First oil change on 2020 CX-5 Signature: WTF Surprise?

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2020 CX5 Signature
I purchased my 2020 Signature at the beginning of October last year. For the last month, the dash has been telling me it's time to change the engine oil, which I did yesterday.

I purchased the Mazda 1WPY-14-302 oil filters six months ago to check that the filter removal cap I used on my previous 2000 Camry would fit. The cap fit fine. 5W-30 full synthetic ILSAC GF6A oil purchased from Costco.

After draining the oil out of the pan and installing a Fumoto drain valve I was quite surprised to find that the oil filter removal cap did not fit the factory installed oil filter; the filter was too wide!

WTF? I've been reading this board since mid-summer last year and can't believe I missed the fact that the factory installed oil filter is wider in diameter then the current made-in-Thailand ones being sold!

Fortunately, the old "hammer and screwdriver" method for removing an oil filter worked. But color me surprised that this was needed!
 

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yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
I purchased my 2020 Signature at the beginning of October last year. For the last month, the dash has been telling me it's time to change the engine oil, which I did yesterday.

I purchased the Mazda 1WPY-14-302 oil filters six months ago to check that the filter removal cap I used on my previous 2000 Camry would fit. The cap fit fine. 5W-30 full synthetic ILSAC GF6A oil purchased from Costco.

After draining the oil out of the pan and installing a Fumoto drain valve I was quite surprised to find that the oil filter removal cap did not fit the factory installed oil filter; the filter was too wide!

WTF? I've been reading this board since mid-summer last year and can't believe I missed the fact that the factory installed oil filter is wider in diameter then the current made-in-Thailand ones being sold!

Fortunately, the old "hammer and screwdriver" method for removing an oil filter worked. But color me surprised that this was needed!
Yes, Thai made OEM Denso oil filters are a bit smaller in diameter than Japanese made OEM Tokyo Roki oil filters. The stock oil filter on 2.5T is Japanese made Tokyo Roki PY8W-14-302, but Mazda North American Operations had stopped supplying PY8W-14-302 a couple of years ago and it’s superseded by Thai made Denso 1WPY-14-302 which is smaller. Usually it isn’t an issue unless you use cap wrench on the oil filter. I ordered a "Genuine" Mazda Oil Filter Wrench A255 for $10.20 from Med Center Mazda along with oil change kits years ago but it ended up exactly the same as https://www.amazon.com/dp/ (commissions earned)https://www.amazon.com/dp/ (commissions earned) The sizes of CTA A255 cap wrench are 65 & 67 mm with 14 flutes. It fits Mazda OEM Japanese oil filter perfectly on 67 mm and OEM Thai oil filter on 65 mm size.

Here is the size comparison between Japanese and Thai oil filters for my 2.5L. The sizes of OEM oil filters used on the 2.5T are the same as on the 2.5L.

0746F9E5-5DEA-4CC5-A1DD-3B1914FC25E5.jpeg

214D33A7-31A7-4CFC-8239-66EFF986A3C9.jpeg
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
⋯ I purchased the Mazda 1WPY-14-302 oil filters six months ago to check that the filter removal cap I used on my previous 2000 Camry would fit. The cap fit fine.
This makes sense, as Mazda 1WPY-14-302 oil filter is made in Thailand by Denso (Toyota).


⋯ and installing a Fumoto drain valve
Fumoto drain valve has its drawbacks too. Once installed, the threaded part of Fumoto valve is too long and extended into the oil pan so that it is not flush with the pan inside. This causes good amount of old oil (and debris if any) can’t be drained out. And it could allow more build-ups of unwanted particles inside the pan. Not to mention it’s slower to drain as the oil drain speed is restricted.



Above is a very informative link about
Fumoto drain valve although this "Mythbusters: Fumoto Engine Oil Drain Valve" is for a 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STi:
NateCal said:
Myth #1- The Fumoto Engine Oil Drain Valve, once installed, extends into the oil pan so that it is not flush and could allow for build up of unwanted particles inside the pan.

So as far as Myth #1 goes, it is:
The Fumoto valve extends aprox 1/8" to 3/16" into the oil pan.

Myth #2- Due to Myth #1, metal shavings and other particles will remain in the oil pan when using the Fumoto Oil Drain Valve to change your engine oil.

Plausible!


Also this observation is consistent with the statement I saw for the CX-5 with a Fumoto drain valve:
NateCal said:
To me, that says the 1/8" to 3/16" of the valve extended inside the pan is NOT stopping the oil from bringing all the crap out with it when it is draining.

However, I cleaned my oil pan again, and planned to remove the Fumoto valve and flush a full quart of fresh oil through just to see what else would come out without the valve installed.

When I removed the valve I was kinda of shocked by the amount of oil that was still in the oil pan. There was probably a good 10 second stream of oil that came out once the valve was removed.

Then I ran the full quart of fresh oil through (without the valve installed). I then repeated the process of carefully dumping the oil, leaving the crap behind, to examine the oil pan. And the was NOTHING. The pan was clean as a whistle. Everything came out when I initially drained the oil using the valve. Even with the little oil that was trapped in the pan by the Fumoto valve.

nutcore said:
thank you for some actual evidence Nate. It's good to know that Fomoto lies to your face claiming that the threads don't extend into the pan.
Q. Does my Engine Oil Drain Valve protrude into the interior of the oil pan and prevent full drainage of my engine oil?

A. No. The threaded oil drain plug hole is always reinforced to accept the threaded bolt of the drain plug. In most cases, the Engine Oil Drain Valve will not extend past this threaded portion of the drain hole and will allow the oil to be properly drained. Your Engine Oil Drain Valve will let you drain your engine oil while it is hot without burning your hands and it is much more effective than trying to pump the oil out from above.
 
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2020 CX5 Signature
Thank you for the replies regarding the difference in diameter size between the factory-installed oil filter and that of the currently available made-in-Thailand oil filter. I'm still surprised that this isn't common knowledge.

For the folks who replied regarding my installation of a Fumoto valve, thank you for your time but everything you have said has been said in discussion threads specifically about Fumoto valves and does not need to be repeated here. If it makes you feel better, I have the front of the car up on ramps AND I have notched the threads of the valve to allow for more oil to be drained. What little oil does not come out does not concern me, nor does anything in the oil that settles to the bottom of the pan as it will most likely stay at the bottom of the pan.

Again, thanks to all for your time.
 
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Phoenix
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2021 signature
Exact part no. for the Fumoto valve? Did you get the short or long nipple? did you need their exender adapter or does everything clear the pan okay. Thanks
 
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2020 CX5 Signature
I purchased an F106S short nipple with included locking clip, right angle and straight plastic attachment and drain hose, and two nipple covers off of eBay. No adapter needed, even though the Fumoto website said it might be necessary. I can see how the valve sticking out a little ways though does take up a bit of room where the oil filter is located, but the cap tool I have to remove the filter still easily fits in the space.

If I had to do it again, I might purchase the F106N with the longer nipple, now that I see how protected the valve location is.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
I've used them on my last 5 cars. Never needed the adapter though they usually say "may need adatper" - smh, they should know if it does or doesn't
The Fumoto claims it is unlikely that the Fumoto valve would be sticking out inside the oil pan, and Fumoto valve would allow you to drain just as much oil as your original drain plug. But we all know these aren’t true for CX-5 and many other vehicles unless you modify the valve by yourself.

Does my Fumoto valve stick out inside of my oil pan?
 

njaremka

Wiggity-Wack-O-Tack
Contributor
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2012 Mini R55
Here's my $0.02....

Use the Fumoto if you want to. If you don't want to use, don't.

Also, if you can't remove the oil filter by hand, its on too tight. When installing the filter, remember to only turn it until the gasket contacts the sealing surface, then another 1/2-3/4 turn.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Here's my $0.02....

Use the Fumoto if you want to. If you don't want to use, don't.
Yes. But the company is making false claim and false advertising of its product which is something people should be aware of. And people should understand what they actually got from the product is the key. Not to mention the confusion and unclear of the particular model of the product for a specific vehicle like CX-5.


Also, if you can't remove the oil filter by hand, its on too tight. When installing the filter, remember to only turn it until the gasket contacts the sealing surface, then another 1/2-3/4 turn.
Yes. One of the good things of the OEM Thai made Denso oil filters is there’re —①——②——③——④— marks on the metal shell, so that you can tell easily how much partial turn you have made with these marks as the reference point after contacting the seating surface.
 
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186746

Yes. But the company is making false claim and false advertising of its product which is something people should be aware of. And people should understand what they actually got from the product is the key. Not to mention the confusion and unclear of the particular model of the product for a specific vehicle like CX-5.
Your opinion, based on one user’s experience with an older Subaru STi (which if you read his whole post, he states that all the contaminants were removed with the initial drain via valve, and only a small amount of oil remained in the pan) does not make their claims or advertising false.

There are also numerous actual users of the product (I’m assuming you are not based on your need to bad mouth it repeatedly) have used it with great results on many different vehicles, including much higher performance engines than this Mazda with many examples of 150k+ miles and no issues. Do you have any facts to backup your opinion that using this product is detrimental to engine life?
 
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2018 CX-5 Sport
I can't get my filter off by hand either. And the valve isn't detrimental to engine life if you change the oil regularly. But it doesn't drain as effectively. Removing the plug lets the oil gush out fast and more completely. In theory there shouldn't be any particles in the oil pan since the filter gets them out.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Your opinion, based on one user’s experience with an older Subaru STi (which if you read his whole post, he states that all the contaminants were removed with the initial drain via valve, and only a small amount of oil remained in the pan) does not make their claims or advertising false.

There are also numerous actual users of the product (I’m assuming you are not based on your need to bad mouth it repeatedly) have used it with great results on many different vehicles, including much higher performance engines than this Mazda with many examples of 150k+ miles and no issues. Do you have any facts to backup your opinion that using this product is detrimental to engine life?
This had been discussed here before. The ex-moderator Chris_Top_Her did an experiment on his 2015 CX-5 by actually removing the oil pan and seeing how much the Fumoto valve sticking out inside the oil pan, and how much the oil will be stayed inside the oil pan with Fumoto valve. When he removed the oil pan, the substantial amount of oil left in the oil pan leaking out and caught him by surprise even thought he had drained all the oil with Fumoto valve. He posted pictures showing how much the oil will be stayed in the oil pan with Fumoto valve sticking out inside the oil pan. There’s another member actually measured the length of the thread of the drain hole, and cut the Fumoto valve to match, so that it won’t be sticking out inside the oil pan.

And when did I say ”using this product is detrimental to engine life?

The fact of matter is the company claims “It is unlikely that your Fumoto valve would be sticking out inside the oil pan. Your Fumoto valve would allow you to drain just as much oil as your original drain plug., which simply is not true!

No, it’s not just my personal opinion, it’s the fact.
 
1

186746

This had been discussed here before. The ex-moderator Chris_Top_Her did an experiment on his 2015 CX-5 by actually removing the oil pan and seeing how much the Fumoto valve sticking out inside the oil pan, and how much the oil will be stayed inside the oil pan with Fumoto valve. When he removed the oil pan, the substantial amount of oil left in the oil pan leaking out and caught him by surprise even thought he had drained all the oil with Fumoto valve. He posted pictures showing how much the oil will be stayed in the oil pan with Fumoto valve sticking out inside the oil pan. There’s another member actually measured the length of the thread of the drain hole, and cut the Fumoto valve to match, so that it won’t be sticking out inside the oil pan.

And when did I say ”using this product is detrimental to engine life?

The fact of matter is the company claims “It is unlikely that your Fumoto valve would be sticking out inside the oil pan. Your Fumoto valve would allow you to drain just as much oil as your original drain plug., which simply is not true!

No, it’s not just my personal opinion, it’s the fact.
OK, you implied and continue to imply that there is a problem with using the product And you are cautioning against its use.

You do realize that there is always oil in the engine that doesn’t drain out with an oil change, right?

You’re also aware that the drain plug enters the pan horizontally, slightly above the bottom of the pan, correct? So there will always be a small amount of oil remaining in the pan, and that this is only marginally increased by using the valve?

Do you have any measures of the actual additional amount of oil left in the pan, or what % of the total engine oil is actually drained and how that differs with the valve?

Do you expect Fumoto to purchase an oil pan, or remove the oil pan from every make and model of vehicle that their valves can fit In order to test fit every one?

It’s convenient that you bold half of the statement, and you ignore the first half, which clearly makes it not a 100% statement, so not false advertising or something you have proven untrue.

The fact is that two anecdotal experiences, neither of which is on this specific engine, without any empirical measurements, to refute their claim is rather useless, especially when the OP and another participant had already said it’s been discussed before, and each person can make their choice. But you continue to make multiple posts against a product other people are interested in, have already seen your first post in the thread about your concerns and don’t need it repeated.
 
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2018 Mazda6 GTR
Just changed the oil yesterday on my (new to me) 6 and in the process installed a Fumoto F106N (long nipple). It fit just fine and I like having the longer hose attachment. There were no clearance issues of any kind. Bought on Amazon for $23+.


I also bought 10' of drain hose at Home Depot for $3+


I am looking forward to doing away with the stupid drain pan! Now if I could find a nice substitute for the plastic push-fasteners on the access panel ... ;)
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
OK, you implied and continue to imply that there is a problem with using the product And you are cautioning against its use.
Imply? I implied nothing but only stated the fact. Fumoto valve website claims
it is unlikely that a Fumoto valve will stick out into your oil pan by comparing the thread length between its valve and drain plug, but not to the oil pan thread directly. The fact is on most engines including SkyActiv-G 2.0L、2.5L、and 2.5T the thread on drain plug is longer than oil pan thread. Here’s the comparison between a shortened F106 Fumoto valve by cutting the excess threads off to match the pan thread on a CX-5, and a valve before shortened:

F8B8A04E-1BCC-44CF-B656-F7C7E389F924.jpeg


Given the concern for not getting all the oil out of the oil pan, I cut about 1.5 threads off the valve after doing my best to measure how deep the threaded part of the pan is. The brass is soft and I was able to clean it up using a small file. I'm looking forward to the next oil change as it should be easy.

Thanks to whoever suggested using plastic shopping bags around the oil filter. That worked great!


You do realize that there is always oil in the engine that doesn’t drain out with an oil change, right?
Yes.


“You’re also aware that the drain plug enters the pan horizontally, slightly above the bottom of the pan, correct?
Sorry, you obviously have never changed the oil by yourself and the drain plug on oil pan does have some angles like ~30° down and facing rearward on most engines. Hence if the thread part of Fumoto valve is too long sticking up in the oil pan, the drain inlet will be higher and more oil will be left in the pan can’t be drained out.

986A0E6A-E17F-43AB-A3B8-D785955D31AE.jpeg



So there will always be a small amount of oil remaining in the pan, and that this is only marginally increased by using the valve?
Not just marginal, much more oil than you expected based on our forum member’s experience such as Chris_Top_Her and many others on other vehicles.


Do you have any measures of the actual additional amount of oil left in the pan, or what % of the total engine oil is actually drained and how that differs with the valve?
It’s funny you don’t use common sense but asking me to present actual amount in precision? Why don’t you or ask Fumoto valve to present evidence to prove its valve will match the pan thread length and the valve won’t be sticking out in the oil pan?


Do you expect Fumoto to purchase an oil pan, or remove the oil pan from every make and model of vehicle that their valves can fit In order to test fit every one?
The manufacture certainly is responsible to prove its statement!


It’s convenient that you bold half of the statement, and you ignore the first half, which clearly makes it not a 100% statement, so not false advertising or something you have proven untrue.
If their claim is not 100% accurate, it’s false advertising to me:


The fact is that two anecdotal experiences, neither of which is on this specific engine, without any empirical measurements, to refute their claim is rather useless, especially when the OP and another participant had already said it’s been discussed before, and each person can make their choice. But you continue to make multiple posts against a product other people are interested in, have already seen your first post in the thread about your concerns and don’t need it repeated.
The 2 experiences I mentioned in earlier posts are only partial, and one is from SkyActiv-G 2.5L with specified F106 Fumoto valve. I mentioned the Fumoto valve first is only to remind user to aware its drawbacks, and point out the false information stated on Fumoto’s website. The rest related posts are to reply others and your arguments, where did I repeat the discussion on the topic in this thread? Here’re more discussions for the shortcomings on Fumoto valve in this forum by other members:

Hey guys, I came across a review on Amazon that brings up an issue with this valve. Below is the key part of the review:

A few months later, I went to replace the oil pan gasket so I drained the oil using this valve and removed the bolts around the pan. I noticed that when I tilted the pan, more oil drained even though the drain is located at the very lowest point in the pan. Then when the pan was removed, I saw why this was happening. It did not drain all of the oil. The valve extends into the pan.
The drain valve threads into the hole in the bottom of the pan, but it also extends through the hole, in my case by about 3/16". So when you open the valve, all but the last 3/16" of oil is drained, not ALL of the oil. Also, any thing heavy (carbon chips, metal chips) stays in the pan instead of draining out with the oil.


I was going to get this valve for the convenience factor, but not sure that's more important than getting all the old oil and fragments out. Your thoughts?

Bingo! Oil drain valves are a solution looking for a problem.

Anyone who finds it too difficult to remove a plug to drain their oil a couple of times a year probably shouldn't be changing their own oil. You let the plug fall into the drain vessel as you unscrew it and after the oil has drained, you pick it up with your rag and wipe it off. That's why all oil drain vessels have a screen or obstruction big enough that the drain plug cannot fall into the vessel.

The other potential issue with a drain valve is failure. A properly torqued plug is not going to fail. Failure could happen from hitting a rock or other hard debris on the road at speed or it could simply leak due to a faulty valve. Of course drain valve failure is very rare so that alone is not a big reason to avoid them. And the fact that they don't allow a complete drain is, in the bigger picture, not a huge deal. The best reason to avoid them is that they are an unnecessary expense. I say "unnecessary" because a drain plug works very well and poses no issues. Besides, you don't have to buy the drain plug - it's included with the car for free!


Put the money in the bank or retirement account and let it grow, compounding every year for 20-40 years. You might be surprised how much it actually improves your life.

Good Job...

"Blue Reflex" said in part...



Your finished job photo looks good. The only thing I would have done differently (not that there's anything wrong with what you did), was to ream out the inside hole so that it was more like the original.

As far as what you used? I love my "if it can't be done with a Dremel Tool, it can't be done" and would have used that.

Once again... Good Job!

CX5T Lover

And with your user ID “186746” (or “ZOOM21” before you unregistered from the forum?) you simply posted several arguments against me without any evidence defending the Fumoto valve and gone from the forum afterwards. Are you related to Fumoto company?
 
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