head, but only because I remember reading about it at CES a couple years ago... I don't know what they retail at now, but I bet it's expensive.
flipstylex
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed 3, Cosmic Blue sport
sounds good, tell me more !!!!
I'll let you read...
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_cleansweep_pages.php?page_id=79
I don't know the price or if there is any competition out there for this product, I've been out of the Car Audio scene.
I used to be big into Car Audio, but after a baby It's hard to spend the time and money on Car Stereos. What I got works for me.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_cleansweep_pages.php?page_id=79
I don't know the price or if there is any competition out there for this product, I've been out of the Car Audio scene.
I used to be big into Car Audio, but after a baby It's hard to spend the time and money on Car Stereos. What I got works for me.
Wow, Fourthmeal and Wgillam sounds like you have both done some work on the sounds inside! I am coming off a 94 TBird with an Alpine v12 and a mono sub amp driving a 12" ported box in the trunk and four Eclipse door speakers, the deck is an Alpine, er, something. I got the deck upgraded 2 years ago, it was listing about $375, and has a setting for basically EVERYTHING. I also have an on/off rocker switch for the sub in the trunk. In my MS3 I'm looking to go COMPLETELY invisible install, I don't want to use any of my hatch space because it's a 5-door, I bought my first 3s in '05 knowing I'd 'grow' into it with my g/f. I want my MS3 to sound great, with that balance of sound I got used to in my TBird. Not looking for competition trebs or lows. Definitely want some crispness when I crank it to hear the mids and highs, and I want that kick of bass to lull me into musical happyland.
I'd say I'm looking to spend... Oh, $600 total. I want to do nothing visible, not even a switch this time, I want the sub always on. I want the stock head unit, past that my options off the top of my head for installation are under the front seats OR in the cavernous fricking glovebox I saw in, "The Descent," that is now in the MS3. I'd like to keep half the CF in it or more.
When you said 3sixty.2 I went 'what'...
I guess I have some research to do! I have a 'guy' who owns a shop in Cincy who can give me a big hookup on prices - I got that Alpine deck in my TBird for $225. He can also do the dirty work for me so I know it's done right, if I don't end up doing it myself.
I'd say I'm looking to spend... Oh, $600 total. I want to do nothing visible, not even a switch this time, I want the sub always on. I want the stock head unit, past that my options off the top of my head for installation are under the front seats OR in the cavernous fricking glovebox I saw in, "The Descent," that is now in the MS3. I'd like to keep half the CF in it or more.
When you said 3sixty.2 I went 'what'...
I guess I have some research to do! I have a 'guy' who owns a shop in Cincy who can give me a big hookup on prices - I got that Alpine deck in my TBird for $225. He can also do the dirty work for me so I know it's done right, if I don't end up doing it myself.fourthmeal
Banned
budget is too low IMO, because sound deadening and wiring alone will take about 1/2 that. Not to mention that a 3sixty.2 or any of its competitors costs about $500.
Building a stealth system isn't tough to do in this car, especially if you are able to pull the spare tire. If you can't pull the spare, then you have a slightly harder job to do.
If you want a solution that will work without being rigged to sound 1/2 way decent, I suggest plunking more into the budget.
Typically, with $1500 (complete) you can do quite a bit. I'm certainly not bragging, but I want you to know that getting better then stock isn't easy with a budget of $500-600. It took me an equipment and materials list that went up into the 2k range to get what I wanted, which was clear, real sound. A front stage of music that emulates a concert or a jazz hall in detail. I'm not done yet, but its good for now.
if you need to learn about car audio in general, go to www.bcae1.com, an excellent ground-up teaching website.
If you want a solution picked out for you, I can do that but first I need to confirm your new budget. I can typically get it within $100 of what you have available, but the things you want to do (stock deck, smooth integration, STEALTH) all cost money. Let me know what you want to do.
Building a stealth system isn't tough to do in this car, especially if you are able to pull the spare tire. If you can't pull the spare, then you have a slightly harder job to do.
If you want a solution that will work without being rigged to sound 1/2 way decent, I suggest plunking more into the budget.
Typically, with $1500 (complete) you can do quite a bit. I'm certainly not bragging, but I want you to know that getting better then stock isn't easy with a budget of $500-600. It took me an equipment and materials list that went up into the 2k range to get what I wanted, which was clear, real sound. A front stage of music that emulates a concert or a jazz hall in detail. I'm not done yet, but its good for now.
if you need to learn about car audio in general, go to www.bcae1.com, an excellent ground-up teaching website.
If you want a solution picked out for you, I can do that but first I need to confirm your new budget. I can typically get it within $100 of what you have available, but the things you want to do (stock deck, smooth integration, STEALTH) all cost money. Let me know what you want to do.
Much appreciated, let me debate this for a bit; going on vacation Friday, not to return until Oct 28 - won't have access to net on the beach. I'm sure I could arrange it, but c'mon, it's the BEACH. Should have ample time to consider this - it's under my performance priorities for now. I want a TBE, an FMIC or TMIC, and EMS before anything else goes in the car - but in about a week and a half I'll have an updated budget number. I'm probably /not/ looking for concert or jazz hall quality here just way better than the muddiness and no-lows of the factory. Sound deadening in particular is an interest to me as my '05 3s was loud as hell on interstates; the MS3 is better, but I would like a lot more quiet in my cockpit. In fact, there's something that could come before performance mods if it was a budget range - you said wiring and sound deadening is half my $600? Do tell about the sound deadening, what's the prescription? Something like Dynamat under the carpet and in the doors, or is there much more for the banging buck?
Should have ample time to consider this - it's under my performance priorities for now. I want a TBE, an FMIC or TMIC, and EMS before anything else goes in the car - but in about a week and a half I'll have an updated budget number. I'm probably /not/ looking for concert or jazz hall quality here just way better than the muddiness and no-lows of the factory. Sound deadening in particular is an interest to me as my '05 3s was loud as hell on interstates; the MS3 is better, but I would like a lot more quiet in my cockpit. In fact, there's something that could come before performance mods if it was a budget range - you said wiring and sound deadening is half my $600? Do tell about the sound deadening, what's the prescription? Something like Dynamat under the carpet and in the doors, or is there much more for the banging buck?Dynamat extreme is what I used, although I'm piecmealing my sound deadening together... I wish I would have done it all at one time and saved some heartache. I don't know of anything better, but I'm going on 3 year old info. I am continuing with Dynamat extreme because it's what I trust (without trying the other products, I may be missing a better deal)
Waiting on Fourth's response too - so what does it entail, lining the door panels with Dynamat and the floor under the carpet? I'm looking for a 'kind of' detailed install description - I could do this myself on a Sunday, just pick up a case o' mat and a case o' beer.
fourthmeal
Banned
Morning...
Best deal I've come across for sound deadening is Raammat. Raamaudio sells it, and Rick is the proprietor, a great guy. You'll want at least one roll of Raammat, and 4-6 yards of Ensolite, a nice closed-cell foam designed to cover over the Raammat and add squeak control to the doors and such. You'll also want two to three cans of adhesive spray. It is the best stuff I've come across for vinyl or carpet work as well.
Wiring wise, Knuknonceptz is very good for raw wire, both power/ground and speaker. The connectors and RCA wires (at least in the mid to lower end) leave something to be desired, but they aren't horrible. My suggestion? Run at least 4 gauge to the trunk, so you only have to do it once even if you upgrade your system. I've had best luck with Streetwires for connectors and fuse blocks. I've also had great luck with Esoteric or Rockford Fosgate RCA's. Most RCA's tend to get destroyed too easily in the auto environment while getting pulled through carpet and such.
This car uses 5x7 speakers stock, and uses poor crossover techniques to deliver the tweeter and woofer an output. To do a car correctly, you'll need to run 2 pairs of wires to the door if you are running a component set, which is highly recommended. I don't recommend investing at all in rear speakers, unless you constantly have friends that are in the back that care about the music. I firmly believe that a powerful and clear front stage can take care of a car's audio needs (accompanying a subwoofer in the trunk.) I'm also a firm believer that less is more, but too little is just like none. Meaning if you are going to do anything to the audio system, you might as well do it properly and thouroughly. A lot of people just a subwoofer and call it quits, but that's typically not going to do much except get the "lows" in the car. Music has a lot more to offer then the bass, of course. Good quality equipment used throughout the system with a proper install and attention to detail will give the best results, naturally.
Honestly I went the aggressive route and decided to go fully active. That means that I don't have a passive crossover on my front speakers, which is what is typically used. A passive crossover is the box that comes with component speakers, and looks like it has coils and resistors in it. Using a setup without them makes for a lot clearer and more impactful sound, but you have to actively cross all the speakers. To do that, I chose the 3sixty.2 and its ability to change crossover levels digitally, as well as its time-alignment and equalizing abilities. This is why it costs $500+! From there, I took Cantons (a german speaker company known for crystal clear detail) and installed them in the doors in the stock locations, using a little "rigging." The sub stage is comprised of a fiberglass tub nestled into the spare tire well, and a single Linear Motor subwoofer made by Eclipse. These subs use a lot of airspace in a sealed box (1.7cubic feet for a 10"), but the results are a very capable 10" sub that behaves like a home theater 15" would, though less loud. This is all amplified with some "old-school" Planet Audio amps that use vacuum tubes (like the ones in guitar amps) in their design. A 4 channel amp powers the two 6.5" woofers and two 1" tweeters in the doors, and a 2channel amp powers the single 10" sub in a bridged-mono configuration. Power? See, watts don't matter unless you are playing VERY high levels of output. People talk watts all day long, but real output of an amp changes constantly according to the music. And volume increases with the square of wattage (power), so it takes only a few watts to get reasonably loud, and hundreds and hundreds of watts to get just a bit louder. What really counts is the amp's ability to play distortion-free at nominal to louder levels, reliably without fail. This is what counts.
You need to budget sound deadening, wiring, connectors, RCA's, either a pair of amps (4ch and sub amp) or a single 5ch amp, some sort of line level converter to turn the stock speaker output into an RCA output (if the amps do not have this feature), and possibly some sort of equalizer to level out the stock head unit's problems. Then you need to pick out a good quality component set, and a subwoofer. With a budget of at least $1000-1200, you can get what you want, which is a stealthy and clean-sounding system. But dear god don't you dare stick a sub under the seat! You might as well just buy better front speakers, it will be the same.
Best deal I've come across for sound deadening is Raammat. Raamaudio sells it, and Rick is the proprietor, a great guy. You'll want at least one roll of Raammat, and 4-6 yards of Ensolite, a nice closed-cell foam designed to cover over the Raammat and add squeak control to the doors and such. You'll also want two to three cans of adhesive spray. It is the best stuff I've come across for vinyl or carpet work as well.
Wiring wise, Knuknonceptz is very good for raw wire, both power/ground and speaker. The connectors and RCA wires (at least in the mid to lower end) leave something to be desired, but they aren't horrible. My suggestion? Run at least 4 gauge to the trunk, so you only have to do it once even if you upgrade your system. I've had best luck with Streetwires for connectors and fuse blocks. I've also had great luck with Esoteric or Rockford Fosgate RCA's. Most RCA's tend to get destroyed too easily in the auto environment while getting pulled through carpet and such.
This car uses 5x7 speakers stock, and uses poor crossover techniques to deliver the tweeter and woofer an output. To do a car correctly, you'll need to run 2 pairs of wires to the door if you are running a component set, which is highly recommended. I don't recommend investing at all in rear speakers, unless you constantly have friends that are in the back that care about the music. I firmly believe that a powerful and clear front stage can take care of a car's audio needs (accompanying a subwoofer in the trunk.) I'm also a firm believer that less is more, but too little is just like none. Meaning if you are going to do anything to the audio system, you might as well do it properly and thouroughly. A lot of people just a subwoofer and call it quits, but that's typically not going to do much except get the "lows" in the car. Music has a lot more to offer then the bass, of course. Good quality equipment used throughout the system with a proper install and attention to detail will give the best results, naturally.
Honestly I went the aggressive route and decided to go fully active. That means that I don't have a passive crossover on my front speakers, which is what is typically used. A passive crossover is the box that comes with component speakers, and looks like it has coils and resistors in it. Using a setup without them makes for a lot clearer and more impactful sound, but you have to actively cross all the speakers. To do that, I chose the 3sixty.2 and its ability to change crossover levels digitally, as well as its time-alignment and equalizing abilities. This is why it costs $500+! From there, I took Cantons (a german speaker company known for crystal clear detail) and installed them in the doors in the stock locations, using a little "rigging." The sub stage is comprised of a fiberglass tub nestled into the spare tire well, and a single Linear Motor subwoofer made by Eclipse. These subs use a lot of airspace in a sealed box (1.7cubic feet for a 10"), but the results are a very capable 10" sub that behaves like a home theater 15" would, though less loud. This is all amplified with some "old-school" Planet Audio amps that use vacuum tubes (like the ones in guitar amps) in their design. A 4 channel amp powers the two 6.5" woofers and two 1" tweeters in the doors, and a 2channel amp powers the single 10" sub in a bridged-mono configuration. Power? See, watts don't matter unless you are playing VERY high levels of output. People talk watts all day long, but real output of an amp changes constantly according to the music. And volume increases with the square of wattage (power), so it takes only a few watts to get reasonably loud, and hundreds and hundreds of watts to get just a bit louder. What really counts is the amp's ability to play distortion-free at nominal to louder levels, reliably without fail. This is what counts.
You need to budget sound deadening, wiring, connectors, RCA's, either a pair of amps (4ch and sub amp) or a single 5ch amp, some sort of line level converter to turn the stock speaker output into an RCA output (if the amps do not have this feature), and possibly some sort of equalizer to level out the stock head unit's problems. Then you need to pick out a good quality component set, and a subwoofer. With a budget of at least $1000-1200, you can get what you want, which is a stealthy and clean-sounding system. But dear god don't you dare stick a sub under the seat! You might as well just buy better front speakers, it will be the same.
Wow! Detailed, you are passionate about this.
I am going to do the sound-deadening first, as besides stereo benefits I will enjoy subconscious benefit from having a very quiet interior. You mentioned squeak control. Is Dynamat or Raammat going to squeak once installed in my doors/under the carpeting? I'm VERY familiar with adhesive spray (I like 3M) as I used to reupholster interiors sort of pro-bono in college (i.e. you do it once then all your friends come to you to do it for them too). Will matting the floor and doors give me the freedom from road sound I so desire?
Looks like it, I'm reading the Raam site. Question:
You think one roll is enough to do the whole car, floor, doors, and hatch? Not sure if the roof needs it or not...
15 inches by 50 feet on a roll is equivalent to... 15 is 1.25 ft, 1.25 by 50 (L x W) = 62.5sq ft,
Is that right?
I am going to do the sound-deadening first, as besides stereo benefits I will enjoy subconscious benefit from having a very quiet interior. You mentioned squeak control. Is Dynamat or Raammat going to squeak once installed in my doors/under the carpeting? I'm VERY familiar with adhesive spray (I like 3M) as I used to reupholster interiors sort of pro-bono in college (i.e. you do it once then all your friends come to you to do it for them too). Will matting the floor and doors give me the freedom from road sound I so desire?
Looks like it, I'm reading the Raam site. Question:
You think one roll is enough to do the whole car, floor, doors, and hatch? Not sure if the roof needs it or not...
15 inches by 50 feet on a roll is equivalent to... 15 is 1.25 ft, 1.25 by 50 (L x W) = 62.5sq ft,
Is that right?
Last edited:
fourthmeal
Banned
Yes, I am passionate. At least with audio. And I take that as a compliment.
The spray adhesive he sells is aircraft-grade. It makes 3M look like hairspray. I highly recommend it. Raammat is a great value because the product is what it is, and very little marketing or advertisement cost is involved. Dynamat Extreme is great stuff, but about 3X more costly with no real advantage in performance. The best stuff I've used ever is Second Skin, but it costs quite a bit. Still, if money isn't the object, it would be the best choice because it is lightweight and effective. For the money however, Raammat is ideal. Rick is a stand-up guy, and will make you happy you did business with him. It is his business ethics that make him so liked in the community of audio. He stands up for his product and backs it up 100%. I've got proof: I was shipped a sub-standard quality roll, and I emailed him letting him know that I wasn't pleased with it. He sent a fresh roll that performed admirably. There was an issue with the manufacturer he used, and he stood up for it.
Buy two rolls if you are doing the floor, doors, and trunk. I used 1/2 a roll on the front doors and trunk area, and I stopped there. Why? Because the weather in Vegas got too hot to work inside a garage in, and afterwards I've been unable to work on my car. Otherwise, I'd be fully covered.
Be warned, your entire car will come apart! It is best to run your speaker, rca, and power wire at the same time, since it will be this far torn down. Its another one of those all-or-nothing situations. Same thing with speakers, since the doors will come apart, and the wiring has to be run through the molex connector. See my DIYMA install on this one if you like.
fourthmeal
Banned
Tell you what, when I get back from lunch I'll come up with a solution involving price and equipment, and post it up. I'll just use readily available products on websites I trust.
