Need help finding bigger turbo ms6

[Turbo Staavin]

i have a ms6
--Turbonetics BOV
--injen cold air intake
--methanol kit
--stage 3 clutch
--front mount intercooler

Looking for a turbo around 450hp dont know which one to get. just wanted to know if i would have to change anything in my car to withstand that much power....(and im thinking about putting a chip after)

 

[coyfish]

Nobody in the speed 6 has broken 400 whp if im not mistaken. Whoosh had a 370 whp mazdaspeed 6 using a gt35r. SU mark is working hard to break 400. Hes at 386 with a GT40R. Built engine and TONS of mods.

I would get an exhaust / tune at MINMUM before you even think if going big turbo. Frankly without a built engine I wouldn't do anything bigger than a reworked K04 (stock turbo) or a small gt2871r.

 

[solidtrance]

You have a long way to go. At a min you will need; DP, TIP, Full Exhaust, Tune (AP would be easiest), Exhaust Headers, Fully built motor, and a bigger turbo. All this may get you to the high 300's. Beyond this point you will be on your own. I think you will find tha tall this power exposes some major flaws in the powertrain that may or may not be terminal.

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong. You never said you expected the power to last...... Just get a big turbo and a boost controler. Sec the boost controler to max and see what it will do. You might get to 450ish before the motor lets the magic smoke out.

 

[SamNavy]

A "chip"... seriously?

Nothing about the stock motor except maybe the block is a good candidate for that kind of power. A fully built unit... rods/pistons/headwork/intake manifold/custom tubular exhaust mani/GT35r@25psi/3"+exhaust/a stellar tune... and you're talking business... maybe.

I don't think anybody has done homework on what the limits of the stock crank might be, but that would be worth homework.

Keeping the stock redline is going to hurt too... since horsepower is a formula derived from torque, if you can keep the boost up, it's easier to make peak numbers at higher RPM's... which brings the valvetrain into question.

Also, nobody has taken the rest of the drivetrain that high... and I can guarantee you with all the issues we have breaking stuff on stock power, nothing will last when you more than double it... even all the upgrades we've come up with in the community will be in unknown territory... I'm talking transmission grenades.

Basically, you need to start reading the various MS6 forums a lot... learn who the high-power guys are, and search all the threads they've done. Then visit the various MS6 vendors and see what they sell, and if those products are advertised to get you to your goals. Then you need to set yourself a realistic budget you will stick to. Then you need to assess your skills and whether you're going to be able to do all the work (including possible custom fabrication) yourself or pay someone to do it and factor that into your budget. Then you need to find somebody to do the work. Then you need to find a tuner who is willing to take this vehicle into completely unknown territory and tune it. Over time, things will break... big things will break as you find out what 450whp does to this car... does vehicle downtime bother you and can you afford to fix things. Serioulsy... you have weeks if not months of homework if you SERIOUSLY want to try for 450whp.

Or... you can sell it and buy a used STi and make 450whp for about $3k and not worry about things breaking.

 

[Blendercloud]

There are some valid posts on what you have to do to the engine, but I haven't seen where anyone has mentioned what you would have to do to the drivetrain. Essentially, you're looking at custom one-off: axles, mounting for the differentials, and probably highly reinforced pumpkins for the front and rear differentials. That doesn't even touch what might need to be done to the transmission or the transfer case.

All in all, unless you plan to spend an exorbitant amount of money (more than the car is worth), you're not going to achieve that value. You're in the wrong car if those are your plans. For the money, you could buy a C5 Z06 and be miles ahead.

 

[coyfish]

A "chip"... seriously?

Nothing about the stock motor except maybe the block is a good candidate for that kind of power. A fully built unit... rods/pistons/headwork/intake manifold/custom tubular exhaust mani/GT35r@25psi/3"+exhaust/a stellar tune... and you're talking business... maybe.

I don't think anybody has done homework on what the limits of the stock crank might be, but that would be worth homework.

Keeping the stock redline is going to hurt too... since horsepower is a formula derived from torque, if you can keep the boost up, it's easier to make peak numbers at higher RPM's... which brings the valvetrain into question.

Also, nobody has taken the rest of the drivetrain that high... and I can guarantee you with all the issues we have breaking stuff on stock power, nothing will last when you more than double it... even all the upgrades we've come up with in the community will be in unknown territory... I'm talking transmission grenades.

Basically, you need to start reading the various MS6 forums a lot... learn who the high-power guys are, and search all the threads they've done. Then visit the various MS6 vendors and see what they sell, and if those products are advertised to get you to your goals. Then you need to set yourself a realistic budget you will stick to. Then you need to assess your skills and whether you're going to be able to do all the work (including possible custom fabrication) yourself or pay someone to do it and factor that into your budget. Then you need to find somebody to do the work. Then you need to find a tuner who is willing to take this vehicle into completely unknown territory and tune it. Over time, things will break... big things will break as you find out what 450whp does to this car... does vehicle downtime bother you and can you afford to fix things. Serioulsy... you have weeks if not months of homework if you SERIOUSLY want to try for 450whp.

Or... you can sell it and buy a used STi and make 450whp for about $3k and not worry about things breaking.

Actually the speed 6's stock drivetrain isn't bad at all. Clutch can handle quite a bit. Not 450whp but quite a bit nonetheless. All the issues of stuff breaking on stock power ??? Like what??

And 450whp in an STI for 3K . . . LOL is all I have to say about that. STI's are great cars but don't fool yourself.

 

[_MSprotegy]

Actually the speed 6's stock drivetrain isn't bad at all. Clutch can handle quite a bit. Not 450whp but quite a bit nonetheless. All the issues of stuff breaking on stock power ??? Like what??

And 450whp in an STI for 3K . . . LOL is all I have to say about that. STI's are great cars but don't fool yourself.

this man speaketh the truth. 3K will get you the most 350hp.

but like many have already said, if your goals are to make BIG hp then you chose the wrong platform to do it with.

 

[Mistersix]

from what i've gathered from forums to much torque to early is whats killing some DISI engines.

it will happen. someone will pull it off sooner or later. once its figured out how to manage torque and how to make power higher into the rpm' and get the high pressure fuel pump to keep up the numbers will come.

oh and how bout a how to- "how to make a 450whp STI for 3k!!!"

cuz if this can be done i'm tradin my ms6 NOW!!!!

 

[coyfish]

Lol its not. Ive done my research. I was thinking about selling my speed for a STI or WRX. In an STI once you pass 400 whp on stock internals you are rolling the dice. And the stock turbo is only good until about 350 . . .

My friend has a 400whp sti and its so sick. The best thing is the drivetrain and the gear ratios. That plus the lighter weight makes it so sweet / fast.

Being in that car makes you appreciate the refinements of the mazda though. His STI (05 i think) is a rough ride and like a tin can on the inside. Cheap and plain looking. Anyway rant / threadjack over .

 

[Blendercloud]

from what i've gathered from forums to much torque to early is whats killing some DISI engines.

it will happen. someone will pull it off sooner or later. once its figured out how to manage torque and how to make power higher into the rpm' and get the high pressure fuel pump to keep up the numbers will come.

This is the same problem every engine platform has in OEM form. Every design, not just cars but anything, has its limits. I've posted about this elsewhere, so I won't go into depth again here. Essentially, the connecting rods with respect to their length, material, physical design were the economic choice for Mazda to keep these cars under a target price for this market.

As you increase both boost pressure and total air volume taken in, you're creating increased pressure on the combustion side of the piston/rod. As this pressure increases, the stresses on particularly the rod increase (bent/broken rods).

When it all boils down, Mazda supplied engine internals capable of withstanding the stresses as the engine was supplied within the car. If they had gone overboard and made it what most people would call "bulletproof" the car would have been too expensive when put up against the Audis and BMWs who also share this market.

Basically, if you want to make big power with an MZR DISI, you're going to spend a big chunk of money. The same can be said about any engine platform aside from possibly the small block Chevy V8.

 

[solidtrance]

How long do you all think the clutch used to transfer power to the rear wheels will last in an MS6 with 450HP at the crank or wheels? That is the part I would be concerned with in the drivetrain. If the engine had 450 HP at the crank that would be well over 500 Ft/lbs of TQ or roughly double the stock figure likely. Forget about 450 WHP.

I agree with what has been said already. If this is what you want, you bought the wrong car. Go ruin an STI or EVO, leave the MS6 alone.

 

[coyfish]

You can't take a speed 6 that high yet so why even talk about it . . .

But SU mark was running his stock clutch past 350whp. Then it started slipping and making noises.