Shifting directly from 1st to 3rd

Jusher

Member
Like others here I've been struggling a bit with the smoothness of the 1st to 2nd shift. Part of the problem for me may well be that this is my first manual car in a decade and I'm getting re-acquainted with it. But today I thought I'd exploit the engine's high torque a little and see how shifting directly from 1st to 3rd went for me around town (not trying for quick starts, just typical around-town driving). It seems very smooth to me, and the engine doesn't bog at all - even if I don't shift out of 1st at more than 3500-4000 revs or so.

Are others doing this? It'd be great to get your thoughts. I imagine I'm paying a bit of a price in terms of fuel economy (being out of the optimum rev range for 3rd gear when I arrive there), but then again it seems going through second is pretty jerky and second is so short anyhow, maybe fuel economy might be relatively unimpacted.

Anyhow, it'd be great to get any thoughts. Apart from the jerkiness from 1-2 (which isn't super bad, it just makes me feel a bit amateurish (which I am :)), this is an amazing car.

Thanks

Jonathan
 
i do it all the time.1-3-5-6sometimes 2-4-6 im not to sure how its effecting fuel econnomy iv read studys that said to use all gears ov also read some that say you dont have to use all gears. i notice ihave to do a slower shift match revs.
 
Honestly, I think the jerkiness is the driver. :) Meaning your manual tranny skills. I really don't have much of a problem, but then again, I've driven nothing but a 4-cylinder, stick shift for the past 5 cars over 16 years. Practice makes perfect. It won't get any smoother trying to avoid the situation. Try shifting from 1st to 2nd at about 4k to 4.5k RPM so that 2nd falls into the power band instead of being bogged into the 1.5-2k range (if that is what you are doing). Don't be afraid to use RPM. I'm not telling you to floor it up to 4k, but using part throttle up to that point is not doing harm to the car. Most of the time the jerkiness comes from not shifting quick enough and allowing the car to slow down in between shifts so that you're going too slow for the next gear once you lift up on the clutch.
 
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i agree w/ frequent flyer. try fully engaging 2nd gear before you touch the gas, that way it's real smooth like a baby's ass

If i'm doing anything over 5mph i start in 2nd. The car has soo much torque there is really no sense in starting in first, since it is such a low gear.
 
The person who taught me how to drive (Salesman at the dealership lol) Told me to go from 1st to 3rd for a smoother ride. This was my first ever manual car .... poor Speed 3. I'm sorry :'(

I agree with Flyer though, At first I wasn't very smooth shifting from 1st-2nd, but after time it came to me.

SU MM makes the ride vibrate like hell when I'm in 2nd around 5-7 mph though ...
 
I often go 1, 2, 3, then either 5th or 6th, depending on the hurry. If 3d gets me to the speed I need, I'll shift to 5th or 6th.
 
skipping gears may in fact be better for fuel economy. the vette and new challenger have that skip-shift (a solenoid that prevents shifting from 1st into 2nd or 3rd during normal driving). the reason they do that is so they can pass certain regulations for fuel economy and gas guzzlers.
 
skipping gears may in fact be better for fuel economy. the vette and new challenger have that skip-shift (a solenoid that prevents shifting from 1st into 2nd or 3rd during normal driving). the reason they do that is so they can pass certain regulations for fuel economy and gas guzzlers.

I'd have to tear that solenoid out!
 
i agree w/ frequent flyer. try fully engaging 2nd gear before you touch the gas, that way it's real smooth like a baby's ass

If i'm doing anything over 5mph i start in 2nd. The car has soo much torque there is really no sense in starting in first, since it is such a low gear.

Only use first if I'm at a dead stop, and almost immediately shift into second. I hate first gear in just about every manual I've driven (argh)
 
skipping gears may in fact be better for fuel economy. the vette and new challenger have that skip-shift (a solenoid that prevents shifting from 1st into 2nd or 3rd during normal driving). the reason they do that is so they can pass certain regulations for fuel economy and gas guzzlers.

It's not. I've tried it.
 
getting 1st to 2nd smooth is more throttle control than anything. If you're doing economy driving and shifting at around 2800-3000 rpm in first, then what I'd do is blip the throttle a little bit right as the clutch engages when going from 1-2 and then after blipping for a short time, gradually increase throttle. maybe I'm the only one that does this but its just something that I've picked up as I tried to make the ride smoother in this car (which is really hard compared to other m/t i've driven)
 
lots to talk about here...

first off, as for getting smooth shifts into 2nd, you can do it, it just takes practice as previously mentioned. this car is pretty fickle as far as shifts go, but once you get used to it, you can actually shift it smoother than any 5 speed ive driven (94 celica was my old daily driver, and my dad's 01ish subaru outback). my technique to get smooth shifts varies depending on how quickly im accelerating. if im taking off quickly, i find it shifts smoothly if you do give it some gas just as its about to engage. you dont need much tho, any heavy gas before its fully engaged will really work the clutch and make it slip prematurely. make the shift quick too, cuz again as mentioned before, that jerk will often come if you wait too long and the rpm drop back down to below the point you wanted to shift at. if im just farting around and shortshifting, my 1-2 shift is completely different. i'll only run it to about 3k rpm, even lower sometimes. as you're bringing your foot down on the clutch, keep on the gas until you hit the catch point and then let off the gas, as that will keep the car from lurching during the first part of the shift. then take your time shifting to second, let the up nice and slow through the catch point (not too slow, too much slipping on it is never good for the car, but just enough to keep the shift smooth). once i got used to the long travel of the clutch pedal, the ease at which it moves, and the release point, i havent really had any trouble shifting. once in a while when im not paying attention, i'll get the lurch and jerk, but just make sure to take notice when you make a good shift, figure out what you did right to make it happen, and try and replicate it every time.

second, i like the idea of starting out in 2nd when possible better than skipping 2 and going straight to 3rd from 1st. its a PITA to engage 1st from any sort of roll, so if you have any speed at all, drop it into second, accelerate slowly till it gets up into more of the powerband so you dont bog the motor too much (~2.2k seems ok to me) and then just continue on. much easier than having to deal with first from a roll. much like lestat, ive never been a fan of 1st gear in any car.

finally, no, skipping gears will not help your gas mileage unless it keeps you from wringing it out through each gear, which you shouldnt be doing anyway if youre that concerned about mileage. there are a ton of ways to boost mileage, but skipping gears isnt one of them. when shifted properly (by properly i obviously mean that applying to optimal mileage shifts, not performance shifts) through every gear, you should be able to shift up at about 2.8k which will drop you back to ~2k. of course acceleration should be slow and smooth, because goosing it to 3k wastes a lot more gas than taking it easier to 4k, so watch that too. there are a bunch of other ways to increase your gas mileage, but as far as shifting goes, thats the only way IMO. skipping wont help.

feel free to disagree, but to me it seems clear that revving the motor higher to make the 2 gear gap on the shift won't do anything but dump more fuel than using all the gears. i average about 25mpg (calculated, not from the on-board computer) around town here, which is mostly smaller roads, nothing over 55mph speed limit, moderate stop and go, but nowhere near as bad as city driving. i'd be willing to bet, though, that i could push over 30 mpg out of the MS3 daily driving, no interstate / highway miles. haven't tried doing a MPG tank, but i think 30 mpg is certainly an attainable goal for this car if driven right.

problem is, this car doesnt deserve to be treated like that. IMO there's no point in buying a performance car if you're gonna drive around with a stick up your ass trying to get 30 mpg. 25 mpg is still pretty good, and that's with me taking it up to 4-5k to throw my head back and giving the tire sidewalls some action through tight corners. to me the car just begs to be driven with vigor because it responds so fluidly to everything i do to it. i'll take the head snapping boost and shoulder throwing turns over trying to get an extra 5 mpg and driving like an old lady. go get a smart car for that.

/end novel. i apologize for the long windedness (stfu)
 
I might skip gears merging onto a highway, blasting down the onramp in 3rd, going to 4th, then backing off and going right to 6th. But why skip the early gears? If it's not smooth, just practice until you do it better. Those gears are all there for a reason, and presumably we all like driving stick because it's fun, right? First is there for launching the car, so use it. Second is there for proper acceleration up to traffic speed and most cornering situations on the road, so use that, too.

Why make a habit of skipping gears? It's less fuel efficient, less fun, and avoiding gears because you're not smooth with them yet sounds like you need a driver mod, not a change to your shifting patterns.
 
I might skip gears merging onto a highway, blasting down the onramp in 3rd, going to 4th, then backing off and going right to 6th. But why skip the early gears? If it's not smooth, just practice until you do it better. Those gears are all there for a reason, and presumably we all like driving stick because it's fun, right? First is there for launching the car, so use it. Second is there for proper acceleration up to traffic speed and most cornering situations on the road, so use that, too.

Why make a habit of skipping gears? It's less fuel efficient, less fun, and avoiding gears because you're not smooth with them yet sounds like you need a driver mod, not a change to your shifting patterns.

YUP ... 3rd and 4th are the most fun too...
 
I might skip gears merging onto a highway, blasting down the onramp in 3rd, going to 4th, then backing off and going right to 6th.

+1

thats the only time i'll skip gears too. i'll boost up through 3rd or 4th, at which point i'm at my cruising speed (and far too often well above it (lol2) oops) and since im just gonna be cruising from that point on, there's no point in running through 5th, so i just drop it right to 6th. seems to me like a more logical time to skip, as opposed to missing 2nd.
 
my advice-go to a parking lot and practice. i dont know why so many people have jerky shifts, this car is easy to drive. go practice, its all about seat time.
 
Something to think about. I have driven sticks for 30 years and have found the speed 3 to be the trickiest so far. The clutch is pretty much an on/off clutch. The Probe GT I had before was very smooth but the clutch would slip if you tried to carry too many RPM's into the next gear.

My Speed 3 smoothed out alot when I added the Forge BPV. The boost does not drop off and then kick back on like the stock bpv did, causing alot of head jerking. It was a dramatic difference.
 
I'd also say you take your time and practice those shifts until they're smooth as butta. You'll learn about and "bond" with your car, besides it's an excuse to spend time in this very entertaining car :)

Of course, if currently around town you feel uncomfortable/nervous by going into second, or you currently need to pull off a smooth shift (sick passenger/some one who suffers from inner ear problems, etc) by all means do what you feel is necessary. Just try and not make a habit of it, because it's harder to unlearn a bad habit than to learn a new one properly.
 
problem is, this car doesnt deserve to be treated like that. IMO there's no point in buying a performance car if you're gonna drive around with a stick up your ass trying to get 30 mpg. 25 mpg is still pretty good, and that's with me taking it up to 4-5k to throw my head back and giving the tire sidewalls some action through tight corners. to me the car just begs to be driven with vigor because it responds so fluidly to everything i do to it. i'll take the head snapping boost and shoulder throwing turns over trying to get an extra 5 mpg and driving like an old lady. go get a smart car for that.

/end novel. i apologize for the long windedness (stfu)

Is that like, if you have big muscles or are a world class athlete, that you should always be performing at that level? I'm not picking on you, but there's nothing wrong with "walk softly and carry a big stick". That way, you can use it when you need it.
 
Is that like, if you have big muscles or are a world class athlete, that you should always be performing at that level? I'm not picking on you, but there's nothing wrong with "walk softly and carry a big stick". That way, you can use it when you need it.

why would you go through all the hard work to train to bench 400lb or run a 4:30 mile if you were never actually going to use what you're training for? for humans, its slightly different because a lot of people will work out for health / appearance benefits. i still like the analogy, though, because if your purpose when buying the car wasnt to go out and get on it at least semi-regularly, why wouldnt you save like $5000 and get a regular 3 hatchback? offers you most of the amenities, less the steroids for the drivetrain and suspension.

as for using it only when you need it, explain to me when you would "need" this car. nobody needs it. you might need a car, and you might even need a hatchback for the space, but as far as NEEDING the speed, im pretty convinced thats on a want-only basis.

idk about the rest of you, but thats the way i would see it. in no way when deciding to purchase the speed3 was necessesity ever part of my reasoning. it was purely whether i could afford / justify spending the extra money to get the icing on the cake (the extremely delicious icing)
 
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