The " What Products We NEED " Thread. TUNING!

[Haltech]

OK, ive been sitting here for a week or so, going over various threads both in here and the MS6 forums. We have a few issues both MS3 and MS6 owners can help with, but more importantly, vendors!

First order of business is the MAF. IT looks like people are pegging these suckers. Sure, those that are pegging have a larger turbo. We need a larger MAF or a recal'd MAF sensor replacement. This will give a larger area of tunabiliy for those using the Standback or XEDE. Maybe the vendors can speak with SCT( Jerry at Superchips Custom ) in Florida and see if they can help them out.

Second order of business is the fuel system. Im trying to work with some MS6 guys by adding a SVT Focus pump which is high pressure intank. This is tough since there's no one local to me who is willling to play. But none the less, it appears it may be tried. Though it may NOT solve the problem, its a step in the right direction.

Third order is an EMS system that is plug n pray. I understand these connectors are hard to find, but you can get them manf'd for your needs. This is really stopping your market for people wanting an EMS. Another thing, whomever does this first is going to win in marketshare. I will not hardwire my system in, esp with todays connections via the internet, it shouldnt be this difficult obtaining electronics parts.

I think we will easily see 400-500HP MS3/MS6's in the future with some of the above hardware... Any opinions or suggestions are welcome. Please no flame wars!

 

[Craighjr]

I don't know if the svt pump from the focus will help? The 170hp focus vs 263hp speed3? Unless ours is some low flow crap because of disi? I was more thinking a sti or skyline dual intank pump setups. The second pump could feed secondary regular injectors like a non disi engine. It would be easier to weld in injector bosses than design a new disi fuel pump on the camshaft. A computer upgrade with outputs for a second set of injectors shouldn't be that bad to get up and running also.

 

[Haltech]

Well the SVT pump puts out 255 lph and is at 60 PSI. I have yet to see any data posted on the S3/S6's stock intank pump puts out. As far as going with bosses installed and using secondary injectors, you would need a standalone. Could get quite messy but for a hardcore drag racer, this would probably work out pretty good.

You may be able to retro a fuel assembly ( dual pumps ) like in an 03/04 cobra, but i have to see what the assembly looks like in our cars as is. If there is indeed a fuel regulator in there, that might make it tricky because of the lack of room.

good ideas none the less, lets keep it going fellas!

 

[SSMS3]

MAF, maybe an existing similar meter could be 'messaged' to work for our cars?

Another thought is an maf extender type device. I'm sure nobody makes one for our cars, but they are for others so it should be possible. It's a small interim device that plugs (could be hard wired if connectors are an issue) between the meter and harness that increases the voltage range significantly

Fuel pump, the Focus pump would be a reasonably inexpensive upgrade if it works and will support decent power. FWIW, my current '02 Mustang GT has a single Focus pump and makes 408/410rwhp, but it's close to being max'd out

However, I thought the separate hi-pressure fuel pump that runs off the motor is what's running out of fuel on our cars?

 

[6262MS3]

agreed, from what I've seen on this forum the engine-driven high pressure fuel pump is the hangup. Apparently it can only flow for ~315 whp or so. I was reading about the red bull solstice gxp drift car, which uses a similar pump and they're claiming about 500hp from it. Maybe our answer lies in the GM parts bin? -shudders-
Aside from that, I'd personally love to see a kit using a Garrett GT28RS "disco potato" turbo and factory boost levels (minus the limit in 2nd). I don't want too much more hp then this car has already with fwd but it would be nice to have a super-quick spooling, responsive turbo that doesn't run out of breath past 5500rpm.

 

[shucky]

additional injector controllers have been out for years, no standalone required. Ran stock fuel system in my Miata and 4 addt'l Ford Mustang injectors with an EFI Systems addt'l inj. controller. Ran flawlessly.

Further, I think looking in the VW/Audi scene is worth it to solve the high pressure pump issues. A few companys have produced big turbo kits for their 2.0T FSI engine (APR, VF Engineering) which feature upgraded high pressure fuel pump + injectors. Autotech I believe also has come up with a high flow direct injection fuel pump for the 2.0T's as well.

 

[Haltech]

additional injector controllers have been out for years, no standalone required. Ran stock fuel system in my Miata and 4 addt'l Ford Mustang injectors with an EFI Systems addt'l inj. controller. Ran flawlessly.

Further, I think looking in the VW/Audi scene is worth it to solve the high pressure pump issues. A few companys have produced big turbo kits for their 2.0T FSI engine (APR, VF Engineering) which feature upgraded high pressure fuel pump + injectors. Autotech I believe also has come up with a high flow direct injection fuel pump for the 2.0T's as well.

Got any of those VW/Audi tuner/parts sites we could look into? I want to see what they have listed for their parts. Thanks.

 

[mrlilguy157]

Got any of those VW/Audi tuner/parts sites we could look into? I want to see what they have listed for their parts. Thanks.

thread created. check mazdaspeed6 forced induction forums.

 

[Haltech]

thread created. check mazdaspeed6 forced induction forums.

(drinks) (drinks) (drinks) (drinks)

 

[Capt Crunch]

the only thing a MS3 needs at this point is an Accessport or reflash. That plus boltons + intake should be close to 300 whp, which is pretty much the most amount of power I'd want from a FWD car.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

OK, ive been sitting here for a week or so, going over various threads both in here and the MS6 forums. We have a few issues both MS3 and MS6 owners can help with, but more importantly, vendors!

First order of business is the MAF. IT looks like people are pegging these suckers. Sure, those that are pegging have a larger turbo. We need a larger MAF or a recal'd MAF sensor replacement. This will give a larger area of tunabiliy for those using the Standback or XEDE. Maybe the vendors can speak with SCT( Jerry at Superchips Custom ) in Florida and see if they can help them out.
A: A MAF clamp will be out sooner then you know. 3-4 weeks is my guess

Second order of business is the fuel system. Im trying to work with some MS6 guys by adding a SVT Focus pump which is high pressure intank. This is tough since there's no one local to me who is willling to play. But none the less, it appears it may be tried. Though it may NOT solve the problem, its a step in the right direction.
A: A redesign is being performed by 2 seperate companies, on the stock cam driven fuel pump. One i think will be out sooner then the other. The main engineer has been working on diesel trucks with DI for 15 years.

Third order is an EMS system that is plug n pray. I understand these connectors are hard to find, but you can get them manf'd for your needs. This is really stopping your market for people wanting an EMS. Another thing, whomever does this first is going to win in marketshare. I will not hardwire my system in, esp with todays connections via the internet, it shouldnt be this difficult obtaining electronics parts.
A: A P&P also, never discussed on the forums, is coming out from a company you would never expect. Full control over the throttle plate !!! For now, this company will remain nameless (naughty)

I think we will easily see 400-500HP MS3/MS6's in the future with some of the above hardware... Any opinions or suggestions are welcome. Please no flame wars!

 

[CTGrey02]

I don't know if the svt pump from the focus will help? The 170hp focus vs 263hp speed3? Unless ours is some low flow crap because of disi? I was more thinking a sti or skyline dual intank pump setups. The second pump could feed secondary regular injectors like a non disi engine. It would be easier to weld in injector bosses than design a new disi fuel pump on the camshaft. A computer upgrade with outputs for a second set of injectors shouldn't be that bad to get up and running also.

People use focus pumps on 450 HP Mustangs all the time. I don't know why they opted for such a powerful pump in a car like that, but they did. Cobra guys replace both their pumps with 2 focus pumps and can handle well over 450. They're cheap as well compared to other options out there and easily sourced at any ford dealership

 

[CTGrey02]

Second order of business is the fuel system. Im trying to work with some MS6 guys by adding a SVT Focus pump which is high pressure intank. This is tough since there's no one local to me who is willling to play. But none the less, it appears it may be tried. Though it may NOT solve the problem, its a step in the right direction.
A: A redesign is being performed by 2 seperate companies, on the stock cam driven fuel pump. One i think will be out sooner then the other. The main engineer has been working on diesel trucks with DI for 15 years.

We have a mechanical fuel pump and not an electric one??? wtf? I'm hoping I didn't understand that properly.

 

[fourthmeal]

We have a mechanical fuel pump and not an electric one??? wtf? I'm hoping I didn't understand that properly.

We have 2 pumps, in series. The first is in tank, electric, low pressure. The second is cam-driven, mechanical, high pressure. That second one is the problem right now above 320HP.

 

[Haltech]

People use focus pumps on 450 HP Mustangs all the time. I don't know why they opted for such a powerful pump in a car like that, but they did. Cobra guys replace both their pumps with 2 focus pumps and can handle well over 450. They're cheap as well compared to other options out there and easily sourced at any ford dealership

I was the first to use them in a lightning. Conversion wasnt to difficult although i had to fab up a custom clamp. Wiring was soldered using a torch because of the gauge wire being used. I have plenty of volume and pressure which helped my tuning issues. Without the these pumps, i would of been forced to go with low impendence injectors with a box to control them. 55 lb high impendence injectors werent going to work and still lean me out. The high pressure pump with high impendence injectors solved it.

Unfortunately, this pump wont solve the prob for us on these cars. Culprits the cam driven and im glad were making progress on it. Im very excited.

Cas, thanks for the updates (drive2)

 

[BLKOUT MSP]

Maf sensor: I know the subaru maf sensor uses the same flange as the MS3/MS6. Im not sure if the wiring clips are the same but it might be something to check into since there sensors can go up over 500whp. Of course what would really be nice is a speed density system so we could switch to a map senor and get rid of the maf all together. Maybe somday.