Off Topic So slow I'm ashamed...

7eregrine

The man, the myth, the legend
:
Land of Cleve
:
2016.5 CX5
Now that I have an issue with. You do not need to OC that rig. Zero reason to do that. Maybe in 3 or 4 years when it's starting to age, maybe. But to OC for zero reason other then... to OC. Stop. Stop right there and start gaming bro. :D
 

ColoradoDriver

2014 CX-5 Touring AWD - 119k miles
Contributor
:
Denver, CO
Now that I have an issue with. You do not need to OC that rig. Zero reason to do that. Maybe in 3 or 4 years when it's starting to age, maybe. But to OC for zero reason other then... to OC. Stop. Stop right there and start gaming bro. :D
You do know I am on some OCing and Enthusiast forums too right? Its kinda like gaming as I also joined their HWBot team - like competitive overclocking with others from the forum. :cool:

Anyway, don't worry, I am working on downloading games again on the new rig, so will be doing that soon enough! Now looking forward to playing Control, CP2077, Flight Sim, and some others that have been sitting. Then will see what else is out that looks interesting.
 
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ColoradoDriver

2014 CX-5 Touring AWD - 119k miles
Contributor
:
Denver, CO
Oh hey, yeah been playing Control, downloaded Cyberpunk, Red Dead Redemption 2, and Horizon Zero Dawn. That said, have had very little gaming free time over the past couple of weeks.
 

CTt3P5

TAD
Contributor
:
2016 GT ST 47A
The boy child has been putting together a wish list for a new build. The last update was $38xx which included a new Ben Jon monitor for gaming and he would use the LGs for streaming, browsing. :eek:

He told me the other night that he is dropping frames and can no longer stream due to this. He has no issues gaming online (thank goodness). That would def. be end of the day type feelings for him. haha

Off the top of my head, his new rig includes:

- NZXT H7 something something case.
- Nvidia 3090ti Founders Edition (he is currently begging for me to buy as it is on sale for only $100 more than the 3090 and he likes the clean look of the Founders Edition). I asked about the 3080ti as it is very similar in spec but then he dropped the 12gb vs 24gb and kuda cores logic on me. He (and I ) both know that a 3090ti is overkill for his current use but guess it is better to futureproof. /endrambling
- 1000w PSU not sure of brand, he just informed me that the 3090ti will require it.
- Switching from Intel to AMD for CPU but I forget the numbers he rattled off.
- He has mentioned at least three or four motherboards so no idea which one is at the top of the list today.
- NZXT fans and AIO cooler.
- T-something or other RAM. The Porsche of ram, his words.

Sorry for not having all of the specifics but he has been rattling off so much information it is boggling my brain. One minute, it was a full size case and he was going to run two PCs within, one for gaming/one for streaming. Then that was too much so it was and NZXT H5 case then the H7 as it can run more fans and that is before we get to the GPUs. Is there an emoji for pulling one's hair out?:LOL:

Dad has benefited from him buying a second LG monitor though. I just brought his old Samsung T55 27" curved monitor along with our old 29" Samsung TV from the bedroom to my office to replace my dual 21" monitors. :D
Monitors1.jpeg
 
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7eregrine

The man, the myth, the legend
:
Land of Cleve
:
2016.5 CX5
The boy child has been putting together a wish list for a new build. The last update was $38xx which included a new Ben Jon monitor for gaming and he would use the LGs for streaming, browsing. :eek:

He told me the other night that he is dropping frames and can no longer stream due to this. He has no issues gaming online (thank goodness). That would def. be end of the day type feelings for him.

Dropping frames. Unable to... stream.... on his, what... 1 year old rig?
What service is he streaming on? How many followers? Is he making money on this?
Sorry, but I gotta kind of call BS on this that he needs an upgrade now.
 

CTt3P5

TAD
Contributor
:
2016 GT ST 47A
Dropping frames. Unable to... stream.... on his, what... 1 year old rig?
What service is he streaming on? How many followers? Is he making money on this?
Sorry, but I gotta kind of call BS on this that he needs an upgrade now.
I do not know answers to type of service and followers but know that he isn't making any money yet but he would like to one day.

My wife and I both called BS too and told him that we aren't paying for the upgrades/new rig. When he first mentioned it, it had something to do with the capabilities of the 2060.🤷‍♂️
 

7eregrine

The man, the myth, the legend
:
Land of Cleve
:
2016.5 CX5
People game and stream on FAR FAR less capable equipment.
I'm sure it's probably Twitch he's streaming on.

From Twitch: "Most mid-tier computers (including PCs and Macs) should be able to run a basic game, webcam/audio software, and your broadcasting software."
(his current rig is NOT mid tier) and
"While many streamers choose to show their facial reactions while they stream, you certainly don’t have to! However, if you do plan to stream with a camera, you don’t need to start with the most high-end option. What you should consider however, are aspects like camera location, angle, lighting, and positioning. These can enhance even the most basic camera without breaking the bank." (Yea, lighting and angles are more important than equipment)

From PCWorld re: Twitch
"Twitch recommends that your PC has at least an Intel Core i5-4670 or the AMD equivalent, and 8GB of RAM. Your graphics card isn't as important a consideration for streaming, but Twitch says it should be at least DirectX 10 compatible. Though if you want to play a modern game, DirectX 11 or 12 is required"

OBS is one of the most common Streaming software to use and the minimum RAM is... 4GB.
They write this stuff so as many people as possible can use it. You don't need ANYTHING high end. And you absolutely do not need... the Porsche of RAM. That is easily the biggest waste of money in ANY build. You know what people LOVE about Trident RAM? It lights up better then anyone else.

Don't be fooled dad. His rig is fine. ;)
 
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:
Montreal
:
2022 CX-5 GT
The boy child has been putting together a wish list for a new build. The last update was $38xx which included a new Ben Jon monitor for gaming and he would use the LGs for streaming, browsing. :eek:

He told me the other night that he is dropping frames and can no longer stream due to this. He has no issues gaming online (thank goodness). That would def. be end of the day type feelings for him. haha

Off the top of my head, his new rig includes:

- NZXT H7 something something case.
- Nvidia 3090ti Founders Edition (he is currently begging for me to buy as it is on sale for only $100 more than the 3090 and he likes the clean look of the Founders Edition). I asked about the 3080ti as it is very similar in spec but then he dropped the 12gb vs 24gb and kuda cores logic on me. He (and I ) both know that a 3090ti is overkill for his current use but guess it is better to futureproof. /endrambling
- 1000w PSU not sure of brand, he just informed me that the 3090ti will require it.
- Switching from Intel to AMD for CPU but I forget the numbers he rattled off.
- He has mentioned at least three or four motherboards so no idea which one is at the top of the list today.
- NZXT fans and AIO cooler.
- T-something or other RAM. The Porsche of ram, his words.

Sorry for not having all of the specifics but he has been rattling off so much information it is boggling my brain. One minute, it was a full size case and he was going to run two PCs within, one for gaming/one for streaming. Then that was too much so it was and NZXT H5 case then the H7 as it can run more fans and that is before we get to the GPUs. Is there an emoji for pulling one's hair out?:LOL:

Dad has benefited from him buying a second LG monitor though. I just brought his old Samsung T55 27" curved monitor along with our old 29" Samsung TV from the bedroom to my office to replace my dual 21" monitors. :D

I just wanted to make a couple of comments.
I currently have an i9-12900K, 64 gigabytes of RAM, RTX3080, Fractal Torrent computer case and a 750W power supply. While I play games every now and then, I mainly use it for work. I'm a computer engineer and I use a variety of computers for work and personal use.

We don't know much about his current computer, but you mentioned a 2060. It is a mid tier card. While it's capable, I could see it causing problems while streaming; depending on the game, settings etc.
That being said, we don't know if the graphics card is causing this. It could be the processor, RAM etc.

I won't comment on the case, but don't buy a case because it's expensive and looks good. Airflow is really important, and I recommend you check out GamersNexus on YouTube. They do scientific case tests.

3090Ti Founders Edition: That is just not a good idea for two reasons. One, a kid won't POSSIBLY need a 3090Ti even if they stream. Secondly, 4000 series graphics cards are coming out, it's really not a good idea to buy a 3090Ti now. Not even a 3090. I wouldn't get anything beyond a 3080Ti, and IMO a kid doesn't really need one. Due to diminishing returns, you get less and less for your money as you go up. Also, there is no futureproofing in computers, especially if you're gaming.

You mentioned an AMD CPU, they usually cost less and perform well. But if you do decide to get the 3090Ti (which is not a great idea, again) you might just as well try to maximize the performance you get from it and go with Intel.

Don't overspend on motherboards. Make sure that the chipset on it is not the lowest-tier, and just read a couple of reviews to check about durability.

1000W PSU, sure you would need it if you get a 3090Ti. It needs to be one that can handle all the power spikes that the 3090Ti will pull.

Fans, AIO cooler, I understand. I prefer air cooling (cheaper, easier to maintain, performs 90% as good) but I understand the advantages of water cooling.

There is no such thing as the Porsches of RAM. RAM sticks have memory chips on them which are made by a handful of companies. RAM frequency and timings might make a difference, but you absolutely don't need the most expensive RAM out there.

Obviously it'll be a great computer, but I think you can build a computer that performs just as well for what he's going to do for half the price. You could also just upgrade the graphics card instead of the whole computer.

Seems like this is going to be his show-off computer with all the RGB in the world. This is all familiar to me, I was that kid a decade ago. I'm happy my dad told me off and eventually built a more reasonable computer for me.
 

ColoradoDriver

2014 CX-5 Touring AWD - 119k miles
Contributor
:
Denver, CO
Ok, I have a 5900X, 3080 Ti FE, 32GB RAM, 1000W PSU, among other things.

What kid needs a 3090 Ti? Not to mention the 40-series is due to launch probably in the September/October timeframe at which point you'll be able to get a 30-series card for even cheaper, or wait and see what the next gen stuff looks like. I honestly barely justified shelling out for a 3080 Ti (though admittedly got it for a trade and a steal, at the time). Honestly when it comes to 3090 Ti, it's hot, heavy, loud, and power hungry. Leave 3090 iT's to the hardcore overclockers/benchmarkers. At this stage, I wouldn't honestly look at anything above a 3080 12GB as its basically almost a 3080 Ti.

Yes its true you will want a 1000w PSU for a 3080 Ti or above. This is due to the fact that these cards have horrendous power spikes, called transients, that can trip the overpower protection on PSU's that can't handle the spikes.

There is no such thing as the Porsches of RAM. RAM sticks have memory chips on them which are made by a handful of companies. RAM frequency and timings might make a difference, but you absolutely don't need the most expensive RAM out there.

I do agree with your conclusion, however, there are absolutely differences in RAM if talking say Samsung B-die vs Hynix CJR/DJR, vs Micron B/A/E/H/D-die, etc. and what you can get out of the sticks in terms of tighter timings and frequency. I believe the Team Group is what he is referring to, and probably talking about a Samsung B-die kit which if thinking of switching to AMD, Ryzen can gain like ~5% sometimes more performance gaming with properly tuned RAM. That said, its just ~5% though and not necessarily worth the extra cost of a good B-die kit.

Also I am not sure why he'd be looking at AMD right now. 12th gen Intel is definitely the better buy at the moment, if you go for the right stuff, and higher performant platform outside of maybe the 5800X3D (strictly talking gaming) but even then there are caveats. That said, the one caveat I add to that is that Intel's new LGA 1700 socket retention system sucks and many have issues properly cooling the full chip without having hot spots.

But honestly, I think @7eregrine is right. His rig is not that old, upgrade a couple of things and call it good. Also this is just a philosophical thing for me, but I don't think its a good idea to just give a kid the best of the best all the time. I don't recall how old you said he was, but my first self-built rigs were definitely decidedly lower end to mid-range at the time I built them, with my own money, and I was happy as it was better than the piece of s*** I was using before and the POS I was using before that. As I got more money and such I could afford to get nicer graphics cards, or update my platform. It taught me to appreciate value where it could be found as often top end products are just horrendous value and not actually worth it over something a tier or two down. Case in point, look at the actual gaming performance difference between a 3080 and a 3090. It's no where near enough to justify the cost difference. Like back in the day, I got an 8800 GT instead of the GTX. It was almost the same performance at a much lower cost. You learn that sort of stuff.

Also it's only really worth buying high end if you are going to use that computer for multiple years before buying a new one. I get the sense that he'll be asking for a 4090 Ti shortly after getting a 3090 Ti.

And I just want to add, if the streaming is not making money, why do a cost sink like that into it? Plenty of streamers get by on less and there's no reason to go that big unless its proven to be a reliable avenue for money-making. A 2060 is definitely mid-range, so maybe upgrade it, but you definitely do not need a whole new computer and what resolution is he gaming at? You might be fine with a 3070 Ti frankly if not doing 4k.
 
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7eregrine

The man, the myth, the legend
:
Land of Cleve
:
2016.5 CX5
A 1070 video card could easily handle what he is doing... and a 2060 is better then a 1070.
We don't know much about his current computer, but you mentioned a 2060. It is a mid tier card. While it's capable, I could see it causing problems while streaming; depending on the game, settings etc.
That being said, we don't know if the graphics card is causing this. It could be the processor, RAM etc.
The only thing I disagree with. A 2060 is mid range, true, but it's still better then, I promise you, 50% (personal estimate) of what current Twitch streamers are probably using. Kid is not 'losing frames'.
There are streamers still using 1070's. And 970's. And low end AMD cards. And a 2060 is a bit better then a 1070.
 
:
Montreal
:
2022 CX-5 GT
I do agree with your conclusion, however, there are absolutely differences in RAM if talking say Samsung B-die vs Hynix CJR/DJR, vs Micron B/A/E/H/D-die, etc. and what you can get out of the sticks in terms of tighter timings and frequency. I believe the Team Group is what he is referring to, and probably talking about a Samsung B-die kit which if thinking of switching to AMD, Ryzen can gain like ~5% sometimes more performance gaming with properly tuned RAM. That said, its just ~5% though and not necessarily worth the extra cost of a good B-die kit.
I didn't mean to say there is no difference between RAM sticks. Chips, frequency and timings are all important, but RGB isn't. He probably wants Trident sticks, and to be fair if he doesn't want RGB, they are around 10% more expensive than others. Then it's fully worth it. As you said though, I wouldn't pay double to possibly get a 5% increase.

A 1070 video card could easily handle what he is doing... and a 2060 is better then a 1070.

The only thing I disagree with. A 2060 is mid range, true, but it's still better then, I promise you, 50% (personal estimate) of what current Twitch streamers are probably using. Kid is not 'losing frames'.
There are streamers still using 1070's. And 970's. And low end AMD cards. And a 2060 is a bit better then a 1070.
We're on the same page, and I agree with what you're saying. A 2060 is most probably enough for him. Technically though, if he wants to play (say Cyberpunk for example) and stream in 1440p, he's going to have problems for sure. Or if he has ray tracing on. Obviously, the easy answer is to tune down settings and/or go down to 1080p - but he is technically right. And if you were to go to him and say "no you're not dropping frames", he can easily prove otherwise.
 

ColoradoDriver

2014 CX-5 Touring AWD - 119k miles
Contributor
:
Denver, CO
A 1070 video card could easily handle what he is doing... and a 2060 is better then a 1070.

The only thing I disagree with. A 2060 is mid range, true, but it's still better then, I promise you, 50% (personal estimate) of what current Twitch streamers are probably using. Kid is not 'losing frames'.
There are streamers still using 1070's. And 970's. And low end AMD cards. And a 2060 is a bit better then a 1070.
I have no idea what Twitch streamers are using, but just talking the majority of Steam gamers, all one has to do is look at the Steam hardware survey, the 2060 is in the #4 slot behind the 1050 Ti, 1650, and at #1? The 1060. 3080 is way down at #16. The majority of gamers are using mid-range. For context, the 6GB 1060 is about the performance equivalent of a 980.


On another note, I ordered a 48" LG C1 on sale to be my new monitor. I was really holding off as I thought it would be too big, but price was right and wife talked me into it. :D I guess I should have gotten that other one when I had the chance.
 
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CTt3P5

TAD
Contributor
:
2016 GT ST 47A
Thanks for the replies and the information. He is streaming on Twitch using OBS and does play Apex. haha Not sure what resolution he is using and where the frames are dropping. He paid for his current rig and will pay for his next one too. Mom and dad are not footing the bill. I do my part by paying my ISP each month. ;)

Since I last posted he has changed his mind about the case to the Corsair 4000D AirPro back to the NZXT H7 and now back to the NZXT H5. He also changed his mind about the CPU to the Intel I9 12900K and then said he may use the AMD Ryzen9 5950X. For these two reasons alone, his mother and I have both told him to take a step back and wait. At this point, I believe he just wants a new rig and trying to justify it for both himself and us but he is so undecided that it would be dumb for him to do so. He would no sooner build the new one and then say that he should have used this component or that one and have buyers remorse. Yes, Trident RAM is what he told me and yes one reason was for the RGB. I do have to admit it looked very nice compared to others. Oh, he also changed his fan selection. Nothing major but going from full RGB fans to fans with only an RGB ring. I told him it looked cleaner.

@ColoradoDriver Enjoy that new C1!