2013~2016 Suspension Clunk (Driver Front) after replacing suspension components

[Digbicks1234]

Hey guys,

I finished replacing majority of the components for my front suspension and when I was doing a test drive last night, I kept hearing clunks over uneven pavement/bumpy roads for the driver (front) side. The clunking noise is audible around <20 mph but if I go around 30-40 mph, it seems to not be as pronounced. I went through every single bolt that I touched twice with the torque wrench and followed the factory torque spec ranges within the service manual. The only thing that I can think of after doing more research is the below:

• I messed up the install somehow/forgot to tighten something down.
• Center top nut holding down the entire suspension assembly to be tightened.
• Front Struts Damaged? I did see an indentation from some of the strut nuts puncturing the box when it arrived, not sure if it has to do with that.
• Strut Mounting Plates: Since this is a pre-assembled strut from KYB, I am not sure if it is possible but there may be a defect.
• Control arms need to be in a specific position? Not sure how true that is but I lined up all of the bolt holes and hand tightened everything before tightening it down with a ratchet/torque wrench.
• Possibly the knuckle?
• Lower Control Arm Bolt: There was one bolt that feeds into the horizontally into the Engine Cradle I believe and it was blocked by the transmission pan so I had to use a 19 mm swivel head bolt with an extension to get into there with the torque wrench and tighten it down to 170 ft. lbs. I did it a second time just to be safe but I am not sure if this may have something to do with the noise.

Parts Replaced (OEM with exception of Front Struts)

1. Front Struts: Used KYB
2. Front Tie Rods: Used OEM
3. Stabilizer End Links: Used OEM
4. Stabilizer Link Dampers: Used OEM
5. Lower Control Arms: I replaced both sides with OEM lower control arms and I believe I saw some play in one of the sides but it might be normal. Please see the side circled in red as that may be the side.

Parts that I attempted to replace:

1. Front Stabilizer Bar Bushings: I originally planned to remove the front stabilizer bar bushings but it was getting really late and I ended up slightly rounding one of the bolts holding the stabilizer bar bushing brackets before stopping. It did not seem to come loose.

Sound of the noise over bumps/uneven pavement:
https://soundcloud.com/user9598857/...d&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

 

[RedBaron]

Well, it seems you replaced every suspension that could make noise. I doubt that one bolt would make noise if it was tight (even if not fully torqued).

So, are you SURE it's the front end that's making the noise, and not the rear? Or it could be something else loose (e.g. exhaust or cover plate)?

 

[Digbicks1234]

Well, it seems you replaced every suspension that could make noise. I doubt that one bolt would make noise if it was tight (even if not fully torqued).

So, are you SURE it's the front end that's making the noise, and not the rear? Or it could be something else loose (e.g. exhaust or cover plate)?

I believe it is the front but I will do some more testing again. Something else that I forgot to mention and may be a factor as well was that I tied the inner tie rod to the front struts using zip ties after removing the outer tie rod as I needed to cut off the rusted sway bar end links using an angle grinder. Not sure if that may have damaged the inner tie rods by having them dangle in the air like that but that may be a possibility.

I'm going to try the below to troubleshoot, let me know if you guys have any other ideas:

1. Tighten the center nut of the KYB assembly to see if that makes a difference
2. Press down on the front of the car near the suspension and bounce it to see the clunk can be replicated.
3. Jack the front tires up in the air and shake the wheels in different positions to see if I can replicate the clunk.
4. Replace the front sway bar bushings/bracket/bolts to see if that fixes the clunk.
5. Swap back the old driver strut assembly and do a test drive with the new control arms.
6. Swap back the old driver control arm and do a test run with the old driver strut assembly.
7. Last Resort: Bring the car to a mechanic and pay the $100-140 diagnostic fee.

Next time I do anything with the suspension, I'll be sure to do one thing at a time instead of all at once

 

[Jmaz]

Maybe it's my ears but I can't hear a clunk in you audio track.
You can try shaking the wheels as you listed so as to detect a bad wheel bearing. But bad wheel bearings don't always have any 'play' or looseness. Put your hand on the spring and turn the wheel and feel for any vibration that gets transmitted to the spring. A mechanic showed me this when I tried shaking the wheel (it was on the lift in the shop) and told him I didn't feel any looseness. A new bearing fixed it.
Another time I had a bad bearing with no play and it was difficult to diagnose which side was bad by doing a test drive. All we could hear was the rumbling sound. They finally got the wheels spinning on the lift and used a heat gun to detect the warmer/hotter one bearing.
I don't know if you have a bad wheel bearing but I guess you can deduce that bad bearings don't always have play.
Another note. You mentioned zip tying the inner tie rods. Inner tie rods should not be loose enough to dangle. The joint should be tight and it should be stiff to move and the rod be able to point and stay in any direction it is placed up, down or sideways.
Finally, have you tried shaking anything( and everything) under the hood. My radiator was able to move fore and aft by 1/8" or more by easily shaking it. Never had a car with a loosely mounted radiator. Fixed it with a few strips of dense foam. It's firmly mounted now.
Take a little time to go around and shake things in the front of the car. Loose plastic trim etc. Who knows? Start with the easy stuff and make sure nothing is rattling around the glovebox.
All I got for now, good luck, hang in there and you'll get there.

 

[edmaz]

Hey guys,

I finished replacing majority of the components for my front suspension and when I was doing a test drive last night, I kept hearing clunks over uneven pavement/bumpy roads for the driver (front) side. ...

How does the noise you're hearing now compare to whatever was happening before you started the work?

 

[Digbicks1234]

How does the noise you're hearing now compare to whatever was happening before you started the work?

I only hear the suspension or whichever component it was bottoming out over uneven pavement once in a while but other than that not too severe but after replacing everything, it sounds like it's clunking on every single uneven pavement like something is loose or has a lot of play on low speeds, when going straight. You would think something was broken....

 

[Silly Wabbit]

Thoughts to your ideas
1) compress the spring first
2) open the door for extra leverage to shake the car

And maybe try retorque the bolts with the car on the ground.

 

[Digbicks1234]

Maybe it's my ears but I can't hear a clunk in you audio track.
You can try shaking the wheels as you listed so as to detect a bad wheel bearing. But bad wheel bearings don't always have any 'play' or looseness. Put your hand on the spring and turn the wheel and feel for any vibration that gets transmitted to the spring. A mechanic showed me this when I tried shaking the wheel (it was on the lift in the shop) and told him I didn't feel any looseness. A new bearing fixed it.
Another time I had a bad bearing with no play and it was difficult to diagnose which side was bad by doing a test drive. All we could hear was the rumbling sound. They finally got the wheels spinning on the lift and used a heat gun to detect the warmer/hotter one bearing.
I don't know if you have a bad wheel bearing but I guess you can deduce that bad bearings don't always have play.
Another note. You mentioned zip tying the inner tie rods. Inner tie rods should not be loose enough to dangle. The joint should be tight and it should be stiff to move and the rod be able to point and stay in any direction it is placed up, down or sideways.
Finally, have you tried shaking anything( and everything) under the hood. My radiator was able to move fore and aft by 1/8" or more by easily shaking it. Never had a car with a loosely mounted radiator. Fixed it with a few strips of dense foam. It's firmly mounted now.
Take a little time to go around and shake things in the front of the car. Loose plastic trim etc. Who knows? Start with the easy stuff and make sure nothing is rattling around the glovebox.
All I got for now, good luck, hang in there and you'll get there.

Thank you @Jmaz, I'll give those ideas a try

 

[Digbicks1234]

Thoughts to your ideas
1) compress the spring first
2) open the door for extra leverage to shake the car

And maybe try retorque the bolts with the car on the ground.

Would you mind clarifying on how you would compress the spring? All good suggestions, I will give them a try to see if there's any improvement

 

[Silly Wabbit]

Rent a free spring compressor tool from your local auto store.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Just a thought...

Within the past few years, when I was in another shop(not my local shop), when I went to pick up my car, they handed me a bag of all the stuff I left in the car ( loose change, water bottles, pens, magazines, loose screws and bolts, stuff I didn't know I had). They cleaned out every nook and cranny...

in all my years, never had that happen before.

Confused I asked why they cleaned my car and if it was part of the service.

They said they take every single loose thing out of the cabin compartment & trunk so they can determine where any noises are coming from without having something loose clanking around from inside the car.

I now use this practice when working on my vehicles.

Just a thought to help narrow it down and eliminate any possible interference noises.

Also, if you can get a buddy or neighbor to move or drive your vehicle down the driveway/street while you listen may help as well. Ask them to hit a small pothole/bump at varying speeds(low under 10 mph to start) while you stand on the side of the road. Have them hit a small bump/pothole from each side so you can determine which side it's coming from.

Like Jmaz said, you may think the noise is coming from one place when it's actually something else.

Maybe you fixed it correctly but now something else is wrong/making noise or you are just now hearing it.

Or maybe one of the new parts was defective. Hopefully that's not the case.

 

[edmaz]

....
Parts that I attempted to replace:

1. Front Stabilizer Bar Bushings: I originally planned to remove the front stabilizer bar bushings but it was getting really late and I ended up slightly rounding one of the bolts holding the stabilizer bar bushing brackets before stopping. It did not seem to come loose. ....

Have you gone back there and taken a close look at that bolt and bushing? Although it sounds, as you said, that nothing should have happened when you tried that bolt, the fact remains that SOMETHING did change as a result of your work, so I guess it's a case of everything being guilty, until being proven innocent.

 

[Digbicks1234]

Just a thought...

Within the past few years, when I was in another shop(not my local shop), when I went to pick up my car, they handed me a bag of all the stuff I left in the car ( loose change, water bottles, pens, magazines, loose screws and bolts, stuff I didn't know I had). They cleaned out every nook and cranny...

in all my years, never had that happen before.

Confused I asked why they cleaned my car and if it was part of the service.

They said they take every single loose thing out of the cabin compartment & trunk so they can determine where any noises are coming from without having something loose clanking around from inside the car.

I now use this practice when working on my vehicles.

Just a thought to help narrow it down and eliminate any possible interference noises.

Also, if you can get a buddy or neighbor to move or drive your vehicle down the driveway/street while you listen may help as well. Ask them to hit a small pothole/bump at varying speeds(low under 10 mph to start) while you stand on the side of the road. Have them hit a small bump/pothole from each side so you can determine which side it's coming from.

Like Jmaz said, you may think the noise is coming from one place when it's actually something else.

Maybe you fixed it correctly but now something else is wrong/making noise or you are just now hearing it.

Or maybe one of the new parts was defective. Hopefully that's not the case.

Have you gone back there and taken a close look at that bolt and bushing? Although it sounds, as you said, that nothing should have happened when you tried that bolt, the fact remains that SOMETHING did change as a result of your work, so I guess it's a case of everything being guilty, until being proven innocent.

All good points guys, I will see what I can do to isolate the noise. I was watching EricTheCarGuy on YouTube and he had a great tip of using a hammer to smack the tire in the air to see if the noise can be replicated as it is simulating the tire hitting a bump. I will use a pry bar to see if there's any excess play in any of the lower control arm/sway bar bushings and go back and check the bolts/any plastic trims as well. Not gonna be fun having to go back to the Mazda Parts store or RockAuto if the parts are defective since I've had the parts sitting here for over a month now while waiting for all of the new mounting hardware from Mazda

Another thing that I was considering was to completely remove the front sway bar/end links to see if that would make a difference over bumps. It's a little dangerous doing this but I am not planning to do any high speed maneuvers, just driving around the block with imperfect roads to do some more testing to see if the noise can be isolated but I plan on working my way down the list before attempting this.

 

[edmaz]

....
Another thing that I was considering was to completely remove the front sway bar/end links to see if that would make a difference over bumps. It's a little dangerous doing this but I am not planning to do any high speed maneuvers, just driving around the block with imperfect roads to do some more testing to see if the noise can be isolated but I plan on working my way down the list before attempting this.

Although I haven't actually done this myself, I've read reports from other people who have, and IMO it seems like a good diagnostic test to try. A few very low speed turns shouldn't be dangerous at all, and you'll get the answer you're looking for (one way or the other) just as soon as you travel over a few bad spots in the road.

And I believe you can accomplish this by just removing the link from the sway bar and leaving the other end attached. Just duct tape it semi loose to something else, so that it can't go anywhere that it shouldn't go and/or have the unattached end produce noise by making contact with another part.

 

[Jmaz]

I would rule out any component that was replaced and tightened correctly. The likelihood of defective new parts is really low especially OEM. Therefore not remove end links or be concerned with the others. You've eliminated a lot of potential noise sources so I'd concentrate elsewhere. You've been through a lot in this whole process and it's easy to get confused or second guess your efforts because there is still a noise from 'something'. Look beyond what you've already accomplished.
Red Baron brings up a good point of checking the exhaust. I was under my car 3 times this past weekend removing, repainting and reinstalling a trailer hitch that was getting rusty. I removed the muffler each time to make access easy. With the muffler off it was easy to move the long pipe enough to bang into a central cross brace just after the cat. It appears there is no intermediate supports, meaning the only supports are at the exhaust manifold in the front and the 4 rubber hangers on the muffler in the rear. The cat, long pipe and muffler puts a lot of weight between those 2 points. Possibly not your problem but worth checking out.

 

[edmaz]

I would rule out any component that was replaced and tightened correctly. The likelihood of defective new parts is really low especially OEM. Therefore not remove end links or be concerned with the others. You've eliminated a lot of potential noise sources so I'd concentrate elsewhere. You've been through a lot in this whole process and it's easy to get confused or second guess your efforts because there is still a noise from 'something'. Look beyond what you've already accomplished.
....

Based on what you wrote above, I think you've missed the fact that Digbicks1234 posted that the noise now is worse/more frequent than it was before he started the job. So IMO, he shouldn't eliminate anything until the cause of the new noise has been identified, and that trying the disconnected links test might very well be a worthwhile thing to try.

 

[Jmaz]

Based on what you wrote above, I think you've missed the fact that Digbicks1234 posted that the noise now is worse/more frequent than it was before he started the job. So IMO, he shouldn't eliminate anything until the cause of the new noise has been identified, and that trying the disconnected links test might very well be a worthwhile thing to try.

You are correct. I did miss that point. A review of work done is in order.

 

[Digbicks1234]

The issue has been resolved, thanks for all of your advice and tips guys.

Short Answer:
User error as I did not fully tighten the tie-rod end locknut fully on both the driver/passenger sides which resulted in the clunk over uneven pavements at speeds of <20 mph.

Long Answer:
I actually knew about the tie-rod end locknut not being fully tight prior to torqueing all of the bolts/nuts down but I did not know that it would make a significant difference in terms of the clunking noise which was my oversight since I thought securing the lower ball joint into the knuckle would be enough.

I do recall watching a few videos about counting the number of turns when loosening/tightening the outer-tie rod and I followed this same exact process but I'm guessing having to use a MAP torch and loosening the rust slightly affected this methodology since the rust created a seal between the two components. I would say it might be dumb luck or something that I figured it out but either way, I am happy to have resolved the issue. Here's the troubleshooting process that I went through to figure it out:

1. Rocking the Tires: I had the car on jack stands with the front tires lifted off of the ground and then proceeded to rotate the tires at the 9 and 3 o'clock position to see if there was any noise. I did hear some noise when rocking left to right and afterwards, I rocked the tires at the 12 and 6 o'clock position as well but there wasn't much noise from this angle.
2. Hitting tires with a Hammer: Based on what I saw from EricTheCarGuy, he recommended using a hammer to whack the wheel at different angles to see if there was anything that could be discernable and I thought I heard something when performing this method on both the driver/passenger sides but I wasn't too sure based on my inexperience so I moved onto step #3.
3. Prying Components with Bushings: I used a pry bar to attempt to pry the sway bar to see/hear if there was any play or if there was any metal on metal contact but there was nothing. I also used the pry bar to rock the control arm bushings from side to side to see if there was any noise but I did not hear anything as well.
4. Wiggling Components by Hand: I tried to wiggle the stabilizer bar end links to see if there was any play but there was nothing and I eventually removed both of the sway bar end links from the driver and passenger side of the vehicle. I then used my hands and grabbed onto the sway bars as they are now easily maneuverable and I was able to fully rock the sway bars up and down to see if there was any play with the bushings but there was nothing still except the rubber noise. The next thing I did was wiggle the tie-end locknuts in a back and forth motion. Upon doing this, I heard some play but I wasn't sure if this was normal behavior or not.
5. Hitting brake caliper/bracket with Tire: Finally, when I was about to put the wheels back onto the wheel hub to lower the vehicle back onto the ground and do a test drive without the sway bar end links, I heard a strange noise that sounded like what I heard when performing test #1 when the rubber portion of the tire hit the brake caliper/caliper bracket. I used this as a hint and kept hitting the caliper/caliper bracket using the tire again repeatedly and it sounded exactly like the clunk noise I was hearing. I did the same exact thing on the passenger side and hit the brake caliper/caliper bracket with the tire and the clunk was not that noticeable if at all. Eventually, I was able to locate the clunk and pinpoint it to the tie-rod locknut and when I grasped the area with where the outer tie rod and lock nut were held together to see if I could dampen the noise while hitting the caliper with the wheel, it significantly reduced the clunking noise.
6. Tightening the tie-end locknuts: I then proceeded to tighten the tie-rod end locknuts fully on both the driver and passenger side and then reinstalled/torqued down the sway bar link end nuts and went for a test drive over bumpy/uneven roads with <20 mph to see if the noise could be replicated and I did not hear the clunk anymore.

Observation:

• The passenger side tie-rod locknut had a extremely small gap between the outer tie rod.
• The driver side tie-rod locknut had a 1-2 mm gap between the outer tie rod.

Tie-rod locknut (Driver)

Tie-rod locknut (Passenger)

Here's a video of it:

 

[Digbicks1234]

Here are some other items that on my list that I need to tackle after getting a wheel alignment.

1. ABS Bolt: Snapped in half when I was trying to attempting to remove the ABS sensor to allow more maneuverability when replacing the front struts but I'll need to find a way to extract it.
2. Front Sway Bar Bushings: Planning on using my extraction socket set to remove the nuts holding the sway bar nuts into place since the (4) bolts are on the top and the nuts are on the bottom. Curious if this will make any difference in terms of improving the overall NVH even further.
3. Rear Sway Bar Bushings: Not sure how I am going to tackle this one yet since it looks like someone had to drop/lower the subframe. Curious to see if there is a way to replace this without even touching the subframe at all by coming through the control arms.
4. Rear Passenger Noise: Each time a passenger/myself gets out of the car, there is this weird metallic noise that appears almost like a creak. I am able to replicate it if I use my foot by applying full pressure at the 12 and 3 o'clock positions of the tire but I can only do this a few times before the noise stops. The noise appears to come back each time I drive the car so I am guessing it has something to do with the suspension in the rear or some other component. The complete rear strut assembly/link ends were replaced not too long ago.

 

[RedBaron]

That IS surprising. I wouldn't've thought a loose locknut would allow noise. Hmmm.