Edmunds "Best SUVs for 2020" article

[Avoidin Deer]

Edmunds lists their best SUVs for 2020, divided into 12 categories:

X-Small; Small; Small 3-Row
Midsize; Midsize 3-Row
Large
X-Small Luxury; Small Luxury; Midsize Luxury; Midsize 3-Row Luxury; Large Luxury; Super Luxury

It's amazing. Twelve SUV categories. The displacement of passenger cars is just about complete.

The CX-3 was #5 in the X-Small category
The CX-5 was #2 in the Small category (technically tied with the CR-V for #1)
The CX-9 was #5 in the Midsize 3-Row category

Really nothing new said here. Mazda universally gets kudos for handling and style, and is dinged for relatively less cargo space.

To wit:

The CX-5 is attractively styled inside and out, a departure from rivals' rather utilitarian appearances. It's also more engaging and sporty to drive, which should appeal to those who crave more performance and a more confident on-road feel. In Edmunds' rankings, the CX-5 comes in a numerical tie with the Honda CR-V. The CR-V gains an edge for practicality but isn't as engaging or potentially as fast as the Mazda.

When you read Edmund's 2018 long-term road test of the CX-5 as it was driven by different people, 2 out of the 3 who specifically commented on the cargo space were fine with it. The worse anyone had to say was "I've always accepted the CX-5's reduced cargo capacity as a trade-off for its design, but over the holidays I nearly ran into the limits of that capacity." In other words, "I once almost used it all."

The CX-5 and the CX-9 are also listed in a different Edmund's article on The Best SUV Deals For April.

 

[Chocolate]

I saw the video comparison. Seemed like they preferred the CX-5 to the others, even though they gave the CR-V the win.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

I saw the video comparison. Seemed like they preferred the CX-5 to the others, even though they gave the CR-V the win.

I have yet to see an Edmunds review (or anyone's review) of the CX-5 that was not gushing. I used to watch them over and over when I was shopping in 2018.

I'll have to go back and watch reviews of the other Mazda SUVs and see what they have to say. I wonder if Edmunds has reviewed the CX-30 yet.

eta: Did you remove your honest opinion of why the CR-V won? LOL!!!!
Did you get a Cease & Desist order from Edmunds?

 

[Buzzman12]

I've written to Edmunds to get their take on the oil dilution problem with Hondas, but I'm assuming Honda gives them a few perks because they continually ignore the issue in their reviews, and never mention it, ever.
The response I got was that they only base their reviews on new cars, and that the reviews do not take into account any post sale problems.
Deflect deflect.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

Buzzman, you made me go back and read Edmunds' long-term road test of a 2017 CR-V from April 2017-Sept 2019. (I could find no long term road test of a later model CR-V.) They have up to 20 staff members drive the car whenever they want and gather comments from the log books...these do take into account post-sales problems. And the CR-V had a few of them.

I went through every update (published every 2-3 months) and found no mention of oil dilution or gas smell in the cabin for the CR-V they tested. I did find consistent comments showing that the CX-5 is not the only vehicle with a frustrating (buggy) infotainment system. The 2017 CR-V problems are way worse than current CX-5's.

Interestingly, I found where Edmunds staff spoke of the CX-5s as they logged their CR-V experiences. This was not a comparison test...the CX-5 references were spontaneous. Here's what was said:

“For me personally, it'd probably be a tough choice between the CR-V and the CX-5."

"No. I'd get the CX-5. It's just so much better-looking."

“And it isn't going to outhandle nimble offerings like the CX-5.”

“Our own Mazda CX-5, for example, has a much more upscale vibe inside.”

“It's also hard for me not to compare it to the CX-5, my regular ride. The CX-5 is easier to handle and maneuver on tight city streets; the CR-V feels much bigger in comparison.“

"I don't seem to like this CR-V as much as some of our other editors do. Sure, it's comfortable, has a good engine and has plenty of cargo space. But I'm not a fan of the styling, the slow and occasionally buggy infotainment system, or the hard-to-read fuel gauge. For my money, I'd rather buy the Mazda CX-5."

There was not a single reference to the CX-5 as being the second choice behind the CR-V.

For fairness, I reviewed the 2018 CX-5 Long Term Road Test and found (3) CR-V references in the testers' comments. Keep in mind this is the 2018 CX-5 NA engine compared to the CR-V turbo, and the CX-5 long term test was 12 months versus 30 months for the 2017 CR-V:

“I'd say it's quieter than the Honda CR-V and perhaps on par with some luxury crossovers.”

"Mazdas have long been the driver's choice when compared to the competition. But after spending some time in both the CX-5 and the Honda CR-V, I'm officially calling it. The Mazda is NOT the driver's choice in the compact crossover class. That honor now belongs to the CR-V. Not only is it apparent on back-to-back test drives, but the numbers on the track all favor the CR-V. It has a faster 0-60 mph time and a shorter braking distance."

“Compared to the fuel economy you can get in the Honda CR-V, which feels larger and more powerful, the Mazda CX-5 doesn't compare.”

 

[Buzzman12]

Buzzman, you made me go back and read Edmunds' long-term road test of a 2017 CR-V from April 2017-Sept 2019. (I could find no long term road test of a later model CR-V.) They have up to 20 staff members drive the car whenever they want and gather comments from the log books...these do take into account post-sales problems. And the CR-V had a few of them.

I went through every update (published every 2-3 months) and found no mention of oil dilution or gas smell in the cabin for the CR-V they tested. I did find consistent comments showing that the CX-5 is not the only vehicle with a frustrating (buggy) infotainment system. The 2017 CR-V problems are way worse than current CX-5's.

In fairness to my previous post, I was not referring to any long term tests they might have done.
I was only referring their new vehicle reviews and rankings that they publish.
My question to them was why they have never mentioned anything about the oil dilution issues with the CR-V in their rankings. (if they have mentioned it in other reviews or articles, then I apologize. I've missed it).
Long term tests and new vehicle rankings are two different things.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

Yeh, I get what you meant. But Edmunds never mentions it anywhere that I've seen. I only see it in forum comments.

Makes me wonder if Consumer Reports ever mentions it. I believe they have long-term reliability ratings that should pick up stuff like this.

 

[AuraNova]

I've seen reviews of the CR-V, and people seem to really love the car. But these are just initial first impressions. I wonder what most feel about the long term. Not to mention I remember reading that Hondas lately haven't been all that great in quality. But that could be just anecdotal for a small handful of people. What's more funny is that I see more CX-5s on the road than CR-Vs. The HR-V is killing it out there though. Lots of them on the road.

 

[Buzzman12]

Yup, I've never seen the oil dilution problem mentioned by Edmunds themselves.
However, if you read the owner comments on Edmunds for the 2017 and 2018 models, you'll see plenty of negative reviews from those owners about the oil dilution problem (and other issues).
I just find it "peculiar" that a supposedly knowledgeable site like Edmunds, even with all the owner reviews openly talking about the problem, never actually mentions it it any of their tests, reviews or articles.
Makes me wonder what Honda has on these guys.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

It was forum comments that helped me to dodge a bullet when I bought. Mazda was not on my radar screen until I read of Honda's wide-spread/manufacturer-ignored oil dilution nightmares. Before that, I was caught up in the CRV/RAV4 herd mentality when shopping for an SUV.

I don't know of any major automotive outlet really hammering Honda for this. One would have thought that issuing a major recall in China for the oil dilution issue while none was made in the states would have brought the media jackals at their heels. "Different regulatory structure" is such a weak sidestep.

 

[youri]

Different reviewers, different opinion. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a32161895/2020-compact-crossover-comparison/

The compact SUV field is so good, its really a matter of preferences and priorities.

 

[Antoine]

I was caught up in the CRV/RAV4 herd mentality when shopping for an SUV.

Thankful you saw the light and joined us here!

 

[Avoidin Deer]

Thankful you saw the light and joined us here!

Thanks, buddy.

All say it again:
-The CX-5 is such a nice car.
-I wish I had discovered the brand sooner.

 

[Buzzman12]

I don't know of any major automotive outlet really hammering Honda for this. One would have thought that issuing a major recall in China for the oil dilution issue while none was made in the states would have brought the media jackals at their heels.

And therein lies the problem.
Like you said, I have yet to see any notable automotive outlet take Honda to task on this issue.
It's a shame, not because I want to see Honda get their just rewards, but I keep thinking of the 90% of CR-V soccer mom owners out there that are blindly ignorant of the problem.
Face it, car enthusiasts don't buy CR-V's.
The average owner never checks under the hood, and only takes it in for an oil change when the maintenance monitor tells them to.
Even if you told a majority of CR-V owners about the problem, they probably wouldn't understand it or do anything about it anyway.
Honda knows this, and that's part of why they are doing what they can to ignore and suppress the problem.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

As I was car shopping, I looked to see if oil dilution was an issue with Mazdas, since the underlying cause is CDI technology.

Mazda has a TSB on the risk of oil dilution in all SKYACTIV-G engines, It gives a detailed explanation as to what causes it. If a Mazda experiences oil dilution, the CEL can come on and a code (P0172:00 ) is stored. If this "Running Too Rich" code is caused by oil dilution (there can be other things that throw this code), the fix is to change the oil. There is no option.

In addition to that TSB, I found one comment on the web from an owner who thought they had an oil dilution issue in their Mazda. I've yet to see any others.

 

[Buzzman12]

I also think about all those CR-V owners 5+ years from now, when their vehicles have piled up a few miles, and they're past their warranty period.
That's when this oil dilution problem will more than likely start to show up as a real problem.
Imagine then that they go to their Honda dealer with a bad engine, only to be told it's out of warranty.
Anyone here think that Honda will step up to the plate and offer goodwill extended warranties?

As I've mentioned a few times on here, I was a Nissan guy 10-15 years ago.
I wouldn't buy one today, but to their credit they have stepped up to the plate on more than one occasion to offer free repairs or compensation for issues that showed up on some of their vehicles as old as 20 years.
1996-2004 Pathfinders have a serious rust issue in the front strut towers than can cause a catastrophic front end collapse without notice. Very dangerous.
They initiated a recall on all models, and if it was deemed irreparable, they would offer a buy back at market value.
They have also done similar extended warranties on other older vehicles with known problems.
Makes me wonder if Honda has the Corporate will and courage to do the same with the 1.5l turbo engine with the oil dilution problems.
Time will tell.

 

[Avoidin Deer]

I also think about all those CR-V owners 5+ years from now, when their vehicles have piled up a few miles, and they're past their warranty period.

You got that right.

Honda has extended the warranty to 6 Years/Unlimited Mileage, but only on SOME engine components: camshaft, rocker-arm assemblies, and spark plugs.

As I read that Consumer Reports article I linked above, I'm now reminded that Honda offered a software update...at first to 5 frigid states, then to 21 cold states, and finally to all 50 states.

This article says it best:

Honda is asking drivers to limit extended idling, use a block heater, drive in lower gears at the start of trips, and drive for longer trips to help the engine warm up.

Because when life gives you lemons, blame the sourness on someone else.

 

[Buzzman12]

Honda has extended the warranty to 6 Years/Unlimited Mileage, but only on SOME engine components: camshaft, rocker-arm assemblies, and spark plugs.

As I read that Consumer Reports article I linked above, I'm now reminded that Honda offered a software update...at first to 5 frigid states, then to 21 cold states, and finally to all 50 states.

OK, in all fairness to Honda, I was not aware of the extended warranty on those engine components you mention. Better than nothing I guess.

I was aware of Honda telling owners how to drive though.
I love how Honda puts the onus on owners to change their driving habits to minimize a problem with THEIR design.
Avoid short trips they say.
OK, so if I own one of these things and I need to go to the corner store a mile away for a loaf of bread, I'm supposed to drive 20 miles around the neighbourhood first? Will Honda fill my gas tank?
Talk about shifting the responsibility to the driver. Not impressed.

I'm glad I didn't buy one of those things 3 years ago when I was shopping around.

 

[Mazdiod2]

I think it's a shame that after reaching an era of 200,000mi reliability we seem to be going backwards.

 

[Buzzman12]

I think it's a shame that after reaching an era of 200,000mi reliability we seem to be going backwards.

That opens up a can of worms, but yea, I agree.

New technology designed to increase gas mileage to satisfy tougher government targets, then finding out the new tech is flawed, plus the never ending Corporate dollar squeeze to make things as cheap as possible to maximize profits and thus satisfy share holders.
It's not about making the best car anymore, unfortunately.