Engine Degreaser/Alternator P5 Questions, Easy Help Needed!

[redmang]

Hello Everyone!

I came by this website while googling some random problems that I've been having with my car. Never knew or figured there would be such interest!

I literally know nothing about vehicles besides what I read about while on the internet...anyways, I was hoping if anyone could give me their expert advice for a problem I just encountered. I've spent the last 3 days reading all about it just to figure out what and who to believe.

Here's the background info...

I had a mechanic buddy helping me out with a couple issues, one being a dirty engine.

We took the car to a car wash, and he sprayed the entire engine down with degreaser (and the entire car as well, but thats a different issue itself!). Nothing was covered up...no bag or foil around the alternator. He claimed since I had no carberator, that this is the only part of an engine that you shouldn't get wet. Then a pressure wand was used to rinse the engine and was 20 min later the car was started and I went home.

36 hours later, with the car being driven minimally, the battery lights comes on. I get the car home, and sure enough, the alternator is dead. The problem was diagnosed by the same mechanic who did the engine cleaning, who also tested the alternator by starting the car and removing the positive wire terminal from the battery. I also read later that this was a huge mistake too, since this is an old school trick that shouldn't be applied to new vehicles.

Im the cars second owner, I bought it at 80,000km. Not sure if it had ever been replaced before, but the car never gave any symptoms of failure. It currently has 165,000km.

Could the alternator have failed on its own, and that it was a coincidence it failed? Or is the mechanic trying to cheat me because he himself doesn't know what they're doing?

He claims the following 3 statements...

• people that detail engines do not cover the alternator because it doesnt matter
• rain water would have already killed my alternator if they couldnt handle water
• degreaser will not hurt an alternator if its only left on for 5 minutes.

I say hes trying to cheat me, does anyone agree ? With the way the engine looks, wouldn't it be impossible to not get any degreaser inside of the alternator?

 

[CheeseHelmet]

Rain isn't the same as a jet of high-pressure water...

That being said, I doubt that killed it in itself. People pressure wash their engines all the time without problems. I would never clean my engine that way, but that's besides the point.

It could be that the alternator was on its way out and the water/degreaser pushed it over the edge. You got almost 10 years out of it, I'd say that's pretty good. I know mine was replaced at ~140K because of a seized bearing.

Buy a remanufactured unit and have your mechanic friend install it for free ... provided you still trust him to do that.

 

[zoom zoom sp20]

High-pressure water is a no no for sure

 

[JiggaBro]

you need to replace your mechanic first!

 

[redmang]

Rain isn't the same as a jet of high-pressure water...

That being said, I doubt that killed it in itself. People pressure wash their engines all the time without problems. I would never clean my engine that way, but that's besides the point.

It could be that the alternator was on its way out and the water/degreaser pushed it over the edge. You got almost 10 years out of it, I'd say that's pretty good. I know mine was replaced at ~140K because of a seized bearing.

Buy a remanufactured unit and have your mechanic friend install it for free ... provided you still trust him to do that.

Yeah I don't think I'll be asking for any more favours.

you need to replace your mechanic first!

Hard to find a proper replacement...might just have to trust a small reputable shop instead.

And by the way, half of people agreed it was the degreaser that killed the alternator, and half say it could have been a coincidence it dying when it did.

 

[redmang]

When googling "alternator engine degreaser', the first few results all emphasized keeping the degreaser outside of the alternator. Same thing happened when I googled engine detailing... most people recommended covering it up and covering the electronics when cleaning the engine. but I guess not everyone plays by the rules!

I wish there was a clearer answer...could they tell me exactly the cause of the failure if I take the alternator in to get rebuilt?

 

[Jordysoso]

They may be able to tell you but I've never known anyone to get any company to tear apart an alternator just to know why it failed. Go on rock auto and get an NSA alternator, they are the cheapest and no core charge. I replaced mine 10k ago with one (seized bearings as well) and no problems so far. Definitely from now on clean your motor by hand, I would never take a power washer to it.

 

[wallabe]

Yeah I don't think I'll be asking for any more favours.



Hard to find a proper replacement...might just have to trust a small reputable shop instead.

Yeah this board is the only mechanic you need. If you can turn a wrench you can fix your own car. My advice and I'm sure everyone else advice is this......Always research and confirm / Ask questions before working on your vehicle. Reason being, if you didn't follow the instructions and encountered a problem half-way through the only person to blame is yourself. Which will cost more money and time. Here is the "How-To-Section" for out cars.

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123715657-How-To-Quick-Links-(sticky-version)

 

[wallabe]

They may be able to tell you but I've never known anyone to get any company to tear apart an alternator just to know why it failed. Go on rock auto and get an NSA alternator, they are the cheapest and no core charge. I replaced mine 10k ago with one (seized bearings as well) and no problems so far. Definitely from now on clean your motor by hand, I would never take a power washer to it.

There is a company here that repairs alternators. Ranging from $35 to $100, Mine cost me $45 plus they cleaned it and made it look damn near new. Saving me the price of a new one at the cost of $200

 

[wolleymp5]

Dude an alternator is an electrical device it has a rotor with copper wire and magnets. It also has brushes or it could be brush-less so there's a couple things that could go wrong with putting water into it, just water, not to mention pressurized water.

1) the rotor has a grease at the ends so it can rotate better, strip that off and you have high friction which will cause the rotor to over heat and transmit that heat all through the coils, brushes and any other electrical contacts and can fry them.

2)Copper + water creates a build up very similar to rust. The coils rusted will prevent proper conduction for the electricity, rusted magnets will not work fine and finally if the rotor rusts it will eventually cease to rotate because the rust will create buildup at the rotor and at the stator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_generator) and eventually create some what of a seal preventing free rotation.

3) Pressure water could have detached the contacts (brushes) or (brush less) which are in charge of touching the rotor or coils once the energy is generated and taking it back to the wires which are connected to the car to charge the battery. Take these off and no more power.

4) if the alternator has any other electrical parts like a sensor or what not the rust issue applies.

5) Turn on the car with the alternator having water inside and you just got yourself a short-circuited alternator and most likely would get fried.

These are what I can think of i'm sure there'smore.

I would say replace your alternator and crack open the old one. Look inside any signs of burnt wire would give it off a short circuit. See if it had grease where it's supposed to have and if it had rust. The rust could not be from the water since it was 36hrs but the rotor broken or the stator worn off were the rotor gets held would indicate a possible failure due to not having grease. Also check the wires where the stator contacts the rotor see if they came off and if it looks 'torn off' they could come off due to time or from the pressurized water(torn).

Also alternators do tend to die with time, if the person before didn't change it then its about time it gave out at ~100kmi(160kkm). Mine gave out at around ~85Kmi(120kkm). Its a tough call, but i would say the pressure wash just expedited the alternators death, but it was going to give out probably soon any how.

Make sure you go get your battery checked because when alternators die it causes a short-circuit current to the battery which causes damage to it and a week later with a new alternator you could get battery charging issues.

 

[redmang]

Make sure you go get your battery checked because when alternators die it causes a short-circuit current to the battery which causes damage to it and a week later with a new alternator you could get battery charging issues.

I'm definitely going to replace it when I get the alternator replaced. Also, I think I'll just pay to have it rebuilt, then I could probably just sell it...

But to get by for now (to get from home to mechanic shop) I used a Canadian Tire battery charger for 9 hours, and it appeared to fully charge the existing battery.

How long could someone guess the recharged battery will run the car for?

I noticed my car ran for about 40 minutes with the battery light on ..(the only reason why I didn't pull over was because I had some sensors going on and off randomly due to some recent brake work and sea foam ...and thought maybe it would go off by itself).

I'm probably not going to attempt the alternator install myself, though I have read a lot of how to's from this site.

I'm from Alberta Canada, is $80 a good price for a Canadian shop to do the install if I provide the part?

By the way, I appreciate everyone's opinions and messages ...Thank you!

 

[wallabe]

I'm definitely going to replace it when I get the alternator replaced. Also, I think I'll just pay to have it rebuilt, then I could probably just sell it...

But to get by for now (to get from home to mechanic shop) I used a Canadian Tire battery charger for 9 hours, and it appeared to fully charge the existing battery.

1).....How long could someone guess the recharged battery will run the car for?

I noticed my car ran for about 40 minutes with the battery light on ..(the only reason why I didn't pull over was because I had some sensors going on and off randomly due to some recent brake work and sea foam ...and thought maybe it would go off by itself).

2)......I'm probably not going to attempt the alternator install myself, though I have read a lot of how to's from this site.

3).....I'm from Alberta Canada, is $80 a good price for a Canadian shop to do the install if I provide the part?

4).....By the way, I appreciate everyone's opinions and messages ...Thank you!

1)....your battery WAS still good if it lasted 40 minutes on a complete charge. Your alternator is gone buddy. So replace your battery anyway when you replace the alternator. 30 minutes to an hour on our type of batteries is a good long time to run a car with no alternator, IMO. Also if you are having CEL lights pop on and off you need to tackle that issue too, espically if you said one was due to sea foam. Done sea foam 3 times on mine and 7 on different cars and still never had a CEL. (Knocks on wood)

2).....I say go for it, makes you feel like a man's man. LOL Nothing says your a man then some scrap bloody knuckles.

3).....$80 can be used for the purchase of good ice cold delicious beer, nuff said. Get some mates over and do the install while you guys drink. Fun times. ...............Real reason is because I'm seeing alot of shops say no to that because even if you pay them to install it, they didn't supply the part and it makes it easy for you to say the part was s*** and they installed it.

4).....Your Welcome

 

[wolleymp5]

yeah just make sure that you drive the car during the day so you don't have to use the headlights, have a/c, radio, wipers, any other possible power drains off and if you can drive expressway do so that you won't be breaking much. I've driven about 10 miles with a good battery and dead alternator, but it will definitely cause some shorter lifespan to the battery. Change it before the warranty expires too. Good luck.

 

[redmang]

Finally just paid the full $120 to a shop to throw in the alternator. Spent a bunch of time waiting around for familiy and "friends of friends"...

My advice after this ordeal, pay the extra money and get a professional to do the work.

thanks for everyone's help and advice! I learned a lot.

 

[stjohans]

I'm definitely going to replace it when I get the alternator replaced. Also, I think I'll just pay to have it rebuilt, then I could probably just sell it...

But to get by for now (to get from home to mechanic shop) I used a Canadian Tire battery charger for 9 hours, and it appeared to fully charge the existing battery.

How long could someone guess the recharged battery will run the car for?

I noticed my car ran for about 40 minutes with the battery light on ..(the only reason why I didn't pull over was because I had some sensors going on and off randomly due to some recent brake work and sea foam ...and thought maybe it would go off by itself).

I'm probably not going to attempt the alternator install myself, though I have read a lot of how to's from this site.

I'm from Alberta Canada, is $80 a good price for a Canadian shop to do the install if I provide the part?

By the way, I appreciate everyone's opinions and messages ...Thank you!

From Alberta eh What part? I'm from Edmonton. It's Good to see more canadian p5 owners on here, even if they are all just piles of rust lol, I am in the process of basically re-finishing my entire car ever since i tried chipping away at some rust and ended up putting a 2" x 4" hole in my fender lol, fortunately the rest of the car wasnt nearly as bad.

 

[rick3478]

Degreaser is bad for lubricants, water is bad for electrical, and you did both to it. I wouldn't worry about the CEL light until I get the known problems fixed. Battery is probably okay, but you should have at least one of its cables disconnected while changing the alternator, so if it is 5 years old or more it might be a convenient time to update it as a matter of course.