Synapse Engineering Synchronic BOV/BPV

subparpunk03 said:
Anyone know anything about this valve?

http://www.synapseengineering.com/

I haven't found much about it, just wondering if its a decent option? I've heard a few people tell me its really not all that great and that synapse engineering is not a reputable company.
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I think Ken at Protege Garage carries it, but there may be some issues with it staying open when idleing which does not work with our MAF and BOV placement.
 
they are all over youtube... search them up for vids and they have like this trial thing going on, some people doubts them, saying they bash on such a good brand like tial...
 
subparpunk03 said:
If it doesn't close during idle, can't you just run it in recirc mode?
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I guess yeah you could but you would be bypassing your turbo/intercooler if the car did draw air in throught that instead. It is only at idle that these things do stay open like that or something. Like the others have said its all over You Tube so search it out maybe it will have answers. Or read what I got from the website.

VIII. ANTI-STALL VALVE KIT (optional sold separately)
The anti-stall valve is designed for use in installations where you
want to vent the Synchronic BOV to atmosphere, but cannot due
to a sensor such as a MAF that meters the air. This kit can also be
used in installations where you do not want charge air to bypass
the turbo under vacuum conditions.
9. Anti Stall Valve
10. Anti Stall Spring
11. Anti-Stall Spring Retainer Bolt
12. Anti-Stall End Cap
 
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Craighjr said:
I think Ken at Protege Garage carries it, but there may be some issues with it staying open when idleing which does not work with our MAF and BOV placement.
Click to expand...

Actually, BOV's are supposed to stay open at idle and light load. When you first accelerate the turbo hasn't started spinning yet (turbo lag, duh). The problem is to get it spinning the engine needs to produce exhaust gases. But since the turbo hasn't started shoving air in yet you wind up with a slight predicament. By leaving the BOV open under idle and light load the engine can suck air through the filter and bypass the turbo to start it's push as an NA motor. This produces the gases that then spin the turbo and make you happy. It isn't very noticeable on the MS3/6 because the turbo is so small but on a large turbo you would be able to feel the lag difference between recirc and VTA. No matter how many times people try to justify it, VTA is for dumb ricers. MAF cars need to run recirc. You CAN set up a blow through MAF but then you are still sacrificing performance for rice.
 
kurfgator said:
Actually, BOV's are supposed to stay open at idle and light load. When you first accelerate the turbo hasn't started spinning yet (turbo lag, duh). The problem is to get it spinning the engine needs to produce exhaust gases. But since the turbo hasn't started shoving air in yet you wind up with a slight predicament. By leaving the BOV open under idle and light load the engine can suck air through the filter and bypass the turbo to start it's push as an NA motor. This produces the gases that then spin the turbo and make you happy. It isn't very noticeable on the MS3/6 because the turbo is so small but on a large turbo you would be able to feel the lag difference between recirc and VTA. No matter how many times people try to justify it, VTA is for dumb ricers. MAF cars need to run recirc. You CAN set up a blow through MAF but then you are still sacrificing performance for rice.
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Ok if you say so. I have run recirculation, hybrids, and VTA on more than one car and never had a HKS, Greddy, GFB, Turbo XS or Sard valve open at idle. Maybe other brands of valves will that I haven't seen, but so far its just Synapsis Engineerings that I know of. On a MAF car the BOV venting out must be closed simple as that. They sell anti stall kits for a reason bypassing the MAF and the car don't run. If you have a good blow through that doesn't screw up the maf reading I can't imagine how that is rice.
 
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Craighjr said:
Ok if you say so. I have run recirculation, hybrids, and VTA on more than one car and never had a HKS, Greddy, GFB, Turbo XS or Sard valve open at idle. Maybe other brands of valves will that I haven't seen, but so far its just Synapsis Engineerings that I know of. On a MAF car the BOV venting out must be closed simple as that. They sell anti stall kits for a reason bypassing the MAF and the car don't run. If you have a good blow through that doesn't screw up the maf reading I can't imagine how that is rice.
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Ok, I messed up my wording a little bit. Our factory valve (along with almost every other factory turbo car) is considered a BPV which is basically just a BOV run in recirc. When you let off the gas the valve allows the pressurized air to Bypass the intake and be returned to the intake. Under no/light throttle the valve stays open (under either of these conditions the vacuum in the intake is pulling the valve open) which allows the air to Bypass the turbo and run the car as somewhat of an N/A and gain you the benefits I mentioned above. VTA became popular because of Honda (They contribute to more rice per capita than any other car maker in history). Honda used to, not sure if they still do, rely solely on a MAP sensor to read air flow to the engine. It was cheaper to manufacturer than MAF's and Honda wanted to keep their prices low. Because these sensors are placed in the intake manifold it didn't really matter what happened before the throttle body. So when it came time to turbo these cars it didn't harm the fuel trim to run VTA. Hearing all the PSSSSSSSSH noises gave America a rice boner and people started thinking "Man, that car must be fast if it's that loud." If you are running a MAF car than recirc will give you the best performance, fuel economy, turbo response and tuning capability.

Those anti-stall modules came about because people wanted the ricer noise on their MAF equipped cars but then bitched when they ran like s***. They keep unmetered air from being sucked into the engine while the valve is open at idle. The fact that you have to buy extra parts and tune the motor a certain way to make your car run properly should give it away that VTA is just dumb. I know a lot of people find this hard to believe, but just because it's a trend doesn't make it right.

I HIGHLY recommend running the DISI motor in recirc. With the picky fuel systems and strange quirks these engines have there is no reason to make it run even weirder.
 
kurfgator said:
Ok, I messed up my wording a little bit. Our factory valve (along with almost every other factory turbo car) is considered a BPV which is basically just a BOV run in recirc. When you let off the gas the valve allows the pressurized air to Bypass the intake and be returned to the intake. Under no/light throttle the valve stays open (under either of these conditions the vacuum in the intake is pulling the valve open) which allows the air to Bypass the turbo and run the car as somewhat of an N/A and gain you the benefits I mentioned above. VTA became popular because of Honda (They contribute to more rice per capita than any other car maker in history). Honda used to, not sure if they still do, rely solely on a MAP sensor to read air flow to the engine. It was cheaper to manufacturer than MAF's and Honda wanted to keep their prices low. Because these sensors are placed in the intake manifold it didn't really matter what happened before the throttle body. So when it came time to turbo these cars it didn't harm the fuel trim to run VTA. Hearing all the PSSSSSSSSH noises gave America a rice boner and people started thinking "Man, that car must be fast if it's that loud." If you are running a MAF car than recirc will give you the best performance, fuel economy, turbo response and tuning capability.

Those anti-stall modules came about because people wanted the ricer noise on their MAF equipped cars but then bitched when they ran like s***. They keep unmetered air from being sucked into the engine while the valve is open at idle. The fact that you have to buy extra parts and tune the motor a certain way to make your car run properly should give it away that VTA is just dumb. I know a lot of people find this hard to believe, but just because it's a trend doesn't make it right.

I HIGHLY recommend running the DISI motor in recirc. With the picky fuel systems and strange quirks these engines have there is no reason to make it run even weirder.
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1st paragraph I mostly agree with. I don't argee in seeing the benifit for the valve to be open to bypass the turbo to start the spool up. The turbo is spinning once the engine is running. At idle the compressor is turning its just not building boost. 2nd tho you don't get bad driveability because vta is letting air in. You get bad drivability because vta is letting air out. The computer has already supplied fuel to burn with that air. Thats why maf cars get a rich stumbles in vta. Like I said maybe some other valves becides the Synapse Eng valve stay open. In my experance aftermarket valves stay mostly shut with slight vaccume (My gfb would hunt up and down but never open at idle). I wasn't bashing their valve at all. As it was brought up the BPV function would be unaffacted in recirculation but the BOV side in VTA would require extra parts thats all.
 
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BOV / BPV arguments aside... if I were to get this valve I would run it in recirculation mode, ANY valve I get I would run in recirculation mode.

So my question is this: Would the fact that this valve stays open during idle cause any issues if it was hooked up to run on our cars in recirculation mode?

I'm trying to think through a little bit what would happen inside the engine, please correct me if any of this is wrong (as it very likely is)

During idle, the exhaust gasses from the engine spin the turbo a little bit, but not enough to cause boost. This means that the normal path that air would follow (assuming the stock BPV stays shut at idle) is in through the filter, past the slowly spinning turbo, through the intercooler, and into the engine.

Now we introduce the BPV that stays open at idle: the air flows through the filter, past the turbo, through the IC, and then a portion of the air goes into the engine, and a portion leaks back into the intake system just after the MAF.

In the above situation, one of a couple things could happen... the natural vacuum from the engine will pull all the necessary air in and none will leak back into the pre-turbo intake tract. OR, some air WILL leak back into the intake tract and cause the engine to run a bit rich at idle?

My other question is, where exactly does the BPV bypass air to? Is it right after the maf (as I assumed above) or does it push the air after the turbo, before the intercooler? Or does it go somewhere else entirely?

Thanks for the help y'all.
 
The maf is right after the air filter, the recirc hose pipes in after the maf and before the turbo. With a valve that stays open at idle I would assume that the inlet air will either leak out the bpv before entering the throttle body and loop back around thought the turbo again. Or the car will pull air in the open bov around the turbo and intercooler. Either way is ok because the maf read the air entering the filter.
 
Sweet. I think I might give this valve a try, if for no other reason than nobody else has really tried it and it would be nice to have a review of it posted up here.

The Forge was originally at the top of my list, but I heard a youtube video of it and the sound of it would drive me absolutely nuts.

The HKS was also up there, but it seems like a LOT of people have it, and while it may be a really good BPV, I think I'm just gonna try something different and see if it works well :)
 
kurfgator said:
No matter how many times people try to justify it, VTA is for dumb ricers. MAF cars need to run recirc. You CAN set up a blow through MAF but then you are still sacrificing performance for rice.

* * *

Those anti-stall modules came about because people wanted the ricer noise on their MAF equipped cars but then bitched when they ran like s***. They keep unmetered air from being sucked into the engine while the valve is open at idle. The fact that you have to buy extra parts and tune the motor a certain way to make your car run properly should give it away that VTA is just dumb. I know a lot of people find this hard to believe, but just because it's a trend doesn't make it right.
Click to expand...

Truer words were never spoken.
 
I had this when it first came out and they made the mazdaspeed flange. In my opinion it is the best sounding bpv I've heard on this car. The bad part is on a stock TMIC, the hood/shroud rubs a hole in line that comes from the boost solenoid so every couple weeks I would end up with a boost leak. This thing is huge so if you have a aftermarket IC then you may not experience this.

Make sure you check out their forums about problems with it fitting. Mine blew off the flange once too :(. That's when I decided to get rid of it.
 
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