Lewis7789 2002 Protege5 build thread (tons of pics)

[Lewis7789]

Thanks, George. She's a little rough in real life though. But Sunlight Silver IS the fastest colour so we're good there.

I made a How-To for the lip here with all the info on ordering it and links. However, apparently the cat who was selling them hasn't been responding to PM's about ordering them anymore. I tried to help out a few cats looking for one a few weeks back and they said they never got a response...

 

[THE Phen]

Yeah, anything older than 25 years is exempt from Ohio e-check, as well as trucks larger than 3/4 ton I believe.

 

[JKPgt96]

There is another guy local to me doing a klg4 swap into his P5.

Both sound like a lot of fun! I made 224/252 on a 55 shot on a ZE bottom end. That really moved pretty well. What are you going to use to tune the ZE? Or are you going to run one of the factory KL ECUs?

 

[Lewis7789]

Yes! Now I've got a Probe guy to ask a million questions to! Haha!

I've been lurking in ProbeTalk.com for about a month now doing research. The Probe guys really know their stuff.

Currently, I'm leaning towards a JDM curve neck KLZE. I know the curve neck has the KL01 cams but has more torque in the lower RPM than the straight neck which would be better for my application (circuit racing, not drag). Plus I won't need to relocate my Optima battery or mess with the throttle linkage. I've got a KL31 ECU and JE-50 VAF in my garage. I don't think the different VRIS points will be a big issue with the curve neck and KL31 ECU. (I hope...)

And what did you mean about the axles in the other thread?

Do you have an LSD in your Probe(s)? I'm probably going to save for the MFactory LSD and just use an MX-6 tranny. I just don't know jack about engine/tranny internals so I will probably take it to a local transmission shop.

 

[Evan9999]

Yes! Now I've got a Probe guy to ask a million questions to! Haha!

I've been lurking in ProbeTalk.com for about a month now doing research. The Probe guys really know their stuff.

Currently, I'm leaning towards a JDM curve neck KLZE. I know the curve neck has the KL01 cams but has more torque in the lower RPM than the straight neck which would be better for my application (circuit racing, not drag). Plus I won't need to relocate my Optima battery or mess with the throttle linkage. I've got a KL31 ECU and JE-50 VAF in my garage. I don't think the different VRIS points will be a big issue with the curve neck and KL31 ECU. (I hope...)

And what did you mean about the axles in the other thread?

Do you have an LSD in your Probe(s)? I'm probably going to save for the MFactory LSD and just use an MX-6 tranny. I just don't know jack about engine/tranny internals so I will probably take it to a local transmission shop.

You should get a tranny with a close gear ratio, unless you plan on going more than 120 on the track, although idk how fast you could get at mid-ohio. But for autox, I would think the close gear ratio would help accelerate you around the course really well.

Also, an LSD is a must for sure! Quaife LSDs are pretty good I think.

 

[jri4]

I'm no expert, nor have I been on MidOhio for an official race session (only Parade laps), but I'd say a KL P5 could come damn near close to 120 down the back straight...

 

[Lewis7789]

Evan, I still have a lot more research to do on transmissions and gear ratios but i was never a fan of my stock 5th gear having the RPM's up so high at 75mph. It would be nice to have a longer 5th gear for cruising as I plan on going to a lot more tracks in 2011 for GrandAm races (spectating, of course)

I will just save for the $700 (new) MFactory LSD. Modified Magazine just installed one in their track S2000 so I'll check back on their reveiws soon. The Quaife LSD's are around $1800 (new) though... A weeee bit out of my price range.

Chipmunk, when I rode with Marlon in the MSP he hit about 95mph down the back straight. I don't think I'll be doing much more than that since we will be around the same amount of whp. But he's a much better driver than me so he'll always be faster everywhere on the track. heh-heh

 

[Evan9999]

Haha a Quaife would be sweet though, but maybe not worth it to spend that much on an LSD.

For a tranny, I'd say short gears for an NA engine, and a little bit longer gears if you plan on turbocharging. make use of the spooled turbo instead of having to shift too often.

 

[THE Phen]

Keep in mind that the goal is to have the cruising speed at the peak of the torque curve, that way the engine doesn't have to overwork itself. That's why 4 cylinders usually run higher RPM at highway speed.

 

[CheeseHelmet]

Keep in mind that the goal is to have the cruising speed at the peak of the torque curve, that way the engine doesn't have to overwork itself. That's why 4 cylinders usually run higher RPM at highway speed.

I learn something new everyday on this site, that makes perfect sense

 

[Lewis7789]

That's true, Phen (as we were just discussing in IM). But now that it will be a V6 I hope to have a tranny with a lower 5th gear. That high 5th gear just drives me batty is all. I have tried to shift into 6th several times on accident in my P5. heh-heh

But like I said, I haven't done as much research on the trans as I have on the motor yet. Once the motor is sitting on the engine stand it will be another sleepless month of research on transmissions.

 

[THE Phen]

I learn something new everyday on this site, that makes perfect sense

I aim to please...

 

[JKPgt96]

Yes! Now I've got a Probe guy to ask a million questions to! Haha!

I've been lurking in ProbeTalk.com for about a month now doing research. The Probe guys really know their stuff.

Currently, I'm leaning towards a JDM curve neck KLZE. I know the curve neck has the KL01 cams but has more torque in the lower RPM than the straight neck which would be better for my application (circuit racing, not drag). Plus I won't need to relocate my Optima battery or mess with the throttle linkage. I've got a KL31 ECU and JE-50 VAF in my garage. I don't think the different VRIS points will be a big issue with the curve neck and KL31 ECU. (I hope...)

And what did you mean about the axles in the other thread?

Do you have an LSD in your Probe(s)? I'm probably going to save for the MFactory LSD and just use an MX-6 tranny. I just don't know jack about engine/tranny internals so I will probably take it to a local transmission shop.

Haha, yes I am a Probe guy...and PT is a great spot for information on the 2nd gen stuff, it better after 10+ years of working at it! lol.

Honestly, the torque in the curve neck is not really due to the KL01 cams, it is more because of the very long neck of the manifold versus the straight neck, which is a good bit shorter. I don't believe the straight neck or the klg4 manifold will fit in a P5 anyway (just read, you mentioned this already). The KL01 versus KL31 cams are really not a big deal, especially for the couple hundred extra that they usually cost you. Personally, a set of Colt Tri-Flow cams would be a great answer for your application, they produce a very nice and wide powerband. The VRIS points in the KL31 will be fine for you. You might be best off buying a straight neck ZE, then swapping to a curve neck manifold, and selling the straight neck..curve neck manifolds can be had from any millenia in the yard for cheap..

Also, I would use a Probe transmission. The 4.39 final versus the 4.109 final in the Mx6 would help you I think. Also, I know MFactory will make a custom final drive, as will PAR for the G25M transmission. Is this a strictly track car? Or is this a daily, street car...? Also, you can swap in a 1st gen Probe 2.2 n/a 5th gear and that will give you a longer 5th gear. It is a direct drop-in.

I had a LSD in my car for many years, and ended up selling the transmission a couple years ago, because I am building a transmission to go with my current engine build..so I figured someone else would be able to use it more so than I. I also recommend Pacesetter longtubes..they really wake up the car in comparison to the eBay shorties. I have had eBay headers, Hotshots, and Pacesetters, and the PS headers pulled the hardest.

 

[roy obanion]

There is another guy local to me doing a klg4 swap into his P5.

Both sound like a lot of fun! I made 224/252 on a 55 shot on a ZE bottom end. That really moved pretty well. What are you going to use to tune the ZE? Or are you going to run one of the factory KL ECUs?

Are you talking about Mazkid, or is there another one now?

 

[JKPgt96]

No, I am talking about Ryan (Mazkid)

 

[Lewis7789]

Thanks for the post, JK. I read your posts over on PT too. Lots of good info for me.

I actually bought my motor today (finally after a solid month of research and flip-flopping) from eBay. I got a curve neck KLZE with the engine harness and ECU without the automatic trans (which is good because I don't want that chunk of metal sitting in my garage anyway). I was mostly interested in the engine harness, since I already have a KL31 ECU but I'm sure I can sell one. And it comes with a flywheel, though I've read the MX3 flywheel is better than the stock FW, I might just buy a used Fidanza. I'm really excited about getting the motor though. Hopefully it will be here next week in time for me to clean/paint it at my work while my boss is still on vacation. heh-heh

From what I've read I was thinking the KL31 cams were a bit more hyped up than what they're worth too. I'm still debating/researching aftermarket cams but it does seem a lot of cats aprove of the Colt cams. But I'm not sure if I'll swap those out before the motor is in or just get the motor in then upgrade them later on in 2011.

I'll start researching the Probe trannys now too. The trans is next on the shopping list but as you can see from the last 3 pages of this thread, I don't buy jack without researching the crap out of it. haha. I'm assuming they are a direct fit to the KLZE and Protege too?

Reading all the info about headers, it seems Pace Setter header do indeed produce the most power/torque. I just wish there were more brands to choose from out there. The PS headers sound pretty raspy but simply can't be beat for the price and power. What do you think about the OBX headers? I saw the PS don't have any flex pipe in them but the OBX does. I've got front and rear AWR motor mounts but I don't want to crack anything in the exhaust line without some flex pipe. Then again, I'll need to have a muffler shop weld up my midpipe once the new motor is in anyways, they could always install the flex pipe for me. (thinking out loud...)

ps- My P5 is my daily driven street car but will see some track time (no drag racing though) but it's mostly a street car. But after the motor is in and I've got the Nitto NT-01's wrapped around my Enkei's it will probably see more track time.

 

[THE Phen]

Just couldn't resist, could you? Hahaha.

Oh, and the 4.39 final ratio would take highway cruising RPM up quite a bit... unless the individual gear ratios are taller.

 

[JKPgt96]

Thanks for the post, JK. I read your posts over on PT too. Lots of good info for me.

I actually bought my motor today (finally after a solid month of research and flip-flopping) from eBay. I got a curve neck KLZE with the engine harness and ECU without the automatic trans (which is good because I don't want that chunk of metal sitting in my garage anyway). I was mostly interested in the engine harness, since I already have a KL31 ECU but I'm sure I can sell one. And it comes with a flywheel, though I've read the MX3 flywheel is better than the stock FW, I might just buy a used Fidanza. I'm really excited about getting the motor though. Hopefully it will be here next week in time for me to clean/paint it at my work while my boss is still on vacation. heh-heh

From what I've read I was thinking the KL31 cams were a bit more hyped up than what they're worth too. I'm still debating/researching aftermarket cams but it does seem a lot of cats aprove of the Colt cams. But I'm not sure if I'll swap those out before the motor is in or just get the motor in then upgrade them later on in 2011.

I'll start researching the Probe trannys now too. The trans is next on the shopping list but as you can see from the last 3 pages of this thread, I don't buy jack without researching the crap out of it. haha. I'm assuming they are a direct fit to the KLZE and Protege too?

Reading all the info about headers, it seems Pace Setter header do indeed produce the most power/torque. I just wish there were more brands to choose from out there. The PS headers sound pretty raspy but simply can't be beat for the price and power. What do you think about the OBX headers? I saw the PS don't have any flex pipe in them but the OBX does. I've got front and rear AWR motor mounts but I don't want to crack anything in the exhaust line without some flex pipe. Then again, I'll need to have a muffler shop weld up my midpipe once the new motor is in anyways, they could always install the flex pipe for me. (thinking out loud...)

ps- My P5 is my daily driven street car but will see some track time (no drag racing though) but it's mostly a street car. But after the motor is in and I've got the Nitto NT-01's wrapped around my Enkei's it will probably see more track time.

Thanks..I have been messing with n/a KL cars for a long time now..

The ZE ECU will work for you.

Fidanza (9lbs) > MX3 flywheel (can shave to ~14lbs) > Stock (23-25lbs)

The response from the Fidanza is amazing, and having a replaceable friction surface is nice..I love mine, and will always use one.

KL31 Cams..I wouldn't spend the money on them, save your money and later on once you get it running and such get yourself a set of Colt Tri-Flows. I actually have have several sets of Colt Cams in my car, because I do testing for them, and I was really impressed with the Tri-Flows. Delta Camshafts will also grind/weld whatever cams you would like, and they are MUCH cheaper than Colt. Delta is actually doing cams for me.

Probe trans, is identical inside and out to a mx6/626 trans..aside from the final drive gear..so anything the mx6 trans will fit, the probe will fit. (ZE included)

Pacesetters make the most power, but have an untuned sound to them. OBX/eBay are all Hotshot style headers and will sound better, but make less power. Also, be weary, some of the knockoff headers are thin and the sound they make is a bit 'tinny'. If you go the shorty route I recommend finding a used set of hotshots, there are just no other brands for the KL with the same kind of quality.

I would be shocked to see the exhaust or anything crack..you have rubber exhaust hangers, and the motor really moves VERY little with AWR mounts in there.

 

[hat1018]

OK, I read the whole thing. Congrats on the engine buy! Get to work son, spring is only like what 5~6 months away.

 

[PrinceValorum]

You got so excited with your new motor toys you forgot about your new wheels... Hopefully these aren't too dark, my screen is beyond bright so everything looks ok to me.

I had no idea the Probe tranny was 4.39 ratio. That's Civic Si territory.. I've heard of a lot of the Probe guys using the 626 5th gear to have a short ratio with a longer gear for the highway, but again I didn't know you could use the one out of the F2 (2.2L). Kinda cool, since afaik those engines are not even close to related.