SCBS Saved my @ss!!

2.0_Mazda

Member
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2019 Mazda 3
SCBS is deactiveted if the brake pedal is already being pressed according to some docs I read. I can't see how it can apply more force! What if you are not within the scbs criteria, ie turning at the same time, then your emergency stop will never give you max stopping performance???

I'm wondering if the two systems (SCBC and Brake Assist) may be linked, and that when the car senses an imminent crash, it further helps the driver to stop.
 
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2014 CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech
Yes, they are linked.

That's exactly what saved me from a wreck.

I had the exact same thing happen to me a week ago.

Last Sunday we had a blizzard here in the Chicago area, but I went out to the store to pick up a few things anyway. I was driving slowly out of the parking lot toward a T-intersection with the street. I started to brake early out of caution, and sure enough there must have been ice under the snow because the car immediately started to slide. There happened to be a few cars on the road and I certainly didn't want to slide into them. I made a very quick assessment of my options (which were none) and my reaction was to mash the brake pedal. After a (figurative) second of standing on the brake, it felt like the pressure gave way and the pedal dropped a bit. I thought for sure that I was going to slide out into that intersection but after the pedal dropped the car stopped quickly.

I know what ABS feels like, but did not feel the pulsating pedal feedback that I would have expected if ABS had kicked in before the assist. I can't recall specifically but it may have kicked in for a moment after the pedal dropped.

I was not really paying attention to the dash at any point so I don't know if any lights came on. All of this happened very quickly and I was preoccupied with what was happening.

Anyway, I had read this thread a while back so I wanted to post and let you know that I had essentially the same experience.
 

designtheland

Member
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Mazda CX-5 Touring Silver
My CX-5 saved my hide, LAST NIGHT. I have the touring model; therefore, I don't have SCBS, but a deer darted in front of me and a nailed the brakes. I felt sure I was going to hit the deer. I depressed with all my might and to my surprise the vehicle stayed straight and stable as the anti-lock brakes kicked in and started pumping the brakes. (BTW. I think all the models have a"brake assist" which applies additional pressure in emergency situations. Way to go MAZDA!
 

Dr_Watson

Member
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2106 CX5 2.2D AWD MT 175PS, Tech pack, Sunroof, full LED
ABS kicks in, but somehow some additional force slows you quicker, Mazda are on to something here!
 

piotrek91

Member
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2013 CX-5 6MT
ABS kicks in, but somehow some additional force slows you quicker, Mazda are on to something here!

Just a theory..

Maybe what everyone describes as "ABS kicking in" is actually the Electronic Brake Distribution?

Rear wheels lock up, so ABS starts working on the back wheels, but the front wheels are still not at 100% braking.
More pedal pressure or SCBS would get the front wheels to full ABS, giving the additional braking force they are talking about.
 

Dr_Watson

Member
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2106 CX5 2.2D AWD MT 175PS, Tech pack, Sunroof, full LED
Just a theory..

Maybe what everyone describes as "ABS kicking in" is actually the Electronic Brake Distribution?

Rear wheels lock up, so ABS starts working on the back wheels, but the front wheels are still not at 100% braking.
More pedal pressure or SCBS would get the front wheels to full ABS, giving the additional braking force they are talking about.

Highly unlikely.
 

MikeM.

Member
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2013 Mazda CX-5 Touring AWD 2.0L
I know what ABS feels like, but did not feel the pulsating pedal feedback that I would have expected if ABS had kicked in before the assist.

There are different ways to implement ABS and they all have slightly different operation and they all feel a little different. The Mazda CX-5 implementation is very refined and sophisticated compared to what you would find on a 2000 Cadillac for example. ABS and other electronic traction and stability control systems can do things that even the most skilled drivers cannot (for example, apply different braking forces individually, to each wheel).


It is not humanly possible to win at the highest level of Formula 1 motorcycle racing (MotoGP) without these electronic braking and traction aids. And that is despite the fact that even traditional motorcycle braking systems allow the rider complete independent control of each wheel. The reason is that automatic systems can respond 20-30 times faster than the best athlete can.
 
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2014 CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech
There are different ways to implement ABS and they all have slightly different operation and they all feel a little different. The Mazda CX-5 implementation is very refined and sophisticated compared to what you would find on a 2000 Cadillac for example. ABS and other electronic traction and stability control systems can do things that even the most skilled drivers cannot (for example, apply different braking forces individually, to each wheel).


It is not humanly possible to win at the highest level of Formula 1 motorcycle racing (MotoGP) without these electronic braking and traction aids. And that is despite the fact that even traditional motorcycle braking systems allow the rider complete independent control of each wheel. The reason is that automatic systems can respond 20-30 times faster than the best athlete can.

Do you know the details of the different ways that ABS is implemented? What is more refined and sophisticated in Mazda's implementation versus any other modern car?
 

MikeM.

Member
:
2013 Mazda CX-5 Touring AWD 2.0L
Do you know the details of the different ways that ABS is implemented? What is more refined and sophisticated in Mazda's implementation versus any other modern car?

Mazda uses a four sensor, four channel controller to control each wheel individually. Early ABS systems often combined both back wheels on the same channel. And Mazda's system is integrated into their dynamic stability system (as is any car with ABS and dynamic stability). It's also integrated into their Electronic Brake Force Distribution system which measures the load on each wheel and distributes braking force to suit. This dramatically reduces the situations in which the ABS needs to take over in the first place.


But what I was really referring to was the valving (and software implementation) of Mazda's ABS is more refined compared to many earlier cars I've driven. It is less obtrusive, it is harder to get to the point where it is necessary for it to kick in and, when it does, it does it in a more refined manner. I believe it simply reacts faster and less abruptly. Also, depending upon the design of the hydraulic valves, pumps and lines (and also the specific algorithms used in the brake controller's computer), the brake pedal will have different feedback upon activation of ABS. Earlier systems were very crude in this regard.
 
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2014 CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech
Mazda uses a four sensor, four channel controller to control each wheel individually. Early ABS systems often combined both back wheels on the same channel. And Mazda's system is integrated into their dynamic stability system (as is any car with ABS and dynamic stability). It's also integrated into their Electronic Brake Force Distribution system which measures the load on each wheel and distributes braking force to suit. This dramatically reduces the situations in which the ABS needs to take over in the first place.


But what I was really referring to was the valving (and software implementation) of Mazda's ABS is more refined compared to many earlier cars I've driven. It is less obtrusive, it is harder to get to the point where it is necessary for it to kick in and, when it does, it does it in a more refined manner. I believe it simply reacts faster and less abruptly. Also, depending upon the design of the hydraulic valves, pumps and lines (and also the specific algorithms used in the brake controller's computer), the brake pedal will have different feedback upon activation of ABS. Earlier systems were very crude in this regard.

My understanding is that most all modern electronic traction, stability, and braking systems are basically added on top of the ABS system - additional sensors and computers that rely on the brakes in order to function. They have to be integrated in order for all of them to work correctly.

This brochure claims that the ABS in the CX-5 is capable of pumping the brakes hundreds of times per second. Also mentions the Brake Assist feature. page 14.
http://mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/musa2/pdf/brochures/2015/2015_Mazda_CX5_Brochure.pdf

Thought the snippet below was interesting as well. I would assume that the Brake Assist system causes the brake pedal to drop in the CX-5, anyway, this is apparently a well known phenomenon.

"Will I notice anything when the ABS is working?
In many vehicles, drivers may experience a rapid pulsation of the brake pedal--almost as if the brakes are pushing back at you. Sometimes the pedal could suddenly drop. Also, the valves in the ABS controller may make a noise that sounds like grinding or buzzing. In some cars you may feel a slight vibration--this means the ABS is working. It is important NOT to take your foot off the brake pedal when you hear noise or feel pulsations, but instead continue to apply firm pressure."

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/equipment/absbrakes.html
 
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was 175ps Mazda CX-5 Auto AWD Sport Nav, now 190ps DSG Tiguan 4M
IMO the cx-5 lags behind some cars in that it has no trailer stability system, I don't find the ABS action any different to my previous 4 cars, all four channel ABS systems.

Where the CX-5 was up with the leaders was with the smart city braking, although mine has yet to show it works, I should test it really.
But I've noticed now that the competition have all now got a smart city braking system of some sort, so they have caught up.
 

Berner

Member
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2016 CX-5 GT AWD Tech & i-Active
But I've noticed now that the competition have all now got a smart city braking system of some sort, so they have caught up.

I find this a curious statement, and I wonder if there are some major differences between the UK and the US. At least in the US, the following CX-5 competitors have no assisted braking at all (either as standard or with optional equipment):

2015 Nissan Rogue
2015 Toyota RAV-4
2015 Volkswagen Tiguan
2015 Ford Escape
2015 Hyundai Tucson
2015 Jeep Patriot
2015 Kia Sportage
2015 Acura RDX
2015 BMW X1
 

MikeM.

Member
:
2013 Mazda CX-5 Touring AWD 2.0L
I don't find the ABS action any different to my previous 4 cars, all four channel ABS systems.

I don't know what your previous 4 cars are, but I've never driven a car that handles a sheet of ice so well. My 2010 F-150 feels particularly crude in it's ABS response. In 1998 Volvo had the best ABS and Stability Control in the industry (with the release of the S80) and it worked very well on slippery surfaces like ice. Now, the 2013 CX-5 works noticeably better on ice, it responds faster and has a higher frequency of operation that maximizes available traction, even when there is almost none. And snow/ice is the primary way I judge the effectiveness of an ABS system. But the Mazda is also better in deep, loose gravel. I don't know exactly why it's better but it appears to be able to somehow know it's in a loose condition and perhaps it slows down the pumping action which allows a mound to build up in front of each tire. I just know it feels different and stops better in similar circumstances. I find it difficult to fathom that anyone could judge the ABS systems of 5 different cars (of presumably different makes and ages) to all work in an indistinguishable fashion. Unless maybe you rarely activate the ABS on slippery, icy corners.
 
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was 175ps Mazda CX-5 Auto AWD Sport Nav, now 190ps DSG Tiguan 4M
I find this a curious statement, and I wonder if there are some major differences between the UK and the US. At least in the US, the following CX-5 competitors have no assisted braking at all (either as standard or with optional equipment):

2015 Nissan Rogue
2015 Toyota RAV-4
2015 Volkswagen Tiguan
2015 Ford Escape
2015 Hyundai Tucson
2015 Jeep Patriot
2015 Kia Sportage
2015 Acura RDX
2015 BMW X1

Why don't you google uk sites and check out for yourself.

Cars I take note of are the Kuga, Tiguan, CRV, BMW X3, Volvo XC-60, Nissan Xtrail, and cashcow.
Both the Tig and Kuga, X3 Xc-60 also have more power than the CX-5 in diesel form.

We don't get offered many petrol options as 80% of cars sold in the UK are diesel, and they still sell more manual cars.
We do appear to get more standard equipment, but you get your cars much cheaper.

I paid 26500 in 2013 for my car.

VW have had the system some time now.
http://www.euroncap.com/rewards/volkswagen_city_emergency_brake.aspx
 
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was 175ps Mazda CX-5 Auto AWD Sport Nav, now 190ps DSG Tiguan 4M
I don't know what your previous 4 cars are, but I've never driven a car that handles a sheet of ice so well. My 2010 F-150 feels particularly crude in it's ABS response. In 1998 Volvo had the best ABS and Stability Control in the industry (with the release of the S80) and it worked very well on slippery surfaces like ice. Now, the 2013 CX-5 works noticeably better on ice, it responds faster and has a higher frequency of operation that maximizes available traction, even when there is almost none. And snow/ice is the primary way I judge the effectiveness of an ABS system. But the Mazda is also better in deep, loose gravel. I don't know exactly why it's better but it appears to be able to somehow know it's in a loose condition and perhaps it slows down the pumping action which allows a mound to build up in front of each tire. I just know it feels different and stops better in similar circumstances. I find it difficult to fathom that anyone could judge the ABS systems of 5 different cars (of presumably different makes and ages) to all work in an indistinguishable fashion. Unless maybe you rarely activate the ABS on slippery, icy corners.

The stopping ability was better on my last car a 2009 xtrail, this car also had ventilated disc front and rear.

By far the best was the ABS system on my 2000 Audi.

The CX-5 ABS works but is still ineffective on sheet ice as are all systems on normal road tyres.
Mazda brakes don't appear to have the best systems for stopping under normal circumstances, in the recent Autoexpress test with the Mazda 6, it stopping distance was the least effective of the three, VW Passat, and Ford Mondeo.
 
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was 175ps Mazda CX-5 Auto AWD Sport Nav, now 190ps DSG Tiguan 4M
I don't know what your previous 4 cars are, but I've never driven a car that handles a sheet of ice so well. My 2010 F-150 feels particularly crude in it's ABS response. In 1998 Volvo had the best ABS and Stability Control in the industry (with the release of the S80) and it worked very well on slippery surfaces like ice. Now, the 2013 CX-5 works noticeably better on ice, it responds faster and has a higher frequency of operation that maximizes available traction, even when there is almost none. And snow/ice is the primary way I judge the effectiveness of an ABS system. But the Mazda is also better in deep, loose gravel. I don't know exactly why it's better but it appears to be able to somehow know it's in a loose condition and perhaps it slows down the pumping action which allows a mound to build up in front of each tire. I just know it feels different and stops better in similar circumstances. I find it difficult to fathom that anyone could judge the ABS systems of 5 different cars (of presumably different makes and ages) to all work in an indistinguishable fashion. Unless maybe you rarely activate the ABS on slippery, icy corners.

The stopping ability was better on my last car a 2009 xtrail, this car also had ventilated disc front and rear.

By far the best was the ABS system on my 2000 Audi.

The CX-5 ABS works but is still ineffective on sheet ice as are all systems on normal road tyres.
Mazda brakes don't appear to have the best systems for stopping under normal circumstances, in the recent Autoexpress test with the Mazda 6, it stopping distance was the least effective of the three, VW Passat, and Ford Mondeo.
 

Berner

Member
:
2016 CX-5 GT AWD Tech & i-Active
Why don't you google uk sites and check out for yourself.
Sounds like a lot of work. In the U.S., the IIHS compiles all this information into one website (one page, actually).

In any event, I think its important to point out that in the U.S. market, the CX-5 is substantially ahead of its competition in next-generation safety features, including assisted braking. The competition has most certainly not "caught up" here, to use your words.

Thank you, though, for the additional information.
 
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was 175ps Mazda CX-5 Auto AWD Sport Nav, now 190ps DSG Tiguan 4M
I don't know what your previous 4 cars are, but I've never driven a car that handles a sheet of ice so well. My 2010 F-150 feels particularly crude in it's ABS response. In 1998 Volvo had the best ABS and Stability Control in the industry (with the release of the S80) and it worked very well on slippery surfaces like ice. Now, the 2013 CX-5 works noticeably better on ice, it responds faster and has a higher frequency of operation that maximizes available traction, even when there is almost none. And snow/ice is the primary way I judge the effectiveness of an ABS system. But the Mazda is also better in deep, loose gravel. I don't know exactly why it's better but it appears to be able to somehow know it's in a loose condition and perhaps it slows down the pumping action which allows a mound to build up in front of each tire. I just know it feels different and stops better in similar circumstances. I find it difficult to fathom that anyone could judge the ABS systems of 5 different cars (of presumably different makes and ages) to all work in an indistinguishable fashion. Unless maybe you rarely activate the ABS on slippery, icy corners.

Sorry about the duplicate posts, I'm having internet connection problems.

The stopping ability was better on my last car a 2009 xtrail, this car also had ventilated disc front and rear.

By far the best was the ABS system on my 2000 Audi.

The CX-5 ABS works but is still ineffective on sheet ice as are all systems on normal road tyres.
Mazda brakes don't appear to have the best systems for stopping under normal circumstances, in the recent Autoexpress test with the Mazda 6, it stopping distance was the least effective of the three, VW Passat, and Ford Mondeo.
 
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None Yet
I find this a curious statement, and I wonder if there are some major differences between the UK and the US. At least in the US, the following CX-5 competitors have no assisted braking at all (either as standard or with optional equipment):

2015 Nissan Rogue
2015 Toyota RAV-4
2015 Volkswagen Tiguan
2015 Ford Escape
2015 Hyundai Tucson
2015 Jeep Patriot
2015 Kia Sportage
2015 Acura RDX
2015 BMW X1

I do hear that electronic safety systems have much less uptake in the US.

The only competitors I'm aware of that do have such systems (in the US) are the Subaru Forester and the Honda CR-V.