SBS/SCBS Warning Light on 2017 CX5 GS?

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2017 Mazda CX-5 GS
I’ve had this car for about a year now. It's a 2017 Grand Select, and so it lacks some of the safety features of the Grand Touring that year. My understanding is that it doesn’t have smart braking at all. But just lately, the yellow SBS/SCBS warning light will come on Occasionally, always first thing in the morning after driving a short distance. I’m sure that it was caused by frost on the upper windshield a couple of times, and the other day it came on when driving into a very low angle morning sun. it always goes off by itself after a short time, and I’ve basically been ignoring it it since I don’t think this car even has those features. I was actually quite pleased to learn that they had made a model without all the nanny stuff, like smart braking and lane assist. I must be the only one, because I think they only did it for one model year.

My questions are:

Am I right that the GS doesn't even have any radar braking assistance?

Is there any front radar under or around the front emblem. I read about cleaning it, but mine is just the bare emblem without a plastic cover.

is there any other reason this light would illuminate? I don’t even know why they would have that warning on this car.

thanks for any and all information.
 
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2017 Mazda CX-5 GS
Why would there be a camera behind the rear view mirror. I don’t think it has a forward facing camera does it?
 
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2017 Mazda 6 Sport
Is there a black housing behind your rear view mirror that's attached to the windshield? If so, you have SBS/SCBS. You can see the camera and laser sensors from the front.
 
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2017 Mazda CX-5 GS
Is there a black housing behind your rear view mirror that's attached to the windshield? If so, you have SBS/SCBS. You can see the camera and laser sensors from the front.
The GS was an experiment to see if there was a market for a car that had the other premium features of the GT, but not all the nanny features. It does have blind spot assistance, and cross traffic warning, etc., but does not have things like “Smart Braking,” and lane departure. It was perfect for me, since I live in a rural area and prefer to drive my own car instead of having the computer do it. Obviously there wasn’t enough market to continue with it. The following is from Cars Direct. If you Google CX 5 Grand select, you will find information about what is does, and does not have. I just can’t figure out why I'm getting a warning light about a feature the car doesn’t have.

”Based on recent order guides, the CX-5 Grand Select will start at $29,835 including destination, exactly $500 less than the $30,335 Grand Touring. Like the other trims, all-wheel drive can be added for an additional cost of $1,300. The only difference will be in terms of safety tech.

Unlike the Grand Touring, it won't include a more complete range of driver assistance features, like forward collision warning with emergency braking (Smart Brake Support), adaptive cruise control, automatic high beams and lane departure warning with lane-keeping assist.”
 
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2017 Mazda CX-5 GS
Is there a black housing behind your rear view mirror that's attached to the windshield? If so, you have SBS/SCBS. You can see the camera and laser sensors from the front.
To answer your direct question, I think the housing is there, I’m not in the car right now, but I don’t think this car has the forward radar or forward camera, because it doesn’t have adaptive cruise, lane assist, SBS/SCBS, etc.
 

HardRightEdg

US 2020 CX-5 Touring AWD Soul Red
To answer your direct question, I think the housing is there, I’m not in the car right now, but I don’t think this car has the forward radar or forward camera, because it doesn’t have adaptive cruise, lane assist, SBS/SCBS, etc.
This is quite a puzzler.

According to my 2020 manual, the SCBS operates through the Forward Sensing Camera only whereas the SBS utilizes both that camera and the logo radar in conjunction. Absence of the camera functions would indicate that neither SCBS nor SBS can operate.

The fact the camera housing is present doesn't mean there is a camera inside. It may be just cheaper to have one housing/mirror assembly but in your case the guts are omitted. You can look through the opening in the windshield (that might require a flashlight depending on lighting) to see if the camera is there. However, the camera may be present as part of the standard assembly but the microprocessor(s), wiring, whatnot are omitted, so the camera's presence would not tell you anything definitive.

In my 2020, under Settings-->Safety on the touch screen, the SBS/SCBS can be turned off. If you have that menu option, you might try turning the system off if it is set to on or vice versa, cover the camera opening if you in fact have a camera, and see what happens.

It would appear that Mazda did not do a complete job in the de-contenting. I suppose it is possible that the camera is present and has enough function to know it is obscured and sends a signal to the dash where the de-contenting is in all the rest that goes into operating the brakes.

It is also conceivable that your vehicle has all the hardware, microchips and processors, wiring, whatnot of the fully function version, but they did an incomplete job of deactivating the software. As a low production marketing experiment Mazda may have decided to eat the $500 rather than modify assembly for a low volume version. Hard to say.

These are conjectures, things to check out, that might provide some answer or a lead. Barring that, a dealer inquiry would be in order. A dealer may not be that familiar with such a low volume version, so a call to Mazda USA or Canada or wherever might be required.
 
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Above link is for 2017 CX-5 spec published by cars.com
To see what safety features you have look under safety section.
I see you have Collision Mitigation-Front as standard feature, Smart Brake Support and Rear Cross Traffic Alert is optional item as a bundle.

AFAIK, SBS radar is located behind front emblem, front camera is right below it (on my 2019 Sig).
 
Camera under the front emblem is used for 360* view in some models.

Following is from Mazda Web Owner's manual;

Your vehicle is equipped with a Forward Sensing Camera (FSC). The Forward Sensing Camera (FSC) is positioned near the rearview mirror and used by the following systems.

  • High Beam Control System (HBC)
  • Adaptive LED Headlights (ALH)
  • Driver Attention Alert (DAA)
  • Lane-keep Assist System (LAS) & Lane Departure Warning System (LDWS)
  • Traffic Sign Recognition System (TSR)
  • Advanced Smart City Brake Support (Advanced SCBS)
  • Smart City Brake Support [Forward] (SCBS F)
  • Mazda Radar Cruise Control with Stop & Go function (MRCC with Stop & Go function
  • Smart Brake Support (SBS)
  • 05282100-kfusa01-001.png

    The Forward Sensing Camera (FSC) determines the conditions ahead of the vehicle while travelling at night and detects traffic lanes. The distance in which the Forward Sensing Camera (FSC) can detect objects varies depending on the surrounding conditions.

Your vehicle is equipped with a radar sensor (front).

The following systems also use the radar sensor (front).

  • Mazda Radar Cruise Control (MRCC)
  • Mazda Radar Cruise Control with Stop & Go function (MRCC with Stop & Go function)
  • Distance Recognition Support System (DRSS)
  • Smart Brake Support (SBS)
The radar sensor (front) functions by detecting the radio waves reflected off a vehicle ahead or an obstruction sent from the radar sensor.

The radar sensor (front) is mounted behind the front emblem.

05282200-kfusa01-001.png

If “Front radar blocked” is displayed in the multi-information display of the instrument cluster, clean the area around the radar sensor (front).
 
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HardRightEdg

US 2020 CX-5 Touring AWD Soul Red
I’ve had this car for about a year now. It's a 2017 Grand Select, and so it lacks some of the safety features of the Grand Touring that year. My understanding is that it doesn’t have smart braking at all. But just lately, the yellow SBS/SCBS warning light will come on Occasionally, always first thing in the morning after driving a short distance.
Upon further review, see the following link to a sample Monroney sticker for a 2017 Grand Select:


SBS is included, contrary to your understanding. As previously noted, SBS uses both the Front Facing Camera and front radar. So, maybe your issue is just the stuff on the windshield obscuring the camera and/or stuff on the front logo obscuring the radar correctly signaling the SBS is not operable.

I would think there should be a touch screen menu item such as the one previously described for the 2020 to allow you to turn SBS off if that is your preference. Of course if you've owned the car for a year and have not had it automatically brake it wouldn't be intrusive for you.

From a quick scan of the label it does look like the other stuff you believed to be de-contented, including SCBS, are in fact not listed on the sticker. Check for yourself to see what's in and what's out.
 
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2017 Mazda CX-5 GS
This is interesting. I’ve read many reviews about the Grand Select, and every one of them said that the car does not have these features. Of everything listed there, the only one I know it has is adaptive headlights. It also has cross traffic alert and blind spot of course.

The car has never braked itself, it definitely doesn’t have adaptive cruise, lane assist, automatic dimming, or any of that.

There is indeed a camera in there. I’ll check the settings to see if SBS is an option. I notice that the list posted above says that SBS and cross traffic alert is optional. It has cross traffic, so maybe SBS also. Thing that make you go hmmm.
 
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2017 Mazda CX-5 GS
Also, there is no radar, and no cover over the emblem. I think the radar equipped cars have a protective cover over the front emblem.
 
Mine's a Touring non-PP and I have SBS, but it's only an alert, doesn't brake for you. It's only alerted me once as a false alarm. The other day my light went on too so I had to look it up to find out what that light was. It was only on temporarily. Maybe there was something obstructing the top of the windshield
 
Also, there is no radar, and no cover over the emblem. I think the radar equipped cars have a protective cover over the front emblem.

On 2019 Signature, there is no cover over the font emblem. The radar is supposed be behind the emblem.
You're right, cross traffic alert and SBS is bundled together. I'm not sure how SBS acts, only drove my CX-5 for 3 weeks and 470 miles.
 
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2017 Mazda CX-5 GS
One feature I wish this car did have is a front proximity alert. We do a lot of parallel parking, and that actually pretty handy. My old BMW X5 would begin a slow beeping at about 3 feet, and increase in speed as you got closer.

I like the cross traffic alert and the blind spot monitor.

I’ve probably just never come up on a vehicle in front of me at a speed that worried the SBS. Having been a truck driver for some years, and a motorcycle rider, I'm pretty aware of not following too close.
 

HardRightEdg

US 2020 CX-5 Touring AWD Soul Red
Mine's a Touring non-PP and I have SBS, but it's only an alert, doesn't brake for you. It's only alerted me once as a false alarm.
SBS first issues the audible alert only. If you then fail to apply the brakes then SBS will do it for you. If you do apply the brakes after the alert then the system will assist with firmer braking if it determines a collision is imminent. You just didn't get to the point of imminent.

From the 2020 manual:

"The SBS system alerts the driver of a possible collision using a display and warning sound if the radar sensor (front) and the Forward Sensing Camera (FSC) determine that there is the possibility of a collision with a vehicle ahead while the vehicle is being driven at about 15 km/h or faster (10 mph or faster). Furthermore, if the radar sensor (front) and the Forward Sensing Camera (FSC) determines that a collision is unavoidable, the automatic brake control is performed to reduce damage in the event of a collision. In addition, when the driver depresses the brake pedal, the brakes are applied firmly and quickly to assist. (Brake Assist (SBS brake assist)).

SCBS operates in a similar fashion.
 
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yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
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Plano, Texas, USA
One feature I wish this car did have is a front proximity alert. We do a lot of parallel parking, and that actually pretty handy. My old BMW X5 would begin a slow beeping at about 3 feet, and increase in speed as you got closer.
The feature you mentioned is “Front Parking Sensors” and they’re the standard equipment on CX-5 Signature.
 

HardRightEdg

US 2020 CX-5 Touring AWD Soul Red
One feature I wish this car did have is a front proximity alert. We do a lot of parallel parking, and that actually pretty handy. My old BMW X5 would begin a slow beeping at about 3 feet, and increase in speed as you got closer.

I like the cross traffic alert and the blind spot monitor.

I’ve probably just never come up on a vehicle in front of me at a speed that worried the SBS. Having been a truck driver for some years, and a motorcycle rider, I'm pretty aware of not following too close.
Agree on the cross traffic alert and blind spot monitor being of the most utility. Upper trim CX-5's have the front parking assist in conjunction with a 360 degree view on the touch screen. You'll see the radar "buttons" on the front bumper of upper trims which are used for parking assist.

Yes, it is entirely possible that over a year of driving the SBS has simply not issued an alert. After about 15 months and 8,000 miles I had SCSB issue an alert once and SBS twice. Interestingly, the two SBS alerts were on the same day--country road doing maybe 50-55 MPH, car in front making a right hand turn. These were alerts only as the WTF reflex was to apply the brakes. None of the three alerts were a collision risk in my mind. The two SBS alerts seemed odd because the situation was typical of what I encounter on a daily basis on country roads around my house. Now, that day I had 3 passengers out on a day trip, the only time anybody has sat in the back seats. Maybe the additional weight had something to do with engaging the system earlier. As an aside, the tranny was also smooth as butter that day under the additional load.

It's not uncommon for me to see folks in front of me not brake as cars in front of them slow for a right turn or are making a left turn in front of them, or seeing oncoming vehicles not slow as I'm turning. I'm sure I'm not alone. Those folks are timing the situation within close tolerance. If those folks were driving a CX-5 I'm sure their vehicle would be squawking at the them with some regularity. If the turning vehicle suddenly slammed on the brakes before completing the turn those folks might not appreciate the possibility of a collision while appreciating the activation of an SBS-like system.

According to the 2020 manual, I see now that if you turn off SBS you get an SBS OFF alert on the dash. Further, something I did not know until testing it just now, the manual states that if you turn it off it will then turn back on the next time you start the car, like turning off traction control. So, long story short, given what you describe, it is probably not worth the trouble of turning it off if your touch screen allows it.
 
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2017 Mazda CX-5 GS
Now that I’ve read more about it, it’s not exactly what I thought it was anyway. Here’s what I discovered so far.

Yes, the car has a front facing camera, and I'm sure frost or low sun reflection has caused the SBS inactive light to come on a few times. The car, as far as I can tell, does not have front radar.

It does have SBS, and I have it set on medium in the safety settings. I’ve just never been in a situation that triggered it. It does have blind spot monitoring. It doesn’t have lane assist, adaptive cruise, or other features that require front radar. It also doesn’t do auto dim or bright on the headlights, which I believe is supposed to work through the camera. As I write that last line, I'm thinking I need to double check about auto dim. Maybe that feature is just turned off. All of that is fine with me.

So I’ve learned quite a bit about a car I've had for a whole year, put nearly 14,000 miles on, and thought I understood pretty well.

Thanks for all the feedback.
 

HardRightEdg

US 2020 CX-5 Touring AWD Soul Red
Now that I’ve read more about it, it’s not exactly what I thought it was anyway. Here’s what I discovered so far.

Yes, the car has a front facing camera, and I'm sure frost or low sun reflection has caused the SBS inactive light to come on a few times. The car, as far as I can tell, does not have front radar.

It does have SBS, and I have it set on medium in the safety settings. I’ve just never been in a situation that triggered it. It does have blind spot monitoring. It doesn’t have lane assist, adaptive cruise, or other features that require front radar. It also doesn’t do auto dim or bright on the headlights, which I believe is supposed to work through the camera. As I write that last line, I'm thinking I need to double check about auto dim. Maybe that feature is just turned off. All of that is fine with me.

So I’ve learned quite a bit about a car I've had for a whole year, put nearly 14,000 miles on, and thought I understood pretty well.

Thanks for all the feedback.
As with my 2020, the 2017 uses the "radar sensor (front)" to operate the SBS according to that year's owners manual. It's safe to say you have that radar and the diagram in the 2017 manual shows it positioned behind the logo:


Regardless, knowing you have it and how it works is the main thing.

As for auto bright/dim of the headlights, I see in the sample sticker I linked in post #10 above that your model has "Fully Automatic Projector Beam Led Low/High beam...." That sounds like it. On my 2020 sticker they call it simply "High Beam Control".

To test for it, see if your light stalk has an "Auto" setting." Start the car in the dark (no garage door opener light on please), stay in park and turn the stalk to "Auto". The headlights will come on. Flip the stalk forward to the brights-on position. If the brights do not come, and you get a dash indicator, you've got that function. It only operates above a certain speed which is why you should test in park.

I would recommend using this function. I find it works quite well, very few false positive or negatives in engaging or disengaging the brights. The only downside I've encountered is when an oncoming car goes down into a dip the brights flip on and when he comes out of the dip they flip off. You kind of look like an idiot to that oncoming driver when that happens but when you get down to it, so what. It's very quick and you're not blinding him.

A final word on cameras and radar. While those bits of hardware may be present and operable with one function there is no guarantee the other functions that use them in other models are operable in another model. The cameras and radar are dumb. It's the microprocessors that interprets the camera images and radar signals to activate the mechanical controls. It's the chips and controllers for a particular function like SCBS or Lane Keeping Assist that may have been de-contented for the $500 savings in your model.

None of this safety stuff is in any way "autonomous" driving and if you set the various functions to low or medium sensitivity they are minimally intrusive for an attentive and at least moderately defensive driver. Elon Musk (and GM with their ads showing smiling people with hands off the wheel) should be taken out back to the woodshed for selling snake oil, my mixed metaphors notwithstanding.
 
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