COBB Catted Downpipe safe without tuning?

Talon2nr

Member
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2008 MazdaSpeed3
Ok so ive done some research on this and i dont know if their is even a clear cut answer. I want to get the catted Cobb downpipe but I dont want to wait until i get the accessport before i can install it. I want to know if i can install the downpipe and drive the car safely without causing any issues. I know ideally you would want the downpipe and also the accessport with the sg1 tune but i just can buy everything at once. I have just heard of the overboosting on catless downpipes and im wondering if it is as much of an issue on a catted DP. I do have a boost gauge so i can monitor boost levels but I know if i install the DP i wont baby the car.

- Only other mods are Cobb SRI and Boost Gauge
 
You can install a downpipe with or without an AccessPort. The only difference is that with an AP you'll maximize your gains with tuning.
 
OK, just had a couple people say dont install it unless you can tune for it so i wanted to be sure
 
OP: This is a bit more complex than it might seem. You have a gen 1 MS3. I do too. I installed a 3 inch fully catless dp/rp on my car three years ago and ran the car untuned until I added Hypertech tuning about 6 months or so ago. But, and this is a big BUT, I was monitoring. You must monitor, IMHO, if you are going to do this. Some things you need to know are, at a minimum your boost under all driving conditions (glad you have a boost gauge - that's a good start) and the rail fuel pressure from your cam driven high pressure fuel pump. And you really need to know what your AFR's are and what your wastegate is doing.

The stock DP and the two low flow cats on the stock setup are incredibly restrictive. A good aftermarket downpipe and racepipe, either catted or catless is going to increase flow-through to the extent that you will probably have about 2 psi higher boost. This is good, and it is bad. Good because you get more power, especially a hugh amount of midrange power. It is bad because it put a huge demand on your already marginal fuel pump and is also likely to produce some pretty nasty boost spikes at WOT in the 3,000-4000 rpm range. Those can be dangerous.

My stock fuel pump was adequate. You must have fuel pressure of at least 1500 psi, preferably 1600 or higher, especially when this engine is under its maximul load conditions which occur not at high rpm at WOT, but rather at around 4,000 rpm WOT.

While my pump was adequate, those spikes bothered me. I tried not to go WOT unless I was closer to 4,000 rpm and even then was not happy with what I was seeing. AFR's were staying fine and super rich at high load and high rpm conditions, so that was good.

I also decided to run one step colder plugs with that setup, as the increased boost and performance was putting me on the borderline to run stock plugs.

Now, fast forward to the HT tune upgrade. You really should have some sort of tune to be completely safe. A tune with HT, AP, Versatune, SB or any of the options will optimize you for this mod. HT tune eliminated those nasty boost spikes while raising load limit sensibly and extending boost farther out toward redline. I won't go into the other benefits of conservative tuning, as it is beyond the scope of your original post.

More recently, I began to notice that fuel rail pressure under load was trending downward, falling into the 1400's and finally one datalog showing only 1100 psi under max load. The pump was wearing out and it was only marginal for the increased flow to begin with.

This is my long winded "witness" to you that from my own experience, even with monitoring, I think it was a mistake to go with the downpipe and racepipe without first upgrading the fuel pump and without soon adding a tune to deal with those spikes. If I had it to do over again I'd go with the fuel pump upgrade first. You'll need it. And I'd plan to tune and do it soon. HT works well for this purpose.

Whatever you do, if you are planning on adding a big downpipe/racepipe, catted or catless and are not monitoring, you are doing the modding equivalent of practicing unsafe sex. You gotta know what your engine is doing if you power mod beyond a simple intake.
 
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I have a CS racepipe and I never fall below the mid-1600's. If I'm even anywhere NEAR boost it's 1500-1600.

Also, I haven't seen an increase in boost at all.
 
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^ You probably will not see an increase in boost or much extra demand for fuel with just a racepipe alone. You still have a stock diameter downpipe with a wickedly restrictive flat sharp right angle bend into a low flow cat all in front of that racepipe.
 
so it would be more beneficial to get an upgraded fuel pump rather then tuning for the intake and exhaust mod?
 
Both are what you would need. I mean fuel pump you may not need but you might as well replace it with a downpipe and other mods, because it probably wont be able to keep up. Now the tune will be needed, you will have boost spikes and fuel trims will be off.
 
Given my experience and the datalogs I've seen on my car and others, I'd say that the prudent thing to do is to upgrade the fuel pump before either a downpipe or a tune. A tune is not going to help with fuel pressure -- it will increase fuel demand. So will the downpipe. That combo was potentially if not actually dangerous for me and I was lucky, only because I was monitoring.

But, you must monitor before any of this. Let me be clear, if I was not already. You need to monitor several important engine parameters if you are going to mod this engine beyond simple intake. You can do that with Dash Hawk, with any one of a number of small Android, iPhone or handheld device based apps connected to your OBD-II port with the proper interface. You can do it with Cobb's Access Port (which is also a tuning option) or you can use higher level professional grade laptop type software, among which is ScanXL Pro with Mazda specific programming, which is my current choice. There are a lot of monitoring options, but you really need to use one of them if you are considering more mods.

Next, AFTER having a monitoring solution, then upgrade the fuel pump. The upgrade is not only to increase or maintain pressure under high load. The upgraded pumps and internals have larger diameter piston/cylinder inside the pump. That allows for not only more pressure but more volume per piston stroke. Then, WITH MONITORING, you will be ready for the downpipe, either catted or catless and ready to take maximum advantage of your tuning choice.

Just one point of view. Don't mod blind. Monitor. Then mod with confidence in knowing what your mods are doing and that you are safe.
 
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