cheap, effective TMIC?

[jheer]

Experienced ones - what is the best cheap, but effective TMIC?

 

[magicka]

A used ETS. LOL.

It depends on your goals. I think your options are:

1) CorkSport for $399 w/o a shroud, $459 with. It'll work with the OEM shroud.
2) CP-e for $399 from Edge Autosport
3) ETS for $565 from Edge

If you're staying stock turbo, any of them will be fine. I think the CP-e is the best bang for the buck. Some experimentation on another forum showed that the ETS performed the best, followed by the CP-e and then CorkSport, IIRC, but the asking price is too steep. I've got a CP-e that I bought used, and at $399 I'd consider a new one, but any more than that and you're getting into FMIC territory. Edge will sell you an ATP piping kit for $500 or a COBB kit for $600, and you can get a Treadstone TR6 or TR8 for $250.

 

[jheer]

Excellent. Thanks!

 

[modusoperandi]

A friend of mine who has solid experience with MS3's & many dyno days to see the CS, CP-e, & ETS TMIC's perform. The intercoolers still take in heatsoak & the performance of all 3 of them isn't very far off. Personally its all a matter of what you can get your hands on for a reasonable price. If you want the cold air then running a FMIC or a meth setup might be in your best interests at this point. Like I said they all should perform the same. All 3 are doing the same exact thing which is removing the bottleneck restriction for optimum flow which the OEM one doesn't offer.

 

[Redline_Tuner]

Used to have an ETS TMIC. Switched to a custom setup FMIC (CX piping and a Treadstone TR8C core) and have never looked back. My BATs used to be ~35 over IAT at redline on WOT pulls. Now they're ~18-20. And heatsoak is all but a distant memory.

 

[MSMS3]

Redline, aren't you running E28 on a custom tune? Research suggests that the stock TMIC is as efficient on that level of ethanol as a good FMIC, is it not?

I'm still on the stock TMIC, and seem to be getting as much benefit with BATs by using a CAI to keep the IATs down on the front end. The problem with heat soak seems to be when sitting in traffic or slow bumper to bumper driving. In daily use we are not doing multiple dyno pulls. SRIs are sucking the hot air under the hood, sometimes between 130 and 160 degrees, until the car gets up to speed and pulls enough ambient air to bring IATs back to normal and thus lower BATs accordingly. That can take at least 30 seconds of speeds above 30-40 mph.

A better solution to high BATs may be addressing the problem at the intake by pulling air from the left front fender rather than under the hood.

I've run FMIC set ups on several SAABs, the problem for me has been the long pipe runs out to the grill and back with the resultant turbo lag.

For this reason I'm sticking with a TMIC being cooled directly from its own cold air duct and getting lower IATs from the CAI.

The question should be not just how close to IATs the BATs stay. It is how low are the IATs compared to ambient. The absolute BAT value is what ends up mattering, and no IC can make it better than the IAT. We need to focus more on keeping the charge cool before the MAF sensor reads density, rather than quibbling over differences in IC design where we are trading less frequent heat soak with always present turbo lag when going off boost and then back on.

 

[Redline_Tuner]

Yes, I'm on an ethanol mix. But ethanol or no, the stock TMIC isn't very efficient. It's also a flow bottleneck. When I went to the ETS TMIC, I didn't have to command nearly as high wastegate duty cycle to hit my boost targets. Getting an upgraded TMIC or FMIC is as much of a flow mod as it is about lowering BATs.

Secondly, there are two primary reasons for intercooling: 1. First and foremost, keeping the charge air cooler because higher BATs > more prone to detonate/get KR. This is minimized by our direct injection, but it's still a major issue, especially on a 93 or 91 tune. 2. Minimizing lost power by bringing BATs back down as close to IAT as possible.

The first reason (above) is rendered irrelevant in my situation because of ethanol's chemical properties. Due to its slow burning, evaporative cooling effect and reduced flamefront speed, KR is not an issue at all, even if I have super high BATs in my Texas summers because of 105+ degree ambient temps. Ethanol is a super-effective knock deterrent.

So, the second reason is key for me--minimizing lost power by bringing BATs back down. This is true for anyone, whether on ethanol or not. But also like I said, switching from the restrictive stock TMIC is an effective flow mod and makes your wastegate work much less hard to get boost.

Drawing intake air from an ideal spot, like with a CAI, definitely helps. But another factor is intercooler efficiency. Intercoolers only have so much cooling ability. The stock TMIC's thermal efficiency is only ~65%. Lots of good TMICs bring that up to the 80s. Even still, the cooling efficiency definitely diminishes with heatsoak, which is a liability in the design of TMICs on our cars. The metal itself absorbs engine heat very readily and looses cooling efficiency accordingly.

For that reason, a FMIC is simply superior. Sure, you may have a little less throttle response due to the piping volume, but who are we kidding, if we're talking about a K04, we virtually instaspool anyways. Even my BNR S3 spools virtually instantly, especially if I go WOT anywhere above 3000rpms (which I always do for rod safety).

Here in Texas, lowering BATs to combat KR is very important. Like I said, it's not an issue on ethanol, but a better setup minimizes the power losses associated with BATs too. Now, the Holy Grail to do this is methanol injection. Its chemical properties are similar to ethanol in that it's a superior knock deterrent. But also, good meth injection setups will actually get your BATs below IAT. Not only does this make up for all the lost power due to heat, but you gain a little bit extra by going actually going below IAT. But then you have another tank to fill, potential hydrolock issues, more things that can go wrong, etc. Some people consider it worth it, especially if they need more fuel. For me? I'm totally satisfied by my FMIC setup and running an ethanol mix.