Honda CR-V 4WD? Nit Pick Question

Pitter

Pitter
Contributor
:
2020 CX-5 Signature Azul Metalico
Hadn't paid attention before but I notices today that some Honda CR-Vs I see on the road carry a "4WD" badge. Nitpicking as I said in the post tittle but is this a legitimate description? I always thought that there was difference established (in recent years) between vehicles whose front and rear axels could be locked together (i.e. four wheel drive) and those that primarily use one of the axles but send drive to the other depending on traction conditions. (I say recent years because the badge "All Wheel Drive" was placed on International Harvester pickups and Scouts in the 1960s and 70s until 1975 when pickup truck production ended. had it not the use of the term by so many manufacturerstodam would no doubt have been contested by International Harvester.) A number of brands sold in the US such as Nissan, Toyota and Jeep sell models in which locking of front and rear axles together is available. I'm not up up on all the current offerings but before I bought my Signature I owned a Renault Duster 4x4 here in Colombia. And it could indeed be called a 4x4 because it had Nissan's "intelligent four wheel drive" system that includes "2WD"drive, "Intelligent AWD" and "Lock" i.e. locked four wheel drive that could not be used on paved roads. I have a pretty good understanding of how our all wheel drive functions on our CX-5s and it is by no means "four wheel drive" but how is it that Honda can describe their system as "four wheel drive"?

Sorry, should have used paragraphs.
 
Last edited:
Hadn't paid attention before but I notices today that some Honda CR-Vs I see on the road carry a "4WD" badge. Nitpicking as I said in the post tittle but is this a legitimate description? I always thought that there was difference established (in recent years) between vehicles whose front and rear axels could be locked together (i.e. four wheel drive) and those that primarily use one of the axles but send drive to the other depending on traction conditions. (I say recent years because the badge "All Wheel Drive" was placed on International Harvester pickups and Scouts in the 1960s and 70s until 1975 when pickup truck production ended. had it not the use of the term by so many manufacturerstodam would no doubt have been contested by International Harvester.) A number of brands sold in the US such as Nissan, Toyota and Jeep sell models in which locking of front and rear axles together is available. I'm not up up on all the current offerings but before I bought my Signature I owned a Renault Duster 4x4 here in Colombia. And it could indeed be called a 4x4 because it had Nissan's "intelligent four wheel drive" system that includes "2WD"drive, "Intelligent AWD" and "Lock" i.e. locked four wheel drive that could not be used on paved roads. I have a pretty good understanding of how our all wheel drive functions on our CX-5s and it is by no means "four wheel drive" but how is it that Honda can describe their system as "four wheel drive"?

Sorry, should have used paragraphs.
Yes, my 1998 Honda CR-V AWD from Japan does have a tiny “4WD” sticker on rear window which is the only sign to distinguish from the FWD CR-V if we don’t look at the drive train underneath. But remember in our CX-5 it also uses “4WD” as AWD warning indicator and “4WD System Malfunction”、”4WD System High Load”、“4WD System Inspection Required“ warning messages to indicate there’re problems in our AWD system. So I believe “4WD” is a customary term in Japan to represent both AWD and 4WD vehicles.

FC3128FA-25BD-43E5-95CD-8320A875AFA9.jpeg
 
Good find thank you. Wonder why Mazda chose that terminology for their AWD System warning.
 
Good find thank you. Wonder why Mazda chose that terminology for their AWD System warning.

Mazda is simply using the generic terminology for a system that drives all four wheels. Also realize that a lot of the dash and underlying components ~may~ be shared with vehicles that are actual offroad 4WD capable and using a more generic warning covers whats needed to alert the driver AND reduce cost in production.


"All-wheel drive (AWD) historically was synonymous with "four-wheel drive" on four-wheeled vehicles, and six-wheel drive on 6×6s, and so on, being used in that fashion at least as early as the 1920s.[9][10] Today in North America, the term is applied to both heavy vehicles and light passenger vehicles."
 
FUN FACT:

The 2006-2014 Honda Ridgeline had a "4WD" emblem on the tailgate. The 2017-current Ridgeline has an "AWD" emblem on the tailgate. Both generations are primarily front-wheel drive, but torque can be sent to the rear wheels proactively to reduce the propensity for wheel slip and reactively if wheel slip occurs.

Both 4WD and AWD designations are correct.
Both 4WD and AWD designations are incorrect.

Wait. What?

Why both are correct:

Because torque can be sent to all wheels and since there are four of them, both 4WD and AWD are correct. If the vehicle had six wheels, but only four of them could propel the vehicle, "4WD" would be correct, but "AWD" would not. A unicycle is "AWD", but not "4WD". :)

Why neither is correct:

The Ridgeline's drive system uses an open differential for the front wheels and a twin-clutch rear drive unit for the rear wheels. When the rear clutches are engaged, the vehicle is technically 3WD (both rear wheels and whichever front wheel that has the least traction).

There are many variations of both "4WD" and "AWD" systems that can catch engineers off guard and completely confuse the majority of owners.

The Chevrolet Colorado and Toyota 4Runner, for example, have an "automatic 4WD" mode that is more similar to AWD. In manual 4WD mode, a locking center differential sends power to the front and rear axles. In automatic 4WD mode, a clutch in the center differential sends power to the front wheels only when rear wheel slip is detected (like some AWD systems).

Traditionally, 4WD refers to systems that either engage both axles or not in a binary fashion while AWD refers to systems that can engage a second axle in a variable, analog fashion. Typically, 4WD systems are more robust while AWD systems are more convenient.

Mazda's AWD system uses an open differential on the front and rear axles with a single clutch that can engage the rear axle proactively and reactively. This makes their AWD vehicles technically 2WD (the front wheel with the least traction plus the rear wheel with the least traction). Power can be transferred from side to side by braking the slipping wheel which will transfer torque to the wheel with more traction, but this can only occur reactively.

In short, Mazda's AWD system is one of the least-effective, but least-expensive AWD systems on the market.

The current CR-V uses a similar system called "Real Time AWD with Intelligent Control System" which is similar to Mazda's. This system uses an electrically-powered hydraulic pump to apply a clutch that can send torque to the open rear differential before wheel slip occurs. Older CR-Vs used "Real Time AWD" (without Intelligent Control System) which was purely mechanical. A hydraulically-actuated clutch was used to send power to the rear axle, but the system could only engage the clutch while the front wheels were spinning faster than the rears.

Honda's iVTM-4 (and Acura's similar 3rd and 4th generation SH-AWD) AWD system is among the most capable in the industry. These systems use twin clutches (one for each rear wheel) and the rear wheels are overdriven relative to the front wheels. This design allows for a "locker" effect and torque vectoring where more torque can be sent to the outer rear wheel while cornering.

Mazda's AWD system is certainly better than nothing, but it simply isn't capable of offering the traction and handling advantages of Honda's iVTM-4. It is, however, at least as good as the RTAWDwICS in the CR-V. :)
 
A true 4WD vehicle has locking differentials and a body-on-frame design. AWD uses brakes to keep tires from spinning like a Subaru, and has a unibody design.
One will get you across the beach, the other will get you stuck, but has a much better ride on the freeway.
 
A true 4WD vehicle has locking differentials and a body-on-frame design. AWD uses brakes to keep tires from spinning like a Subaru, and has a unibody design.
One will get you across the beach, the other will get you stuck, but has a much better ride on the freeway.
My Jeep was definitely a true 4WD and AWD vehicle and did not have a body on frame design. It had ELSD's front and rear, and could either solidly lock the axles, had a low range, and could real-time adjust 100x per second any imaginable torque combination from 0-100% to any one of four tires, or any combo thereof. Default was 52% rear/ 48% front, I believe.
 
My Jeep was definitely a true 4WD and AWD vehicle and did not have a body on frame design. It had ELSD's front and rear, and could either solidly lock the axles, had a low range, and could real-time adjust 100x per second any imaginable torque combination from 0-100% to any one of four tires, or any combo thereof. Default was 52% rear/ 48% front, I believe.
Yep. From what I constantly see, Jeeps, 4runners and pick up trucks are pretty much the only things NOT getting stuck on the beach. We've dug out so many people that think they have 4WD in their Subaru..Even your Grand Cherokee with it's unibody is a little sketchy in the deep ruts and s***. Hit the wrong rut at the wrong angle and...
Locking diffs and a ladder frame. Crap on the freeway but the pay-off is the sand or mud. Common knowledge.
 
Back