CX-5 Active Safety Features - Lane-Keep Assist help

[andreyco]

With various manufacturers using different words to describe the same features, it's pretty difficult to know what you're getting based on the name alone. I'm a relatively new CX-5 owner, but I also own a Honda Odyssey. I noticed that the CX-5's "lane keep assist" system is nothing like Honda's "lane keep assist" system. I'm hoping some of you experts can help clarify these systems to set my expectations correctly for how much assistance the CX-5 is able to provide.

From Mazda's website:
When traveling at 37 mph or higher, the Lane Departure Warning System gives you a combination of audible and visual warnings when it detects that you are about to unintentionally depart from your lane. And with Lane-keep Assist, minor steering corrections are made to help keep your vehicle in its lane.

From Honda's website:
Lane Departure Warning (LDW) - Alerts you when you are crossing the lines that mark your traffic lanes. (They may have stoped using this terminology since 2018 when I purchased my Odyssey and now roll this into the RDM system below).
Road Departure Mitigation System (RDM) - RDM can determine if you cross over detected lanes without signaling, can provide steering assistance to help return to your lane or provide braking to help you keep from leaving the roadway entirely.
Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS) - With your hands on the steering wheel, long highway drives are easier with LKAS, which subtly adjust steering to help keep the vehicle centered in a detected lane.

Based on my experience and these definitions, Mazda's Lane-keep assist system is more like Honda's Road Departure Mitigation System. That is, if you cross over a detected lane, it will attempt to pull your car back into your lane.

Experts, please confirm the following: Mazda's Lane-keep assist system does not engage until you're crossing over a lane. It does not help keep the vehicle centered in its lane.

 

[sm1ke]

Based on my experience and these definitions, Mazda's Lane-keep assist system is more like Honda's Road Departure Mitigation System. That is, if you cross over a detected lane, it will attempt to pull your car back into your lane.

Experts, please confirm the following: Mazda's Lane-keep assist system does not engage until you're crossing over a lane. It does not help keep the vehicle centered in its lane.

This is correct. At least in some markets, Mazda's Lane Keep Assist is just like Honda's RDM (but Mazda doesn't apply braking and is less aggressive with the steering feedback). In some other markets, lane centering from Mazda is available. They call it Lane Trace:

MAZDA: LAS | Active Safety Technology

LAS（Lane Keep Assist System）. With the aim of achieving an accident-free automotive society, Mazda is advancing safety initiatives in three areas; vehicles, people, and roads and infrastructure. [MAZDA Official Web Site]

www.mazda.com

This feature doesn't exist on US or Canadian cars (yet).

 

[181962]

This is correct. At least in NA markets, Mazda's Lane Keep Assist is just like Honda's RDM (but Mazda doesn't apply braking and is less aggressive with the steering feedback). In some markets, lane centering from Mazda is available. They call it Lane Trace:

MAZDA: LAS | Active Safety Technology

LAS（Lane Keep Assist System）. With the aim of achieving an accident-free automotive society, Mazda is advancing safety initiatives in three areas; vehicles, people, and roads and infrastructure. [MAZDA Official Web Site]

www.mazda.com

This feature doesn't exist on NA cars (yet).

Agreed, except it may be available in Mexico. As I noted in another thread, Mazda Mexico's web site has a description that seems to indicate lane centering is available accompanied by an illustration that seems to indicate it works through added cameras pointed longitudinally from the sides of the vehicle, something we do not have in the US. Perhaps the 2021 manual has one of those asterisks saying "if available" but I'm not interested enough to look that up.

 

[cz5gt]

There is a theory that the system is there but its disabled in NA. Its basically additional menu in the infotainment, specific electrical steering rack and programming, etc.

 

[sm1ke]

There is a theory that the system is there but its disabled in NA. Its basically additional menu in the infotainment, specific electrical steering rack and programming, etc.

We had one user looking into enabling the feature via Forscan, but so far he has been unsuccessful.

 

[181962]

There is a theory that the system is there but its disabled in NA. Its basically additional menu in the infotainment, specific electrical steering rack and programming, etc.

We had one user looking into enabling the feature via Forscan, but so far he has been unsuccessful.

I participated in that discussion by citing this from Mazda Mexico:

Conoce la tecnología de seguridad avanzada i-ACTIVSENSE de Mazda

Conoce más sobre la tecnología i-Activsense de Mazda, que te protege de los peligros en tu camino por medio de cámaras y sensores.

www.mazda.mx

Scroll down a bit and click on "SISTEMA DE MONITOREO DE MANTENIMIENTO DE CARRIL". That translates to "Lane Maintenance Monitoring System". The description translates to:

"It uses sensors and a front camera to identify the lines that delimit each lane. If the system detects that the car is off-center, the driver will feel a slight adjustment in steering to keep the vehicle toward the center of the lane."

That sure sounds like lane centering. Note the picture with waves emanating from right about where the front door handles happen to be. This suggests the possibility that lane centering is accomplished in Mexico with added "sensors" in the side of the vehicle which would explain why attempts to hack the US software have not met with success. Our US lane keeping (not centering) is accomplished with the front facing camera only--no "sensor" or camera hardware in the side of the vehicle.

The head scratcher is the Mexico use of the term "sensor". If Mexico has added hardware in the side of the car it would have to be cameras to "see" the lines just as the front-facing camera is used for lane keeping. Maybe something got lost in translation or marketing did not quite understand it.

This amounts to conjecture with some supporting evidence. The other question that is begged is why just Mexico in North America whether it requires additional hardware or not.

 

[181962]

So, I went ahead and looked at the 2021 manual at Mazda.com. It's still a NA manual with maintenance schedules for US, Canada, PR and Mexico. Oddly, the index in the manual makes no mention of "Lane Maintenance Monitoring System", "Lane Trace", or anything else that looks to me like lane centering despite what the Mazda Mexico web site shows.

That's another head scratcher. Maybe that lane centering function I cited from the Mazda Mexico site is merely a marketing aspiration, LOL.

I think we need a Mexican owner to tell us if he has it and if he's figured out whether there truly are additional "sensors" in the sides.

 

[andreyco]

Thank you for all of the valuable input! I'm only slightly disappointed in myself because I assumed that by now all the various car manufacturers had figured out how to do this right. While Mazda is behind on this tech (lane centering), I can understand leaving more control in the driver's hands as part of their philosophy.

 

[DaveGalley]

"This feature doesn't exist on US or Canadian cars (yet)."

The question's probably... when?

 

[181962]

The question's probably... when?

Probably soon. Mazda appears to be taking the traditionally Toyota/Lexus tack, maybe a step further, lagging behind other automakers introducing new gadgety. Let the other guys (particularly the Germans and increasingly Kia and Genesis) work out the kinks first in order to maintain overall reliability. And the more something is adopted the cost of putting it in the car will go down.

There's always something new-new and the latest Consumer Reports outlines some of that gadgetry, some of which is available in one form or another in certain makers' models:

1) Augmented reality heads up display: Key features are 3D holographic images with the display moving across the windshield to track one's eyes.

2) "Dooring" sensors: Warnings not to open the doors when parallel parked so not to whack a bicyclist or oncoming car.

3) Pedestrian thermal detection: A purported upgrade over current camera systems that are unreliable in low light.

4) Rear seat motion detectors: These systems are designed to detect the smallest movement in the back seat to prevent locking a kid or pet in the car.

5) Adaptive driving beam technology (not yet approved in the US): Designed to nearly double illumination without increasing glare for an on-coming driver. This is not yet approved in the US. This happens to be my personal favorite if it consistently works. Some systems will also shine a spotlight on pedestrians (who might think they are about to be detained by the police, LOL.)

CR recommends automakers be mandated to include the following (they have a pretty good track record with that eventually). Some models have some of these features that CR would like to see universal:

1) Headlights go on automatically when the wipers are on.

2) Automatically shift a vehicle in gear into park when then the engine is turned off to prevent rollaway.

3) Automatically shut off the engine if it idles too long, the idea being to prevent CO accumulation in a closed garage.

4) Better adjustability of seat belts.

5) Better tire inflation warnings.

6) Bigger visors, such an extra one behind the rearview mirror. I'm not sure how the rear view mirror thing thing would work but evidently a Range Rover has it. It would be another favorite of mine.

These are all safety measures, traditionally a CR primary concern. We're reaching a point where the risks being protected get smaller and smaller.

More new gadgetry unrelated to safety are sure to come down the line. On a certain Tesla model, if you push certain touch screen controls in a certain order it will flip the doors up and down, flash the lights on and off, and play a Christmas carol. I can't wait (rolling eyes).

 

[PaulZooms]

Thank you for all of the valuable input! I'm only slightly disappointed in myself because I assumed that by now all the various car manufacturers had figured out how to do this right. While Mazda is behind on this tech (lane centering), I can understand leaving more control in the driver's hands as part of their philosophy.

Lack of lane centering is a deal breaker for me. It is a killer feature for long road trips. I sure hope it’s on the CX-50!

As for ‘more control’, a button to turn it off satisfies that requirement without denying lane centering to those who want it.

 

[Buzzman12]

Lack of lane centering is a deal breaker for me. It is a killer feature for long road trips. I sure hope it’s on the CX-50!

As for ‘more control’, a button to turn it off satisfies that requirement without denying lane centering to those who want it.

My first reaction was, wow. If this stops you from buying a car, then maybe you should be looking for a self driving vehicle, or a Tesla.
I mean, the last time I looked, my car came equipped with a lane centering device. It's called a steering wheel.
Whatever happened to actually driving a car, and maybe staying awake and alert behind the wheel?

 

[181962]

My first reaction was, wow. If this stops you from buying a car, then maybe you should be looking for a self driving vehicle, or a Tesla.
I mean, the last time I looked, my car came equipped with a lane centering device. It's called a steering wheel.
Whatever happened to actually driving a car, and maybe staying awake and alert behind the wheel?

Yeah, I kinda agree with that but not quite so extreme. If eyes are on the road, distractions kept to a minimum, and one is alert and prepared to take defensive measures if necessary, fatigue reduction from lane centering is pretty minimal.

I would not advise taking a purported "self-driving" car at it's word. There are enough dead Tesla drivers who would attest, if they could, that the vehicle did something no alert driver would have done. If you rely on lane centering to save you if you nod off you could be sorely mistaken. Drive enough miles asleep at the wheel or reading a book or applying makeup or futzing with your phone while relying on "self-driving" and something illogical and bad will happen. The best thing you can say is if you're going to do those things regardless the odds of something bad happening are probably reduced if turn over control to the vehicle.

Musk's argument is that while sh*t sometimes happen, net-net his "self-driving" cars reduce accidents. Even if that were true, which is suspect, it is only because there are a sufficient number of bad drivers on the road who don't pay attention and do incredibly dumb stuff all all on their own. If you are not one of those drivers then view those systems only as a backstop. Even a responsible driver can make a mistake, then the systems might save him.

 

[jefferson88]

My first reaction was, wow. If this stops you from buying a car, then maybe you should be looking for a self driving vehicle, or a Tesla.
I mean, the last time I looked, my car came equipped with a lane centering device. It's called a steering wheel.
Whatever happened to actually driving a car, and maybe staying awake and alert behind the wheel?

Not having lane keep assist is also a deal breaker for me, which is why I chose the MDX over the CX-9 as my road trip vehicle (also have a CX-5 in the garage too).
I drive between 25-35k miles a year with monthly long distance trips from CA to TX. When driving 14+ hours a day, not having to constantly correct for crosswinds makes the journey significantly less fatiguing, keeping me more awake and alert throughout the entire day.

 

[PaulZooms]

My first reaction was, wow. If this stops you from buying a car, then maybe you should be looking for a self driving vehicle, or a Tesla.
I mean, the last time I looked, my car came equipped with a lane centering device. It's called a steering wheel.
Whatever happened to actually driving a car, and maybe staying awake and alert behind the wheel?

On a long drive, I’m looking to reduce fatigue the the lowest level possible. On a twisty road, I’m looking for sharp driving dynamics. Is there something wrong with wanting both in the same vehicle?

Mazda is the only major manufacturer that doesn’t offer lane centering. Time to remedy that to give us the choice for ourselves.

If you want to spend 12 hours constantly adjusting your lane position, good for you. I would like to have the choice of active and passive driving. I’m sure I’ll enjoy a self-driving car when it’s available. Until then, I’ll demand a full suite of assistance technologies.

 

[PaulZooms]

Yeah, I kinda agree with that but not quite so extreme. If eyes are on the road, distractions kept to a minimum, and one is alert and prepared to take defensive measures if necessary, fatigue reduction from lane centering is pretty minimal…

If you rely on lane centering to save you if you nod off you could be sorely mistaken…

I disagree. On a long drive, constantly adjusting to center your car takes effort and attention, and reduces your capacity to observe what else is going on around you. You only have so much attention, and I’d rather save mine for defensive driving rather than rote steering.

Who said anything about sleeping at the wheel? Certainly not something I’d contemplate. I’ll let others defend Elon Musk.

I’m just talking about lane centering, the subject of this thread, something every major automaker offers OTHER THAN MAZDA!

 

[181962]

I disagree. On a long drive, constantly adjusting to center your car takes effort and attention, and reduces your capacity to observe what else is going on around you. You only have so much attention, and I’d rather save mine for defensive driving rather than rote steering.

Who said anything about sleeping at the wheel? Certainly not something I’d contemplate. I’ll let others defend Elon Musk.

I’m just talking about lane centering, the subject of this thread, somet you hing every major automaker offers OTHER THAN MAZDA!

The Tesla reference is in answer to Buzzman.

You mentioned lane centering offering you "passive driving." That would be a mistake.

 

[PaulZooms]

The Tesla reference is in answer to Buzzman.

You mentioned lane centering offering you "passive driving." That would be a mistake.

Passive not equal to Inattentive

I am constantly scanning forward and rearward for other vehicles and hazards.
Passive, but ready to react. Just want to not have to also tweak steering constantly.

 

[DaveGalley]

There's always something new-new and the latest Consumer Reports outlines some of that gadgetry, some of which is available in one form or another in certain makers' models

I didn't even know it was that comprehensive. Thank you for the list. Crossing my fingers that it will arrive sooner.

 

[Mazdiod2]

6) Bigger visors, such an extra one behind the rearview mirror. I'm not sure how the rear view mirror thing thing would work but evidently a Range Rover has it. It would be another favorite of mine.

I had a Saturn with visors that had a sliding extension that helped block the sun behind the mirror. It could also be helpful when used to the side if necessary.