Someone help and correct if wrong

kcagle

Member
Since I am now obsessing about this little car and will happen to be in the market for a new just as its being released, I decided to do a little research. No matter what I do, I always try to learn as much as possible before I embark.

Ok, based on what I've learned...the quoted toque for the MS pro must be way off. I used a calculator and came out with estimated hp of 132 with their quoted spec. Am I missing something?

Based on the weight and quoted hp the 1/4 mile should be ~14.9. That sounds about right for this class.

I'm really interested in creating more HP from the turbo. Does anyone know how much boost they tuned it for? I knew nothing about the details of turbos other than they ran off exhaust gas. But now that I'm learning, it looks like this turbo should be able to safely produce about 10psi, but no more b/c that makes the compression 15.1:1 Isn't that the max an engine should safely produce? Does the intercooler change these numbers any?

And first and foremost...how much money will it cost to get the boost up that high and what would be the safest way to do it?

Any input would be greatly appreciated
 

MP3-E

Member
:
MP3 #1247
From what I have heard is that the boost is low something like 5-6 psi. And the compression is at about 9:1:1. but those numbers could be wrong.
 

APEXistud

Member
:
1990 Mazda Miata
From what I've been estimating the MS-P will be running anywhere from 5-8 PSI due to the fact that they haven't said anything about fuel delivery as of yet. I don't think that it will run a 14.9 with only 170 hp. Now if that 170 is at the wheels and not the crank, then that 14.9 will be more realistic. If you think about it, the RSX Type-S and the Celica GT-S which both have more power than the MS-P sprint down the 1320 in the 15's range. (RSX average 15 flat & GT-S average 15.4) So, taking those numbers into consideration and assuming that the 170 is at the fly (which should translate to 141-148whp) you can expect the MS-P to run a 15.4-15.7. I'm not saying that I'm 100% correct, but if you crunch the numbers, that's about what you should get.
 

eeterp

Member
The new MR2 spyder makes about 140hp and runs 15.1s in the 1/4 mile as does the second generation eclipse which has about 210 hp (obviously weight is a major factor with the MR2). It's hard to guess what 1/4mile time the car will run but, 15.XX is a good estimation.

I know the MS Pro will have a FMIC (front mount intercooler) but, it will probably be similar to the one on eclipses and supras, which is tucked in the front corner of the bumper. You can replace this with a large FMIC that fills the air dam, which may allow you to boost up. All the usuals will help: down pipe, UIC pipe, blow off valve (upgrade for holding more boost), boost controller, and MOST IMPORTANTLY a T28 turbo to replace the T25. :D

Oh, and you'll probably want to upgrade the fuel system.

Prices depend on if you want new or used stuff........
 

BigBlue

Member
Contributor
See it's exactly those reasons that while it may be cool the MSP will come with a factory turbo, the fact that you'll have to just go ahead and replace a lot of it seems to me almost like a waste when you could just go the custom turbo route and get all the parts you want to begin with.
 

chdesign

Member
eeterp said:
The new MR2 spyder makes about 140hp and runs 15.1s in the 1/4 mile as does the second generation eclipse which has about 210 hp (obviously weight is a major factor with the MR2). It's hard to guess what 1/4mile time the car will run but, 15.XX is a good estimation.

I know the MS Pro will have a FMIC (front mount intercooler) but, it will probably be similar to the one on eclipses and supras, which is tucked in the front corner of the bumper. You can replace this with a large FMIC that fills the air dam, which may allow you to boost up. All the usuals will help: down pipe, UIC pipe, blow off valve (upgrade for holding more boost), boost controller, and MOST IMPORTANTLY a T28 turbo to replace the T25. :D

Oh, and you'll probably want to upgrade the fuel system.

Prices depend on if you want new or used stuff........
I agree with all that the T28 and all but one thing is wonrg...their idea of a front mount is tucked beside the radiator soaking up the ehat from it. I looked at pics of the intercooler thinking I might use it.....ummm no that thing is wimpy. I'm going true front mount not half-assed
 
first post here, but like you were asking. The turbo is small, t25 isnt as big as they get, but theyre not awful. It may be possible to swap in a t3/4 and get some more juice.

If the the compression is 9:1 like some were saying, detonation shouldnt be a problem. All speculation, but of the cars Im considering (even the RSX for which I am the administrator at its website), this car offers way more in the way of tunability, but its not as popular as the WRX. Thumbs up in my book.
 

APEXistud

Member
:
1990 Mazda Miata
If you were to slap a t3/t4 on to the MS-P, you would most likely notice a considerable increase in lag. I think the T25 will be fine for most people. Just remember, the weak link in our Protege is the transmission. Even the MS-P reps at International Auto Salon said the tranny wasn't all that great.
 

CharlieP5

Member
Can You Upgrade the Turbo?
What about the internals? I thought these were not Forged!
I think this is the weakest link since it's not going to be able to go higher than 8psi...
 

BigBlue

Member
Contributor
I plan to upgrade my internals as part of my turbo install(expensive I know) as even at lower boost I wonder if over time the stress might be too much for them.
 
Lag, personally, I like the kick to the pants. Depending on the cars ability to keep in the turbo on upshifts, a little bit of lag may not be such a bad thing. Noone will know for now, but a chip/boost controller and maybe some bigger injectors will go a long way in giving a lot more power.
I know the Civic Si uses the t3/4 turbo in the I believe, GReddy kit. The last guy I saw who came to my show had a one set up and said he had no problem keeping it on boil. All from a 1.6 liter engine. Depending on the flow capacity of your engine, Ill bet a t3/4, intercooler, injectors, and some way of contolling it all, all from a 2.0, you might be able to get 225 hp to the wheels.

All my speculation does little good though. I dont know a whole lot about the protege. Weak tranny is not good news. Supposedly, the scooby doesn't have much of a good tranny either, itll "ONLY" take about 400 ft/lbs before it chews its own teeth. Thats considered a weak tranny. What is the problem with the Pro? (curious)
 

kcagle

Member
Yeah, where will the weak link be when this one comes out? They are upgrading the clutch and the driveshaft. Is it in the Flywheel?
Doesn't a company already make an upgrade to the flywheel for the pro?
 

spoolinmp3

Member
Contributor
The turbo is small, t25 isnt as big as they get, but theyre not awful. It may be possible to swap in a t3/4 and get some more juice.
A t3/4 with a -60housing will get you spool up time in the 5000rpm range........not good for our 7000rpm redline motors
I know the Civic Si uses the t3/4 turbo in the I believe, GReddy kit. The last guy I saw who came to my show had a one set up and said he had no problem keeping it on boil. All from a 1.6 liter engine. Depending on the flow capacity of your engine,
A greddy kit utlizes mitsubishi turbos, not garretts. The honda kits are running 18g mitsu turbos. And a honda(vtec) has a higher redline so a larger turbo compliments the nature of that engine. I am assuming a 1.6l vtec produces more exhuast energy then our fs 2.o liters
 
spoolinmp3 said:

A t3/4 with a -60housing will get you spool up time in the 5000rpm range........not good for our 7000rpm redline motors

A greddy kit utlizes mitsubishi turbos, not garretts. The honda kits are running 18g mitsu turbos. And a honda(vtec) has a higher redline so a larger turbo compliments the nature of that engine. I am assuming a 1.6l vtec produces more exhuast energy then our fs 2.o liters

I quoted the wrong kit, as I stated I believed it was the GReddy. It was actually the Drag kit that has the t3/4. I know of a guy who has no problem keeping it on boil in not the B16 (8000, 160hp dohc vtec), but actually in his D16 engine (7000 rpm redline and SOHC VTEC).

I cant imagine a 127 hp powerplant, with .4 liters less of displacement producing more exhaust energy, but Im not an engineer.

The possibility Im sure is there if you want it. Something I know Id end up doing if I got the MS