Stock FS-DE dyno

[Kansei]

i think a B-series in a 3rd gen chasis would be the best of both worlds; best engine coupled w/ the best chassis. might be a tough swap, though, and probably not street legal most places.

Try the engine swap and let us know

I would love to swap over to an engine that I could get at least some power from with NA mods.

 

[dmitrik4]

yeah, in my spare time. if i thought it could be done legally in SCCA Street Prepared class, i'd eventually try to take it on. but i don't think it can be done legally, and i'm not inclined to put a lot of work into a street car.

i wish mazda had just stuck with that engine in the first place, but at the same time, i'm not convinced the FS is that bad (at least on an autoX course)...3-5k is the most important range, and the FS is pretty decent there. justin (xelderx) seems to have gotten good results from his.

 

[zentrandi]

lets say a protege, with a miata engine supercharged?

 

[pluto316]

lets say a protege, with a miata engine supercharged?

Or a stock 2.0L turbo charged, you'll get the same ammount of hp per dollar.

 

[dmitrik4]

^^ agreed. if you're going to forced induction, there's no reason to swap out the engine, esp for one that will be a pain to bolt in.

porting the head on the FS will probably work wonders. it's not a bad motor; it just doesn't have all the newest tricks for making max power. but as a road motor, it works pretty well. i just wish it was smoother...the 19-year-old 4AG in my corolla is like butter in comparison.

 

[zentrandi]

I'd rather just stay N/A so im gonna go with the UDP for now and if i'm feeling ambitious i'm gonna get the JDM intake Cam and USDM intake Cam repin for the exhaust. I might even get some adjustable cam gears. If i had alot of money i would port the head and intake mani, while taking the vics out. But, if i do that might as well buy a wrecked 01 2.0ES manual and rebuild it with a built motor with high compression pistons. I'm very partial to this generation protege. I seriously cant think of getting a 3 to replace mine even though i know that for the power i want it would cost less to just get the 3... too bad it doesnt look as good as the protege IMO

is that a yay? or nay?

 

[TheMAN]

Looks like a single runner 626 manifold would help after all. At least smooth out the curve.

all the 626 manifold would do is add MORE low end torque (because it has LONG runners)... something this engine DOES NOT NEED

 

[TheMAN]

decent torque for a n/a 2.0L....

you can see that the engine just dies above about 5800...the biggest gain would probably come from opening up the breathing up there. that would help it to keep making torque at higher rpms, which is what makes real power. id' be interested to see a dyno with an intake, decent headers, and a less-restrictive exhaust. although i suspect the head itself is a big limitation as well.

that's why the celica engine makes that much power...it only makes 125 ft-lbs, but it makes that all the way up through the rev range.

the USABLE powerband has much improved with FS-ZE parts but with still a bone stock exhaust system! Just imagine what it would be like when it all gets uncorked!
http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123631471

 

[TheMAN]

B-series swap...anyone? What else would be easy to find, cheaper, more abundant aftermarket performance parts. Maybe an SR 20?
Maybe less hassles with a Ztec?

Seriously tho, what "testing" was the baseline dyno being used for?

baseline dynos are ALWAYS done to see which mod does what... it IS the proper tuning method.... not my problem if mostly everyone else doesn't spend the effort in doing that though

 

[pluto316]

baseline dynos are ALWAYS done to see which mod does what... it IS the proper tuning method.... not my problem if mostly everyone else doesn't spend the effort in doing that though

I am getting my stock MSP dynoed soon and I am not looking forward to the depressing numbers.

 

[Reffoxel]

This dyno sheet doesn't show it, but I've dyno'd my basically stock engine (only mod is a short ram intake tube). But our fuel map is seriously messed up. Absolutely horrid tuning. I'll see if I can hunt up my old dyno sheet. But our A/F is excessively lean (about 20:1) up to about 3k then plummets sharply to below 9:1 for the rest of the rpm range.

 

[Kansei]

But our A/F is excessively lean (about 20:1) up to about 3k then plummets sharply to below 9:1 for the rest of the rpm range.

More reason for me to dyno my car because with all my mods, I really need to see where my A/F is.

 

[dmitrik4]

This dyno sheet doesn't show it, but I've dyno'd my basically stock engine (only mod is a short ram intake tube). But our fuel map is seriously messed up. Absolutely horrid tuning. I'll see if I can hunt up my old dyno sheet. But our A/F is excessively lean (about 20:1) up to about 3k then plummets sharply to below 9:1 for the rest of the rpm range.

oy. i wonder how much could be gained simply by tuning the A/F ratio and using better gas.

 

[Reffoxel]

I imagine proper tuning of A/F ratio will help alot. better gas. nada unless you're going to be tuning the timing as well. All higher octane does is allow you to run more timing, timing will give you more power. In some cars running higher octane than what it's tuned for can sometimes even reduce performance, depending on cylinder head design and the timing tune.

 

[Reffoxel]

Well apparently I miss remembered the numbers but you can see by the chart it's still a horrid a/f fuel map.

 

[pluto316]

Well apparently I miss remembered the numbers but you can see by the chart it's still a horrid a/f fuel map.

What tha...

 

[Earful]

My dyno run has similar A/F curves....mine doesnt start that lean tho. DSM AFC on the way....

 

[Kansei]

Well apparently I miss remembered the numbers but you can see by the chart it's still a horrid a/f fuel map.

oh god that's terrible. It's like it hits 4.5k and the ECU goes "OMG MOAR FUEL!!!!!111!1!!!1"

 

[dmitrik4]

I imagine proper tuning of A/F ratio will help alot. better gas. nada unless you're going to be tuning the timing as well. All higher octane does is allow you to run more timing, timing will give you more power. In some cars running higher octane than what it's tuned for can sometimes even reduce performance, depending on cylinder head design and the timing tune.

i'm not sure why i added "better fuel." i think i had it in my head that a leaner A/F's increased combustion chamber temps would tend to promote detonation, which the higher octane would inhibit. i do wonder about the timing as well, though.

maybe the rich top end is to keep the exhaust gas temps down going into the pre-cat.

 

[Reffoxel]

Actually having a too rich of a mixture could actually cause problems for the cats as the un burnt fuel will harm that catalytic material. Had that problem in another car of mine when I put in larger injectors but sorta took a long time getting around to wiring in a piggyback to control them properly. Caused the cat to melt down and create a resitriction issue. ended up cutting out the cat and replacing it with some straight pipe, as I was (and still) having problems wiring in the piggy back since it hadn't been tried on this particular vehicle (am putting unichip on a dodge shadow 3.0V6)

i'm not sure why i added "better fuel." i think i had it in my head that a leaner A/F's increased combustion chamber temps would tend to promote detonation, which the higher octane would inhibit. i do wonder about the timing as well, though.

maybe the rich top end is to keep the exhaust gas temps down going into the pre-cat.