CX-5 Tapping noise

[Jack Rabbit]

Ok. Engine has been making noise for some time now. Indy mechanic last year said its just injectors. Took to dealer last year to have whole car checked out and said check the engine for any problems, especially cracked cylinder head. Vocally mentioned the sound and was told it's the injectors. They had the vehicle and heard it running.

I usually jump in my car and startup and then drive.

So today, while checking the brakes, left vehicle idling to go get my wheelchocks, and heard this from 60 feet away.

Sure sounds like the valves to me.

Also if you listen you can hear both the injectors clicking but you can also hear the tapping noise.

And it hasn't thrown any engine related codes.

Any opinions?
Lifters, HLA's or injectors ???
Thanks.

 

[racermp]

that's a lifter tick, not injector. these lifters are hydraulic so they need oil pressure. sometimes oil doesn't flow with good pressure. i've seen this on many 2.5. especially 17/18 2.5s. it comes and goes. it's not a big issue really. if dealer can replicate then they can replace the lifter. if not and it happens more frequently then an engine flush may help clear the passage ways. but it should go away after a day or 2.

 

[edmaz]

..... i've seen this on many 2.5. especially 17/18 2.5s. ...

What you wrote above would seem to indicate that you're a Mazda tech. But according to everything I've read, no 2017 Skyactiv has CD, and therefore does not have the CD switchable HLAs that Mazda has flagged as being misdesigned. And, if 2017 has a lifter issue, then why not 2016, and earlier years as well?

So can you explain why you lumped specifically just 17 and 18 together, without including any other model years?

 

[cz5gt]

did you try with different oil?

 

[Jack Rabbit]

did you try with different oil?

Nope...it's the Castrol Edge 0W-20 and Mazda filter.

 

[Odrapnew]

I'm also in the camp of lifter tick, however, I wouldn't say it's normal.

Last time I heard lifter tick that loud was when I started the new engine in my old 89 5.0, but it only ticked for about 10 seconds until all the lifters pumped up.

If it is a lifter not pumping up, that might not show up in idle or light load, but once you start to get 'heavy with the right foot' possible a misfire (or weak cylinder) is detected because that valve might not be opening all the way. Just a thought.

 

[racermp]

What you wrote above would seem to indicate that you're a Mazda tech. But according to everything I've read, no 2017 Skyactiv has CD, and therefore does not have the CD switchable HLAs that Mazda has flagged as being misdesigned. And, if 2017 has a lifter issue, then why not 2016, and earlier years as well?

So can you explain why you lumped specifically just 17 and 18 together, without including any other model years?

sorry i'm not a mazda tech. but if you check google and youtube, there's many hits for 2017 and 2018. also a few friends who have 2018's also randomly have this issue, it seems common. also i think i saw a tsb somewhere. seems primarily cx-5 related. i remember something about cylinder deactivation or something on these.

ahhh tsb says 18/19

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10168140-0001.pdf

 

[Jack Rabbit]

I'm also in the camp of lifter tick, however, I wouldn't say it's normal.

Last time I heard lifter tick that loud was when I started the new engine in my old 89 5.0, but it only ticked for about 10 seconds until all the lifters pumped up.

If it is a lifter not pumping up, that might not show up in idle or light load, but once you start to get 'heavy with the right foot' possible a misfire (or weak cylinder) is detected because that valve might not be opening all the way. Just a thought.

Thanks for the advice.

Planned to drop the CX-5 at dealer and go to work. Wonder if i took the day off if they would let me see the engine once the valve covers off? Hate to waste a day off if they wont let me back in the garage area.

 

[RedBaron]

Hate to waste a day off if they wont let me back in the garage area.

Usually they won't due to insurance reasons. But maybe if you grovel to the Service Mgr, they'll let you - at least for a quick visit. In any case, check first before you take the day off

 

[sm1ke]

Thanks for the advice.

Planned to drop the CX-5 at dealer and go to work. Wonder if i took the day off if they would let me see the engine once the valve covers off? Hate to waste a day off if they wont let me back in the garage area.

Maybe you can request that the tech take a short video on their phone of the area you want to see. I know some dealership techs have started providing video footage to customers to help explain/upsell services. But they don't do that at my local dealerships (not yet at least).

 

[macker]

Add me to the list of noisy engine complaints. I started the engine up first thing in the morning and this is how it sounded. The video says it all. My guess is this is the issue identified in the service alert for Hydraulic Valve lash adjusters gone bad. Off to the dealership on Monday, and they are aware of this service alert/problem. Just hoping there isn't more damage caused to the motor by this OR if there is, they do the right thing and fix it right.

Let me know if you have any issues opening the link.....it's up on YouTube and posted using the "Unlisted" feature vs. public.

2018 CX-5 Engine ticking

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Add me to the list of noisy engine complaints. I started the engine up first thing in the morning and this is how it sounded. The video says it all. My guess is this is the issue identified in the service alert for Hydraulic Valve lash adjusters gone bad. Off to the dealership on Monday, and they are aware of this service alert/problem. Just hoping there isn't more damage caused to the motor by this OR if there is, they do the right thing and fix it right.

Let me know if you have any issues opening the link.....it's up on YouTube and posted using the "Unlisted" feature vs. public.

2018 CX-5 Engine ticking

Yep same exact lifter noise.

 

[edmaz]

Add me to the list of noisy engine complaints. I started the engine up first thing in the morning and this is how it sounded. ...

If more of these reports start coming in, it might be helpful to have some background information collected, so here's a few questions for you.

How long would you say that excessive noise been happening, and how quickly has it gotten worse? Also, does the noise go away or greatly diminish after being fully warmed up, or is it basically continuous? How about ambient temp - does that have any effect on the noise? Also, what's the current mileage on your vehicle, and what oil change interval has been used?

 

[macker]

If more of these reports start coming in, it might be helpful to have some background information collected, so here's a few questions for you.

How long would you say that excessive noise been happening, and how quickly has it gotten worse? Also, does the noise go away or greatly diminish after being fully warmed up, or is it basically continuous? How about ambient temp - does that have any effect on the noise? Also, what's the current mileage on your vehicle, and what oil change interval has been used?

Hey Edmaz, I agree it would be a great idea to track this problem separately in the forum. Maybe a sub folder in this sub forum (Engine/Drivetrain) covering Service Alerts/Tech Bulletins?

Here's some of my observations and data points:

1. Noise has been intermittent now and noticeable with the cold weather arriving. Can't say I really noticed it in the warmer months. It happens the most after the car has sat overnight (or for a few days) in colder weather. Today, it was above freezing and wasn't noticeable. The event captured in the video, temp was about -8 C. Haven't noticed it once the car has been driven for a while (20-30 mins.).

2. I use the factory oil filter (Thailand) and Castrol Edge Synthetic 0@-20. Oil changes are done Every 8000 kms. (5000 miles) per Mazda. I perform them myself.

3. Current Mileage: Just under 53000 kms. or roughly 33,000 miles.

I'll provide an update after the car gets looked at by the local Mazda dealer.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Hey Edmaz, I agree it would be a great idea to track this problem separately in the forum. Maybe a sub folder in this sub forum (Engine/Drivetrain) covering Service Alerts/Tech Bulletins?

Here's some of my observations and data points:

1. Noise has been intermittent now and noticeable with the cold weather arriving. Can't say I really noticed it in the warmer months. It happens the most after the car has sat overnight (or for a few days) in colder weather. Today, it was above freezing and wasn't noticeable. The event captured in the video, temp was about -8 C. Haven't noticed it once the car has been driven for a while (20-30 mins.).

2. I use the factory oil filter (Thailand) and Castrol Edge Synthetic 0@-20. Oil changes are done Every 8000 kms. (5000 miles) per Mazda. I perform them myself.

3. Current Mileage: Just under 53000 kms. or roughly 33,000 miles.

I'll provide an update after the car gets looked at by the local Mazda dealer.

Likewise my problem seems to have started occurring at idle during winter cold, sometimes at start up, others after car has been running and then back at idle.

 

[edmaz]

....
I use the factory oil filter (Thailand) and Castrol Edge Synthetic 0@-20. Oil changes are done Every 8000 kms. (5000 miles) per Mazda. I perform them myself.
....

Oil changes is one of the only things that owners can control, and what you described above is probably as 'vanilla' as it gets. A number of folks here (including myself) do identical or very similar oil changes, and so it's a very good thing when we have a confirmed case where poor oil maintenance can definitely be eliminated as a possible reason for the noise

And that reminds me of the other significant variable which owners can control, and which I forgot to ask you about. So if you can post approximately how long you warm-up your vehicle (particularly on the very cold days), that would provide as complete a picture as we can hope to have.

Also, based on what you wrote, I suspect that your dealer would probably not be able to confirm the noise at the time you drive it in to them (i.e. after it's been warmed up). So hopefully you can drop it off on a cold day, and have them be willing to start it up the next morning to check for the noise at that time.

 

[macker]

Oil changes is one of the only things that owners can control, and what you described above is probably as 'vanilla' as it gets. A number of folks here (including myself) do identical or very similar oil changes, and so it's a very good thing when we have a confirmed case where poor oil maintenance can definitely be eliminated as a possible reason for the noise

And that reminds me of the other significant variable which owners can control, and which I forgot to ask you about. So if you can post approximately how long you warm-up your vehicle (particularly on the very cold days), that would provide as complete a picture as we can hope to have.

Also, based on what you wrote, I suspect that your dealer would probably not be able to confirm the noise at the time you drive it in to them (i.e. after it's been warmed up). So hopefully you can drop it off on a cold day, and have them be willing to start it up the next morning to check for the noise at that time.

The one thing I've always believed is key to giving you the best chance at extending your cars service life: change all the fluids in your vehicle on a regular basis (at the very least when the mfg. tells you to). And don't believe the mfg. marketing hype of good for "life time". It's served me well.

I've agreed to drop the car off over night so they can start it up the next morning. Currently scheduled for Monday, but if it's not going to be cold enough, I plan to re-schedule.

I typically start the car and let it warm up for at least 30 secs. to 1 min. If it's really cold, I have a remote starter on it, and will fire it up and let it sit for up to 5 mins.

Every start up from here on out, I plan to log what happens and note the temp and duration of the noise.

I believe my driving habits are pretty reflective of many; some highway driving and some city, with some short shopping trips and some longer highway drives.

 

[macker]

Thanks for the advice.

Planned to drop the CX-5 at dealer and go to work. Wonder if i took the day off if they would let me see the engine once the valve covers off? Hate to waste a day off if they wont let me back in the garage area.

Suggest you try and take it in and leave it over night outside at the dealer when the weather is forecast to be cold so as to have the best chance of recreating the issue. Look forward to hearing what your dealer has to say.

 

[edmaz]

.....
I've agreed to drop the car off over night so they can start it up the next morning. Currently scheduled for Monday, but if it's not going to be cold enough, I plan to re-schedule. ....

That's a good plan, and should result in a decent chance that they'll be able to confirm the excessive noise, and move forward to diagnose further. Have you had any discussion with your dealer about the 'air bubble' TSB? If not you might want to bring up the subject when you drop it off, because that's the only document that I'm aware of which gives them the go ahead to pull the valve cover to test the switchable HLAs, and get warranty reimbursement from Mazda for their work.

...
I typically start the car and let it warm up for at least 30 secs. to 1 min. If it's really cold, I have a remote starter on it, and will fire it up and let it sit for up to 5 mins. ....

The warm up routine that you posted above is another very helpful piece of information. I've always wondered about a possible relationship of engine noise and issues, to very short warm ups (or none at all). Although a sample size of one certainly is not proof of anything (either way), nevertheless it does show there's at least one case of this noise happening on a vehicle that's always given more than enough time to warm up.

And the typical driving pattern that you mentioned completes the trifecta which indicates a very well maintained and operated vehicle. So now I'm even more interested in what happens with your vehicle going forward, and @Jack Rabbit's as well. And a big shout out to you for taking the time to share all of this information, which may very well turn out to be important in trying to understand the scope and impact of the root cause of the noise

 

[Jack Rabbit]

That's a good plan, and should result in a decent chance that they'll be able to confirm the excessive noise, and move forward to diagnose further. Have you had any discussion with your dealer about the 'air bubble' TSB? If not you might want to bring up the subject when you drop it off, because that's the only document that I'm aware of which gives them the go ahead to pull the valve cover to test the switchable HLAs, and get warranty reimbursement from Mazda for their work.



The warm up routine that you posted above is another very helpful piece of information. I've always wondered about a possible relationship of engine noise and issues, to very short warm ups (or none at all). Although a sample size of one certainly is not proof of anything (either way), nevertheless it does show there's at least one case of this noise happening on a vehicle that's always given more than enough time to warm up.

And the typical driving pattern that you mentioned completes the trifecta which indicates a very well maintained and operated vehicle. So now I'm even more interested in what happens with your vehicle going forward, and @Jack Rabbit's as well. And a big shout out to you for taking the time to share all of this information, which may very well turn out to be important in trying to understand the scope and impact of the root cause of the noise

Don't know the maintenance record of prior owner, but bought as CPO and oil changes between 5000 and 7500 miles.

In winter, car is warmed up for 5 to 10 minutes to defrost windshield before driving.

The tapping was not on engine start but occured at idle after the car had been idling for over a few minutes.

 

[edmaz]

Don't know the maintenance record of prior owner, but bought as CPO ....

Being a second owner does add some uncertainty, simply because of the possibility that the PO did something that created the condition for whatever is causing the excessive noise. Not saying that's the case, only that it's an unknown factor which can't be eliminated from the mix.

But in any case, whatever the outcome is with your vehicle will almost certainly be another helpful piece of the puzzle, and also thanks to you for sharing your background information as well.