MS3 Stall On Cold Start

[C.T.B.B.]

I'm in here searching for any comments re a cold stall problem I'm having with my "07 MS3. Cold as in below zero F, -30 has been the coldest so far. It starts right up just fine, maybe 1-1.5 second cranking time (a spoken one thousand one, a real second, not a fingersnap) hits its' fast idle and is smooth, then about 3 seconds into idling stalls quickly, not a chug chug sputter to stall, but off as if ignition disappeared. Seemed the first couple times I noticed it it coincided with when I let out the clutch with the trans in neutral to go back into the house and I assumed it was related to trans fluid being so thick at such low temps. I swapped out for syn trans fluid, no change, just did that Thurs after work, stall was the same Fri and Sat am. I've checked for service bulletins at work, none related that I could find. Vehicle has 54K, Mazdaspeed cold air intake only engine mod. Any suggestions would be appreciated, I have access to a full range of tools and diagnostic equipment, just hasn't been enough of a problem yet for me to spend the time poking around. Symptom seems to be gone when temps are roughly 15 or above and when it doesn't stall it shows no sign of wanting to stall, either all or nothing seems so far.

Thanks for your support.

 

[Neptune8]

I'm in here searching for any comments re a cold stall problem I'm having with my "07 MS3. Cold as in below zero F, -30 has been the coldest so far. It starts right up just fine, maybe 1-1.5 second cranking time (a spoken one thousand one, a real second, not a fingersnap) hits its' fast idle and is smooth, then about 3 seconds into idling stalls quickly, not a chug chug sputter to stall, but off as if ignition disappeared. Seemed the first couple times I noticed it it coincided with when I let out the clutch with the trans in neutral to go back into the house and I assumed it was related to trans fluid being so thick at such low temps. I swapped out for syn trans fluid, no change, just did that Thurs after work, stall was the same Fri and Sat am. I've checked for service bulletins at work, none related that I could find. Vehicle has 54K, Mazdaspeed cold air intake only engine mod. Any suggestions would be appreciated, I have access to a full range of tools and diagnostic equipment, just hasn't been enough of a problem yet for me to spend the time poking around. Symptom seems to be gone when temps are roughly 15 or above and when it doesn't stall it shows no sign of wanting to stall, either all or nothing seems so far.

Thanks for your support.

The throttle Body needs to be cleaned, That's what the techs at mazda would do. There is a TSB on this and thats what it calls for. But if i were you i'd check your coolant level and see how fresh that solution is, maybe switch it out. hope this helps.

 

[C.T.B.B.]

Hi Neptune, thanks for the reply.

How would a drop in ambient temperature change the effects of a dirty throttle plate and/or bore? Wouldn't a dirty throttle body cause symptoms regardless of ambient temp? I've seen dirty throttles cause lots of poor idles or start/run rough/stall, but they never idle perfect after starting the way this does then stall suddenly. If that's "what the techs at Mazda would do" then that dealer needs to better educate their technicians. Also, my coolant is adjusted to -40 deg F, is in very good visual condition, pH is at 8 and it has less than .15 volts in it. Though I don't know how poor coolant could directly cause this condition.

I appreciate the advice but really don't think either of those ideas will get me the direction I need to go. Hopefully tmrw night I'll remember to bring home a scanner, though it's supposed to be back up over 20 for the next week so likely won't even act up. Maybe I'd at least get a hint of something to look at when I do get a good shot at reproducing it after temps go back down. I'll keep you posted as soon as I know anything more.

 

[Neptune8]

Hi Neptune, thanks for the reply.

How would a drop in ambient temperature change the effects of a dirty throttle plate and/or bore? Wouldn't a dirty throttle body cause symptoms regardless of ambient temp? I've seen dirty throttles cause lots of poor idles or start/run rough/stall, but they never idle perfect after starting the way this does then stall suddenly. If that's "what the techs at Mazda would do" then that dealer needs to better educate their technicians. Also, my coolant is adjusted to -40 deg F, is in very good visual condition, pH is at 8 and it has less than .15 volts in it. Though I don't know how poor coolant could directly cause this condition.

I appreciate the advice but really don't think either of those ideas will get me the direction I need to go. Hopefully tmrw night I'll remember to bring home a scanner, though it's supposed to be back up over 20 for the next week so likely won't even act up. Maybe I'd at least get a hint of something to look at when I do get a good shot at reproducing it after temps go back down. I'll keep you posted as soon as I know anything more.

Okay , i live in NH so i know how cold it gets haha believe me! in anycase i also suggest checking the oil in your car sometimes could just be a matter of filling the oil up a bit , but i suppose your guess is as good as mine.

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

I'm in here searching for any comments re a cold stall problem I'm having with my "07 MS3. Cold as in below zero F, -30 has been the coldest so far. It starts right up just fine, maybe 1-1.5 second cranking time (a spoken one thousand one, a real second, not a fingersnap) hits its' fast idle and is smooth, then about 3 seconds into idling stalls quickly, not a chug chug sputter to stall, but off as if ignition disappeared. Seemed the first couple times I noticed it it coincided with when I let out the clutch with the trans in neutral to go back into the house...

Dude, it`s frickin freezing out. The car needs to warm up a few seconds longer before it can keep running under even the lightest of loads. This isn`t odd behavior. Mine does it when the temps dip into the teens, but that might be because my EGR valve is shot and I can't afford to replace it right now.

 

[SallySpeed3]

Dude, it`s frickin freezing out. The car needs to warm up a few seconds longer before it can keep running under even the lightest of loads. This isn`t odd behavior. Mine does it when the temps dip into the teens, but that might be because my EGR valve is shot and I can't afford to replace it right now.

He said it stalls a couple seconds after starting it up. He doesn't have the chance to let it warm up because it craps out.

 

[GhostMercury]

My car did this the other day when it was like 0 degrees here in Minnesota. It happened when I let out the clutch. It's happened before, and I just hold the clutch in and release slowly, quickly pushing it back in if it is about to stall. It only takes a couple of seconds while holding the clutch in after start for me to be able to release it. I don't know the reason for this, but I imagine that nothing it mechanically wrong with the car, it's just cold. Same as when you get cold, it's hard to move at first, but after warming up a little bit you work just fine. Nothings broke when your fingers are cold and it's hard to move them.

Well thats my $0.02

 

[NCZ13]

Hm. sounds like it has something to do with the clutch being pulled out.

OP does the car still stall with your foot on the clutch?

even when the car is in neutral, theres still load on the engine. put your car on stands and star the car, the wheels will turn slowly. Perhaps the gear oil really isnt up to temp, and needs a couple secs to get viscous?

 

[C.T.B.B.]

I can safely say that the way my car is acting is not to be expected simply because it's cold outside. Lived here all my life and know most cars made recently can be expected to start well even at 40 below as long as oil, coolant, battery/connections and such have been maintained well. If there is a problem to begin with it will be exacerbated by the cold. Like an EGR issue. (Though I can't really say if your EGR being "shot" is contributing to your symptom without knowing if "shot" means doesn't open, doesn't close, stuck in the middle, mechanically works fine but signal output is low/high/missing, etc etc.)

As soon as I noticed that it seemed to be related to letting the clutch out I tried keeping the clutch depressed. No change. There is no load on it when this happens, though I guess I haven't tried ensuring the blower motor was shut off the night before when I shut the car off. I could see that when the engine is started, as systems come up there is a few moments delay between key being released into the "Run" position and the blower motor starting to run. The increased load put on the alternator might be enough to load the engine enough to cause it when very cold out. But then again... no. Engaging the starter a second time would mean the starter has now drawn out more current from the battery than the alternator would have put in for the short time the engine was running, so requested alternator output after the second start would be higher than the first, so if the alternator had killed it the first time it would certainly do it the second.

Talked myself right out of that idea...lol... Supposed to be in the 20's for the next week so expect no problems but will update when symptom comes back, supposed to be back cold next week. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[C.T.B.B.]

Sorry, couple posts were made as I was writing my last....

Yes, happens even with clutch still depressed, internal transmission resistance was my first thought and why I went to the synthetic trans fluid, just trying to keep all in there spinning as freely as possible.

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

He said it stalls a couple seconds after starting it up. He doesn't have the chance to let it warm up because it craps out.

Actually he originally said it happens when he lets the clutch out.

 

[NCZ13]

hmm interesting. All my driving years have been in california, so ive never had to worry about cold starts etc etc.

how is the start up sound?

 

[C.T.B.B.]

Cranking speed normal, startup sounds normal, no unusual engine noises when idling or as it stalls, nor when restarting it. The serpentine belt tensioner pulley bearing is talking to me a little bit but it does that regardless of ambient or engine temp. Pretty deep in left field to think that maybe a knock sensor is picking up the bearing noise, thinking it's engine detonation and bumping back timing/mixture so far it kills the motor, especially since it only does it once per day and only with very cold engine. But not ruling it out.

 

[ohioan]

My car did this the other day when it was like 0 degrees here in Minnesota. It happened when I let out the clutch. It's happened before, and I just hold the clutch in and release slowly, quickly pushing it back in if it is about to stall. It only takes a couple of seconds while holding the clutch in after start for me to be able to release it. I don't know the reason for this, but I imagine that nothing it mechanically wrong with the car, it's just cold. Same as when you get cold, it's hard to move at first, but after warming up a little bit you work just fine. Nothings broke when your fingers are cold and it's hard to move them.

Well thats my $0.02

That was my thing too.

sorry ctbb, I searched this problem in the engine area of the forum. Like now it's running just like in the summer. Seems under 20 it seems like the car is ready to fall apart: shocks feel/sound broken, starts/stalls, not smooth, seats squeek more, shifting is weird blah blah blah

Just need to move to florida or cali or something...

 

[CorkSport]

Do you have an AEM air straightener installed in your Mazdaspeed intake?

-Derrick

 

[iSpoon]

I have a similar issue with my car when it starts up in cold temps. I have an AEM cai with the straightener installed. Not saying that is the issues, just giving that info due to the previous post asking about it. On my wideband gauge I noticed that it goes real lean and off the chart and stalls. The car starts up just fine, runs for a couple or few seconds, then slowly goes lean till it stalls out. My impression is that it is fuel related but not sure what exactly. I am getting professionally tuned within the next week or so and plan on upgrading the fuel pump at some point as well.

 

[davegutz]

I have same experience as the guys that let the clutch out slowly. Over the holidays I had few consecutive days in northern NH that were around zero F each morning. The first two mornings I noticed that the engine stalled exactly after letting the clutch out after firing up. The next couple days I let the clutch out slowly then pushed it back in when I noticed rpms drop and was able to modulate it out all the way without stall. This definitely did not happen the first couple years I had it. Plus I noticed this year my shifting in 1st and 2nd is really stiff for the first couple miles. What's different is that I did the 30K tranny fluid change (I'm at 33000K now).

When I did the change I put in the recommended 75-90 W synthetic - some store brand from a local parts store. When I changed the fluid I thought it was odd that the old stuff just flew out of the hole like it was water while the new stuff resembled the old rear-end gear oil. I'm off to get some of the Motorcraft oil and change it out TODAY. I'll let you know if I see any change in the cold start characteristic - provided the cold weather holds - it may not.