And Iraq's big oil contracts go to ...
- Thread starter Donas64
- Start date
I'm sure I'll be stepping on someones toes here, but oil is a commodity, just as an orange, potato, or any other organic material is. Which means, the company that produces it does not set the price, the people who buy it, trade it, and sell it do. I would suggest that people who do not understand how our economy works should take a remedial course in economics. Get off your high horse about Exxon, Wal-Mart and any other company that makes a profit. IT'S CALLED CAPITALISM!
Donas64 said:
Supply is easily manipulated. A shortage is as easy as a headline or a holiday. A little routine maintenance on a refinery and the whole county is cast into over inflated gas prices. Contain the Iraqi oil and you maintain that strict supply. Capitalism? How about fascism!
Venezuela has a lot of oil and they're willing to share at a reasonable price. They're also doing an end run around the IMF and giving no strings attached loans to many in Latin America. This is how presidents get killed.
1st Gen said:
So Iraq should follow the Venezuelan model and just give their oil away? No offense but I'll take Capitalism over communism or socialism any day.
I say go for energy independence actually. I hate being held at the mercy of dictatorial thugs.
But we can't dril for our own and good luck trying to expand our refining capabilities. Thanks environmentalists!
Donas64 said:So Iraq should follow the Venezuelan model and just give their oil away? No offense but I'll take Capitalism over communism or socialism any day.
I say go for energy independence actually. I hate being held at the mercy of dictatorial thugs.
But we can't dril for our own and good luck trying to expand our refining capabilities. Thanks environmentalists!
(uhm)
I can only hope your not serious.
1st Gen said:
I'm saying I don't like the idea of using cheap oil to bribe people and buy votes. I'm serious about that.
As far as Chavez saying that he's the target of assasination. He has a grandiose sense of self importance. If anyone would take him out, it would be one of his frustrated citizens or a political rival.
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It didn't seem to work for the republicans eitherDonas64 said:
I haven't heard of anyone having a problem with him beside Pat Robertson and the republican right. He did have some issues with the oil labor back when but I'm not so sure that he wasn't fighting the good fight in that case.Danas64 said:
His real enemies are the oil industry, telecommunications industry, financial institution, religious institutions, and they manifest themselves publicly as Pat Roberson and the Republican right.
Look 1st gen
I'm like Capitalism
You Like Communism
So we're never gunna see eye to eye.
As far as I can tell, captialism has worked better in more countries for more people while communism....well.....not so much.
I'm sure you don't hate capitalism THAT much, because you still live in the United States when a Communist paradise like Cuba is only hours away. Heck even Venezuela might be a nice place to move. You'd have to give up some personal freedoms and such. But I hear the weathers great!
Seriously, I mean no offense but Communism hold ZERO appeal to me.
I'm like Capitalism
You Like Communism
So we're never gunna see eye to eye.
As far as I can tell, captialism has worked better in more countries for more people while communism....well.....not so much.
I'm sure you don't hate capitalism THAT much, because you still live in the United States when a Communist paradise like Cuba is only hours away. Heck even Venezuela might be a nice place to move. You'd have to give up some personal freedoms and such. But I hear the weathers great!
Seriously, I mean no offense but Communism hold ZERO appeal to me.
1st Gen said:
Nothing at all, except the fact that everytime I talk to you, you seem to be a big fan of Chavez, the ideas of communism and don't seem to care much for the facist United states and its silly Capitalistic Representative Republic.
The big bad USA is just picking on poor little Hugo.
Maybe I misinterpreted you words. But you sound like you'd be a lot happier living under the kind and Benevolent Hugo Chavez. Truly a man of the people!
Oh and BTW if you really believe that the Republicans manipulated and lowered gas prices to try and help their election hopes, then there really is no hope for you and I to have a meaningful intelligent conversation.
But since they lost, thay would explain perfectly why gas prices are on the rise now. Karl Rove and Dick Cheney and Haliburton are obviously making gas prices rise to make the Democrats look bad!(rofl2)
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Donas64 said:Nothing at all, except the fact that everytime I talk to you, you seem to be a big fan of Chavez, the ideas of communism and don't seem to care much for the facist United states and its silly Capitalistic Representative Republic.
The big bad USA is just picking on poor little Hugo.
Maybe I misinterpreted you words. But you sound like you'd be a lot happier living under the kind and Benevolent Hugo Chavez. Truly a man of the people!
Oh and BTW if you really believe that the Republicans manipulated and lowered gas prices to try and help their election hopes, then there really is no hope for you and I to have a meaningful intelligent conversation.
But since they lost, thay would explain perfectly why gas prices are on the rise now. Karl Rove and Dick Cheney and Haliburton are obviously making gas gas prices rise to make the Democrats look bad!(rofl2)
(ohsnap!)
The Bolivarian Revolution is the social and political movement founded by Hugo Chvez that is based on an interpretation of the ideals of Simn Bolvar, an early 19th century Latin American Independence hero who liberated most of northern South America from Spanish rule.Hugo Chvez declared the revolution upon being elected in 1998, vowing to do away with corruption in government and to renew democracy in Venezuela. ...Donas64 said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolivarian_Revolution
Is this your idea of "intelligent conversation"?Donas64 said:
I'm sure it would be a lot easier to convey the reality of our situation if those that disagreed with you left the country, and the conversation.donas64 said:Maybe I misinterpreted you words. But you sound like you'd be a lot happier living under the kind and Benevolent Hugo Chavez. Truly a man of the people!
No, I said that the the price of oil in the free market is easy to manipulate. We have a revolving door policy in Washington DC that allows corporate interest to create policy, the effect of which we see in record profit margins. There will never be a free market where oil is concerned.donas64 said:
donas64 said:
The price of gas is going to go up as long as supply remains restricted. The question you need to answer is who is restricting supply? Please don't blame those people that are trying to keep our air and our water from being polluted. If our government wanted refineries, we'd have them. Hasn't Iraq taught you anything?
1. I see your admiration of Mr. Chavez is as strong as ever. You see him as a good guy. I see him as a Dictatorial Thug Bully. We're just not gunna see eye to eye on that.
2. My Idea of Intelligent conversation is certainly not you thinking that a political party can single-handedly affect the price of a global commodity such as oil for their own advantage
3. I don't want you to leave the United States. Those words never came out of my mouth. You have just as much right to be here as I do. I'm just saying I think you'd be happier under a communist regime where Hugo....I mean a dictator can micromanage your life and take liberties away from you at will. I'm just looking out for YOUR happiness here. The USA is far to oppressive and miserable a place for you to live happily.
4. Big Companies make big profits. They also create jobs, build communities and keep our economy moving forward. Where there is fraud as in the case of enron and worldcomm, its perpetrators are brought to justice.
If you don't like Big companies making big profits, you're living in the wrong country. I will grant you this. CEO pay should be based on performance. If you're making money for the shareholders (that would be you and me and the rich fat cats who invest in businesses) and the company is thriving, then you should be rewarded. If you run the company into the ground, you should get the boot with no golden parachute.
5. The Dictator over in Iran and the Countries of the UAE and OPEC are the final word when it comes to who controls supply and demand. Not Exxon Mobile. Ahmedinijad could make the price of oil go up to $8 a barrel tomorrow if he wanted. We are at their mercy.
I was born in Nigeria. One of the top 5 Oil producing nations in the world. Also a hotbed of civil unrest right now. Nigeria has more of an impact over Oil prices than Exxon mobile.
I understand, you hate Big Oil (except for Citgo because Chavez is a swell guy) because they represent the fat cats and communism hates people who are wealthy. Everyone should be equal.
But to lay all the Worlds ills at the feet of Exxon mobile is just silly.
As far as more refineries, ever heard of "The Envrionmental Lobby"
Nuclear Power? Nope!
Drill for our own Oil? Not a chance?
Increase refining Capacity? Better luck next time?
Save the 7 toed mahi mahi Lizard? HECK YEAH!!!!!
2. My Idea of Intelligent conversation is certainly not you thinking that a political party can single-handedly affect the price of a global commodity such as oil for their own advantage
3. I don't want you to leave the United States. Those words never came out of my mouth. You have just as much right to be here as I do. I'm just saying I think you'd be happier under a communist regime where Hugo....I mean a dictator can micromanage your life and take liberties away from you at will. I'm just looking out for YOUR happiness here. The USA is far to oppressive and miserable a place for you to live happily.
4. Big Companies make big profits. They also create jobs, build communities and keep our economy moving forward. Where there is fraud as in the case of enron and worldcomm, its perpetrators are brought to justice.
If you don't like Big companies making big profits, you're living in the wrong country. I will grant you this. CEO pay should be based on performance. If you're making money for the shareholders (that would be you and me and the rich fat cats who invest in businesses) and the company is thriving, then you should be rewarded. If you run the company into the ground, you should get the boot with no golden parachute.
5. The Dictator over in Iran and the Countries of the UAE and OPEC are the final word when it comes to who controls supply and demand. Not Exxon Mobile. Ahmedinijad could make the price of oil go up to $8 a barrel tomorrow if he wanted. We are at their mercy.
I was born in Nigeria. One of the top 5 Oil producing nations in the world. Also a hotbed of civil unrest right now. Nigeria has more of an impact over Oil prices than Exxon mobile.
I understand, you hate Big Oil (except for Citgo because Chavez is a swell guy) because they represent the fat cats and communism hates people who are wealthy. Everyone should be equal.
But to lay all the Worlds ills at the feet of Exxon mobile is just silly.
As far as more refineries, ever heard of "The Envrionmental Lobby"
Nuclear Power? Nope!
Drill for our own Oil? Not a chance?
Increase refining Capacity? Better luck next time?
Save the 7 toed mahi mahi Lizard? HECK YEAH!!!!!
I'm not sure if I admire him. I do respect him though. He has put himself into a position of power using socialist, democratic ideals, much the chagrin of the US corporate heads.Donas64 said:
Donas64 said:
I never said they were doing it single handedly. They are complicit though.
Donas64 said:
You don't think you can loose your rights in this country? Take a close look at a credit card contract some time. Do a google search about warrantless wire taps or eminent domain. Try being homeless or getting caught up in the war on drugs.
I like profit too, believe me I do. I also think there are things that are more important than money. A child's innocents, an elderlies security, a nations integrity. I'm not answering this properly but I'm running out of timeDonas64 said:
Isn't it some crazy coincidence that regions that have oil are far more likely to have some type of genocide or civil war going on? Iraq, Darfur, and Nigeria should all be great places to live because of the incredible wealth that is inherent to their respective regions. I guess that's one reason I respect Venezuela.Donas64 said:
Now your just being condescending.Donas64 said:
1st Gen said:
I'm very careful with credit cards. Didn't get one until I was 22 and never carry a balance on it. Credit card companies can be devious but they have gotten a lot better. They are no longer Satan, they are just the spawn of satan now. But seriously, if you live within your means and are responsible with your finances, credit cards should be the least of your worries.
I'll agree with you on emminent domain. Thats a Dang Shame. The United Sates isn't perfect and eminent domain is something that needs to be fought tooth and nail. If the govt wants my property, it should be my right to determine how much I want to sell it for (within reason) and to say no I don't want to sell.
As for wire taps? They are only supposed to be used for calls involving terror suspects, but really, doesn't bother me as of yet cuz I've got nothing to hide and sincerely, I don't think the wiretaps are have gotten out of hand. They should and are being monitored though.
Once again, being homesless is a tragedy. But we don't live in a perfect world. Venezuela has homeless people too.
1st Gen said:
I see where you are coming from. And those are issues everyone has to deal with. Thats where personal responsibity come in. I hope that I'm wise enough that when I'm old I would have made wise investments to be able to take care of my wife and I financially and that I've been a good father so my children will do what they can to assist me. I don't want to DEPEND on the govt to take care of me when I'm old. I don't mind a helping hand, but I want to do for myself. Not have others do for me. I don't think Capitalism and integrity have to be mutually exclusive. Any system can be taken advantage of. But in America there is a spirit of entrepreneurship and a cn do attitude that is the envy of the world. There are plenty of people who woek hard to make money and enrich their lives while also enriching the lives of those around them and using their wealth to make the world a better placeand doing it all of their own free will. Thats what capitalism can do.
1st Gen said:
I'll give Chavez this, he is keeping his country in line...for now. But look at Cuba. I lived there. Its a nice enough place but is now falling into decay and ruin. People will blame sanctions and such but there is more to it than that. The people there have a feeling of hopelessness, not being given the chance to reach their full potential. Cuba should be thriving but its not.
The reason countires like my birthplace (Nigeria), Iraq and Darfur suffer despite their Oil wealth is bad leadership, tribal infighting and greed. The rulers of those nations were more interested in petty squabbles, getting what they could while the getting was good and preserving their own power than doing right by their people. Luckily, Nigeria emerged from military rule some years ago and now has a functioning democracy. Like Iraq though it is still missing strong leadership.
Chavez is walking a fine line right now. I still don't care for him one bit, but at least for the moment he's balancing the applecart. We'll see how long he can keep it up and how much power he can seize before the people say ENOUGH!
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