Like most modern cars my 2016 CX5 has always started quickly after cranking no more than a couple of seconds or so. However twice lately it has cranked several seconds before starting. Not a long time but noticeably longer than usual. Long enough to get your attention. Then it started and runs fine. It has 130,000 miles on it. Wondering if it needs some maintenance that I haven't done or if something is on the verge of failing. Has anyone experienced this change in behavior on their Maxda?
Cranking Time
- Thread starter JR66
- Start date
HyFlyer
2019 CX5 sig 2.2 diesel / 2016.5 CX5 touring 2.5na
- :
- Southwest Ohio
Maybe a fueling issue? Like a fuel filter getting plugged up. I wonder if you turn it on (two presses of the start button with no foot on the brake) and light up all the dash warning lights etc and wait a few seconds for the fuel pump to pressurized Every thing if it'll start right up like before.
CarpeDiem
Under Pressure
- :
- Superstitions
- :
- 2021 CE Turbo
Checking battery voltage is almost worthless. Even a bad battery can have decent resting voltage - what matters is the voltage under load. The OP can have the battery load tested for free at bigger auto parts stores like Autozone to determine if it is good or not. The age of a battery is not an indicator of battery condition.
- :
- Canada
I was also going to suggest spark plugs, though I don't know if it would solve the issue. My 2018 is due for a spark plug change, and since January I've noticed that the engine sometimes takes an extra second or two to start. Usually if the battery is the issue, the engine cranks slower - mine cranks normally, plus I have a new battery installed.
- :
- 2022 CX-5 Turbo
Checking voltage is just to see if there is any bad cell. Each cell should have about 2.1v.
If there is a bad cell, the voltage should come out to be around 10.5v instead of 12.6v.
You are correct about weak cell.
Weak cell has high internal resistance. Voltage remains similar. Hard to tell from checking voltage.
Only under load (small external resistance) the voltage drops more significantly. A good battery cell should have low internal resistance (i.e. high driving strength).
- :
- 2023 CX-5 2.5 Turbo AWD Auto
RIP 8/23:2013 CX-5 Sport FWD Auto 120k
I’ll have to ask my coworker how their experience is going. They have a Ford SUV with about 120,000 miles, ‘16 or ‘17 that is now taking consistently longer to start. He was thinking it might be a fuel filter or fuel pump issue. The indy shop they brought it to thought purging the fuel line should do the trick, but I’m not sure if that resolved it.
- :
- Mazda
Based on reading your first post it is not suggested battery or primary electrical system i.e. connection grounds and power leads as the problem.
At your mileage it could be a grocery list of possibilities. This would require a more detailed Q&A to narrow it down a bit.
Without knowing even your area and the type of gas I would do the easy test that will not affect in a negative way should nothing change. Lower you fuel tank down to at least 1/4 1/8 would better then fill to 3/4 with the 91 or 93 octane whichever is available in your area. Then add a "TRUE" octane booster like Octane 104 even STP you could even use a pint of 100% Xylene. If after yo do this and your starting cycle increases, then you know it is the gas quality currently available in your area. This fuel method will also have a side benefit of starting to clean your fuel delivery parts. If no change then you can look at other parts like spark plugs and even the coils if they are original. As coils age the resistance become higher and the raise time between spark becomes longer effecting a multitude of engine performance .
At your mileage it could be a grocery list of possibilities. This would require a more detailed Q&A to narrow it down a bit.
Without knowing even your area and the type of gas I would do the easy test that will not affect in a negative way should nothing change. Lower you fuel tank down to at least 1/4 1/8 would better then fill to 3/4 with the 91 or 93 octane whichever is available in your area. Then add a "TRUE" octane booster like Octane 104 even STP you could even use a pint of 100% Xylene. If after yo do this and your starting cycle increases, then you know it is the gas quality currently available in your area. This fuel method will also have a side benefit of starting to clean your fuel delivery parts. If no change then you can look at other parts like spark plugs and even the coils if they are original. As coils age the resistance become higher and the raise time between spark becomes longer effecting a multitude of engine performance .
- :
- '17 CX-5 Select
I'd start with a scan tool that can read the high pressure pump pressure. Long crank times are fairly often caused by a leaking pump check valve. The fuel line pressure leaks down and it takes a few extra seconds to build it back up.
If the actual high pressure is a lot (20% or more) lower than commanded during the first part of the crank, then you know where to focus.
The car has a two pumps; low pressure in the tank, which feeds the high pressure pump driven off the the exhaust cam. As there is no pressure sensor for the tank pump (that I am aware of), you'd need to insert a pressure gauge or sensor in the low pressure line to measure. Nominally 65 psi at idle, I think. There is a quick disconnect at the low pressure fuel line, just before the high pressure pump under the hood. If that pressure comes up fast during cranking, is nominal and holds for at least 30 min after the engine is shutoff, then the pressure fault is on the high pressure pump side--you can measure than with the scan tool.
If the actual high pressure is a lot (20% or more) lower than commanded during the first part of the crank, then you know where to focus.
The car has a two pumps; low pressure in the tank, which feeds the high pressure pump driven off the the exhaust cam. As there is no pressure sensor for the tank pump (that I am aware of), you'd need to insert a pressure gauge or sensor in the low pressure line to measure. Nominally 65 psi at idle, I think. There is a quick disconnect at the low pressure fuel line, just before the high pressure pump under the hood. If that pressure comes up fast during cranking, is nominal and holds for at least 30 min after the engine is shutoff, then the pressure fault is on the high pressure pump side--you can measure than with the scan tool.
Lots of interesting inputs to my original post. Thanks to all, especially for the info on the fuel pumps which I didn't know about. So far the extra cranking time only occurred twice and not again recently so I'm going to wait for now and see if it happens again. If so I now have several things to check.
- :
- Mazda
While this is good suggestion but for the average DIY it is a bit of first learning what values need to be looked at and understanding them . I might add it is also not close to the top diagnostic tree of problem solving with what the OP is experiencing?
I try to think about getting more information and the first on the list is knowing what gas is being used and in which part of the world. I say this because again while your suggestion for you as an experienced DIY(or more) is good the OP has not expressed any other drivability issues regarding the engine running after it is started.
- :
- '17 CX-5 Select
If a DIY can't troubleshoot what I suggested, they SHOULD take it somewhere, rather than spend many hundreds in parts and hours in labor, to no avail.
This has *nothing* to do with fuel type/octane and entirely why a modern engine would crank for longer than usual before catching. Very high on the list are unpressurized fuel rails and the other is a weak crank signal. The list grows more complex after that.
A leaking check valve wouldn't impact drivability---only starting.
As for whether with an auto transmission , the CX-5 pump runs briefly if you press the start button twice without stepping on the brake, and then stepping on the brake to start, I don't know. For an older vehicle, turning the key on-off-on then cranking is a way to evaluate whether a pump is allowing the fuel line to leak down after being shutoff for a while.
- :
- Mazda
AVC you did read that the problem has not returned.
I said your advise was ok but not really what I or others IMO that do this for a living would have started with. For me I need to listen or in this case read and interpret from the very limited information what someone is trying to convey to me and other members what the problem is. Without a test drive and trying diagnosing on a forum is challenging at best. So when I respond to what I think is a member that has far less skills then me or limited diagnostic equipment or tools to use the easy simple tests tend to be a better response . IMHO you went for the worst possible problem and difficultly level for most DIY and use a good procedure to diagnosis a problem.
Octane, the type of fuel formulas used at different times of the year in some area's where they are distributed has a lot to do with like problems as the op described.
... when the formula changes here in my state ( Oxygenated ) it DOES effect starting of engines and we get lots of customers with starting concerns which tend to go away with the next season and the formula changes again.
The ECU may also change operating perimeters if even for a short term to compensate for the change in the fuel formula used.
We have graphed specific changes in fueling ,timing knock values and temperature values when the introduction of some fuel formulas from different suppliers, distributors based on information about what the formulas are. However not all suppliers are willing and are not required to give the formulas out and some feel they are special enough to call them proprietary. Oxygenated fuel seems to have the most noticeable effect on the ECU calibration when used in an engine even like a MAZDA Skyactiv NA or Turbocharged model. When these changes first occur it is not unordinary to see a slightly longer duration of starting basically because of the fueling during cold starts when the ECU cold start operating calibrations is Open Loop for the Ho2 's . Even after the ECU registers a Ho2 to change closed loop after 1-5 minutes from cold start the gasoline formula's may still effect how the engine runs for a brief time until all temperature reach normal operation. Generally this is when the coolant temperatures' reach 129.9F. The ECU again makes changes in what should be the normal operation for the rest of the drive period. Another factor of influence regarding starting and normal engine operations is EGTs but not all ECUs are calibrated for specific sensor's monitoring EGT values.
I said your advise was ok but not really what I or others IMO that do this for a living would have started with. For me I need to listen or in this case read and interpret from the very limited information what someone is trying to convey to me and other members what the problem is. Without a test drive and trying diagnosing on a forum is challenging at best. So when I respond to what I think is a member that has far less skills then me or limited diagnostic equipment or tools to use the easy simple tests tend to be a better response . IMHO you went for the worst possible problem and difficultly level for most DIY and use a good procedure to diagnosis a problem.
Octane, the type of fuel formulas used at different times of the year in some area's where they are distributed has a lot to do with like problems as the op described.
... when the formula changes here in my state ( Oxygenated ) it DOES effect starting of engines and we get lots of customers with starting concerns which tend to go away with the next season and the formula changes again.
The ECU may also change operating perimeters if even for a short term to compensate for the change in the fuel formula used.
We have graphed specific changes in fueling ,timing knock values and temperature values when the introduction of some fuel formulas from different suppliers, distributors based on information about what the formulas are. However not all suppliers are willing and are not required to give the formulas out and some feel they are special enough to call them proprietary. Oxygenated fuel seems to have the most noticeable effect on the ECU calibration when used in an engine even like a MAZDA Skyactiv NA or Turbocharged model. When these changes first occur it is not unordinary to see a slightly longer duration of starting basically because of the fueling during cold starts when the ECU cold start operating calibrations is Open Loop for the Ho2 's . Even after the ECU registers a Ho2 to change closed loop after 1-5 minutes from cold start the gasoline formula's may still effect how the engine runs for a brief time until all temperature reach normal operation. Generally this is when the coolant temperatures' reach 129.9F. The ECU again makes changes in what should be the normal operation for the rest of the drive period. Another factor of influence regarding starting and normal engine operations is EGTs but not all ECUs are calibrated for specific sensor's monitoring EGT values.
Last edited:
- :
- '17 CX-5 Select
eh, all that likely has nothing to do with his (possibly occasional) extended cranking times--but specific fuels for sure nuance *drivability*, as you expertly indicate.
I stand by my thoughts on *reasonable* cause, whether the OP has experienced temporary relief from symptoms, or they return with more frequency. It is reasonable logic to assume that at 130k miles, the Mazda has seen hundreds of tanks of gas from a variety of sources, and if the long cranking is a recent (albeit intermittent) occurrence, that at 130k, it just might be a tired pump check valve, or a tired pump(s) that sometimes don't build pressure quickly. It's a very common malady on higher mileage vehicles and especially GDI because the fuel line and fuel rail have to be independently pressurized for it to start and run.
An average DIY can obtain for under $80 a commercial scan tool that would allow them to read Mazda-specific parameters. Heck, for a $20 scan module and a copy of ForScan, you can read high side fuel pressure and monitor whether it takes a few seconds to build during cranking. And if it did, of course, the actual specific diagnosis of WHAT is causing the pressure anomaly is more complicated and maybe most of those on this forum should leave that part to a Pro.
I'm always a proponent of measuring/trying the free or near free things, first.
I stand by my thoughts on *reasonable* cause, whether the OP has experienced temporary relief from symptoms, or they return with more frequency. It is reasonable logic to assume that at 130k miles, the Mazda has seen hundreds of tanks of gas from a variety of sources, and if the long cranking is a recent (albeit intermittent) occurrence, that at 130k, it just might be a tired pump check valve, or a tired pump(s) that sometimes don't build pressure quickly. It's a very common malady on higher mileage vehicles and especially GDI because the fuel line and fuel rail have to be independently pressurized for it to start and run.
An average DIY can obtain for under $80 a commercial scan tool that would allow them to read Mazda-specific parameters. Heck, for a $20 scan module and a copy of ForScan, you can read high side fuel pressure and monitor whether it takes a few seconds to build during cranking. And if it did, of course, the actual specific diagnosis of WHAT is causing the pressure anomaly is more complicated and maybe most of those on this forum should leave that part to a Pro.
I'm always a proponent of measuring/trying the free or near free things, first.
- :
- '17 CX-5 Select
Last edited:
- :
- Mazda
NO. I am not a vendor on this forum see: Sponsor Application Forms
... and the information collected from direct research and testing and what seems like endless time spent data logging is for a company I help in developing a platform specific EFI/ECU Performance Calibrating staged tunes for. I can say that many offer on various platforms custom performance ECU tunes on various platforms for E85 and also state used oxygenated fuel for their customers living in States that participate in the Oxygenated Gasoline Program. Nuff said!
If you also do further research, you can find some formulas and more definition of what is and who uses these types of formulated fuels. Thier formulas % alone if you know basic chemistry would at least theorize that many ECUs would and does have difficulties making all the necessary adjustments to completely run an engine without some negative attributes. Perhaps even a longer then normal cold start cranking time .
If you are really interested, I can suggest that you look for one of several OBDII(not a blue tooth ) direct port access tool with a data logging program that you can select specific PIDs in the ECU and log them. This way you can test samples of your local fuel from different suppliers and see in real time what changes and adjustments the ECU does. Pay close attention to the timing and knock values.
And this is about all I am going to say about this....
... and the information collected from direct research and testing and what seems like endless time spent data logging is for a company I help in developing a platform specific EFI/ECU Performance Calibrating staged tunes for. I can say that many offer on various platforms custom performance ECU tunes on various platforms for E85 and also state used oxygenated fuel for their customers living in States that participate in the Oxygenated Gasoline Program. Nuff said!
If you also do further research, you can find some formulas and more definition of what is and who uses these types of formulated fuels. Thier formulas % alone if you know basic chemistry would at least theorize that many ECUs would and does have difficulties making all the necessary adjustments to completely run an engine without some negative attributes. Perhaps even a longer then normal cold start cranking time .
If you are really interested, I can suggest that you look for one of several OBDII(not a blue tooth ) direct port access tool with a data logging program that you can select specific PIDs in the ECU and log them. This way you can test samples of your local fuel from different suppliers and see in real time what changes and adjustments the ECU does. Pay close attention to the timing and knock values.
And this is about all I am going to say about this....
Last edited:
