Rear Differential Failing - Warranty Issues

[Jnclem]

I thought I would see what advice anyone might have about dealing with Mazda on a warranty issue. I have a 2017 CX 5 that has developed a serious problem with the rear differential. It began making noise about 10 days ago, and has quickly gotten worse. I was finally able to get it into my local mechanic, and as I suspected it is the rear dif making the noise. The car has 45,000 miles on it, so it still has the drivetrain warranty in place.

I've had the vehicle just a little over a year. The fluids were checked by Mazda before I bought it, and again by my local guy after I got it home. The rear dif at that time was full and the oil looked great. Now it is still full, no leaks, but the oil is dark and metallic. I purchased the car at a dealership that is nearly 4 hours away from me, and over two mountain passes. That is my nearest Mazda dealership.

So far, they are saying that I will have to have the car towed over there at my own expense, and they won't give me any indication of how long it might have to be there. They have to do their own analysis, and I get that, but they won't even give me a clue as to whether they can even get a differential for it. I was told they might just do a reseal - the differential doesn't leak a drop of oil so...

I tried calling Mazda's customer line, but I'm not getting an answer. If they are on the east coast they are probably closed. I guess my question is, what is the best course of action with getting warranty service from Mazda? I really don't know how good the dealership I bought the car from is. Should I be looking elsewhere? The service guy I spoke to today was little help, and acted like I was a problem for him.

Any advice?

 

[dunhillmc]

Maybe try calling Mazda Roadside Assistance. They're supposed to tow you to the nearest Mazda dealer. They recently changed from it being in effect for the length of the powertrain warranty to being in effect for only the length of the bumper-to-bumper warranty, but your 2017 should be grandfathered in

 

[yrwei52]

I thought I would see what advice anyone might have about dealing with Mazda on a warranty issue. I have a 2017 CX 5 that has developed a serious problem with the rear differential. It began making noise about 10 days ago, and has quickly gotten worse. I was finally able to get it into my local mechanic, and as I suspected it is the rear dif making the noise. The car has 45,000 miles on it, so it still has the drivetrain warranty in place.

I've had the vehicle just a little over a year. The fluids were checked by Mazda before I bought it, and again by my local guy after I got it home. The rear dif at that time was full and the oil looked great. Now it is still full, no leaks, but the oil is dark and metallic. I purchased the car at a dealership that is nearly 4 hours away from me, and over two mountain passes. That is my nearest Mazda dealership.

So far, they are saying that I will have to have the car towed over there at my own expense, and they won't give me any indication of how long it might have to be there. They have to do their own analysis, and I get that, but they won't even give me a clue as to whether they can even get a differential for it. I was told they might just do a reseal - the differential doesn't leak a drop of oil so...

I tried calling Mazda's customer line, but I'm not getting an answer. If they are on the east coast they are probably closed. I guess my question is, what is the best course of action with getting warranty service from Mazda? I really don't know how good the dealership I bought the car from is. Should I be looking elsewhere? The service guy I spoke to today was little help, and acted like I was a problem for him.

Any advice?

Have your 2017 CX-5 ever run through the deep water? The water is pretty easy to get into the rear differential which will contaminate the gear oil and cause rust inside. That’s why Mazda says “If this component has been submerged in water, the oil should be replaced.” on front transfer case and rear differential. And you have to use OEM Mazda gear oil SG1, not any other gear oil for the gear oil replacement.

In your case you might have to gamble it a bit by trucking or towing your CX-5 to the nearest Mazda dealer (which can be expensive) for warranty service. The risk is if the dealer found any water in the differential oil, they may report it to Mazda North American Operations who might deny the warranty coverage. The best bet is to take your CX-5 to the Mazda dealer where you purchased it; at least they may treat you better from you previous business.

If you know you’d run through the deep water, you may consider getting a used rear differential from a salvage yard such as LKQ and replace it at your own cost locally. This can be cheaper than in case MNAO denying the warranty after you sending the CX-5 to the dealer and you got stuck there.

 

[yrwei52]

Maybe try calling Mazda Roadside Assistance. They're supposed to tow you to the nearest Mazda dealer. They recently changed from it being in effect for the length of the powertrain warranty to being in effect for only the length of the bumper-to-bumper warranty, but your 2017 should be grandfathered in

Free Mazda Roadside Assistance is only available under 3-year / 36,000-mile new car warranty (including my 2016 CX-5), unless OP bought his used 2017 CX-5 with CPO warranty. The free Emergency Roadside Assistance is available for as long as 7-year / 100,000-mile CPO powertrain warranty.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

I thought I would see what advice anyone might have about dealing with Mazda on a warranty issue. I have a 2017 CX 5 that has developed a serious problem with the rear differential. It began making noise about 10 days ago, and has quickly gotten worse. I was finally able to get it into my local mechanic, and as I suspected it is the rear dif making the noise. The car has 45,000 miles on it, so it still has the drivetrain warranty in place.

I've had the vehicle just a little over a year. The fluids were checked by Mazda before I bought it, and again by my local guy after I got it home. The rear dif at that time was full and the oil looked great. Now it is still full, no leaks, but the oil is dark and metallic. I purchased the car at a dealership that is nearly 4 hours away from me, and over two mountain passes. That is my nearest Mazda dealership.

So far, they are saying that I will have to have the car towed over there at my own expense, and they won't give me any indication of how long it might have to be there. They have to do their own analysis, and I get that, but they won't even give me a clue as to whether they can even get a differential for it. I was told they might just do a reseal - the differential doesn't leak a drop of oil so...

I tried calling Mazda's customer line, but I'm not getting an answer. If they are on the east coast they are probably closed. I guess my question is, what is the best course of action with getting warranty service from Mazda? I really don't know how good the dealership I bought the car from is. Should I be looking elsewhere? The service guy I spoke to today was little help, and acted like I was a problem for him.

Any advice?

Did you buy it at that Mazda dealership?

Did they give you a cpo warranty?

Did they provide the paperwork of all maintenance(including fluid changes) and repairs done to the vehicle prior to you buying it?

They should have provide this paperwork to you. And you can see if they changed the fluid before the sale which means they were aware of the potential problem before- hand. If they didn't give you paperwork, you should attempt to get it.

Also did you check the Carfax? If not, check it now.

Did you drive it through deep water?

It's possible the last owner ran it through streams and ruined the differential and they(prior owner) or the dealership just changed the fluid and then sold it?

Like yrwei mentioned, a salvaged differential and local mechanic might be your best bet.

Some salvage yards check the power/drive trains and guarantee their engines, transmissions and differentials, etc.for limited time(90 or 180 days...usually long enough to see if there is a problem) and the parts are relatively cost effective.

Also, if the dealership changed the fluid prior to sale and it went bad that quick, then you could also pursue :
*Talk to dealership and see if can work out first.
1. Mazda corporate
2. Better business bureau
3. Your local tv station
4. Any fed/state regulatory agencies
5. The attorney route to try and get them to comply. With attorneys fees though, might be cheaper to just get the salvaged differential.
You will need to do cost-benefit.

Also, if no record of a fluid change before your purchase and fluid looked good before you bought it, it will be assumed you ruined the drivetrain and will be an uphill battle, especially if they find water in there now.

Updated:

Just wondering what made you and your mechanic check the differential fluid before purchase? Did you have a concern then? Even I and my mechanic didn't think of doing that and checking the diff fluids.

 

[yrwei52]

Here are some info on used rear differential:

Engines, transfer cases and transmission all over aftermarket.. used differentials unicorns. That's a bad sign and considering the TSB I'm not surprise. Rear diff going on a fwd bias.. theres a reason they redesigned it, and then again for the 2017s

New diff came in, off aearly build 2016 and the casted model no. is the revised version.

no I used some place from CO because the LKQ yards all wanted 180-280 for freight shipping, and I couldn't find any LKQ listing for one on ebay (LKQ listings on ebay are usually free shipping). Paid like 430 shipped for it. There aren't a lot of these used floating around on the net

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Free Mazda Roadside Assistance is only available under 3-year / 36,000-mile new car warranty (including my 2016 CX-5), unless OP bought his used 2017 CX-5 with CPO warranty. The free Emergency Roadside Assistance is available for as long as 7-year / 100,000-mile CPO powertrain warranty.

That changed too. I believe my 2018 cpo has 7 year/ 84k powertrain...will need to double-check paperwork.

 

[Jnclem]

Have your 2017 CX-5 ever run through the deep water? The water is pretty easy to get into the rear differential which will contaminate the gear oil and cause rust inside. That’s why Mazda says “If this component has been submerged in water, the oil should be replaced.” on front transfer case and rear differential. And you have to use OEM Mazda gear oil SG1, not any other gear oil for the gear oil replacement.

In your case you might have to gamble it a bit by trucking or towing your CX-5 to the nearest Mazda dealer (which can be expensive) for warranty service. The risk is if the dealer found any water in the differential oil, they may report it to Mazda North American Operations who might deny the warranty coverage. The best bet is to take your CX-5 to the Mazda dealer where you purchased it; at least they may treat you better from you previous business.

If you know you’d run through the deep water, you may consider getting a used rear differential from a salvage yard such as LKQ and replace it at your own cost locally. This can be cheaper than in case MNAO denying the warranty after you sending the CX-5 to the dealer and you got stuck there.

It’s never been through any deep water since I’ve owned it. It had one previous owner, but supposedly it was checked and serviced by the dealership that I bought it from before my purchase. This is the same dealer that will give me no information, not even tell me if they can get parts if needed, until I take it over there.

 

[Jnclem]

Did you buy it at that Mazda dealership?

Did they give you a cpo warranty?

Did they provide the paperwork of all maintenance(including fluid changes) and repairs done to the vehicle prior to you buying it?

They should have provide this paperwork to you. And you can see if they changed the fluid before the sale which means they were aware of the potential problem before- hand. If they didn't give you paperwork, you should attempt to get it.

Also did you check the Carfax? If not, check it now.

Did you drive it through deep water?

It's possible the last owner ran it through streams and ruined the differential and they(prior owner) or the dealership just changed the fluid and then sold it?

Like yrwei mentioned, a salvaged differential and local mechanic might be your best bet.

Some salvage yards check the power/drive trains and guarantee their engines, transmissions and differentials, etc.for limited time(90 or 180 days...usually long enough to see if there is a problem) and the parts are relatively cost effective.

Also, if the dealership changed the fluid prior to sale and it went bad that quick, then you could also pursue :
*Talk to dealership and see if can work out first.
1. Mazda corporate
2. Better business bureau
3. Your local tv station
4. Any fed/state regulatory agencies
5. The attorney route to try and get them to comply. With attorneys fees though, might be cheaper to just get the salvaged differential.
You will need to do cost-benefit.

Also, if no record of a fluid change before your purchase and fluid looked good before you bought it, it will be assumed you ruined the drivetrain and will be an uphill battle, especially if they find water in there now.

Updated:

Just wondering what made you and your mechanic check the differential fluid before purchase? Did you have a concern then? Even I and my mechanic didn't think of doing that and checking the diff fluids.

I had it checked after the purchase, not before. The reason I did it was because I trust my mechanic more than a dealership, and I wanted to know it was full and clean. This forum is full of reports of vehicles coming from dealers with low transmission and differential fluids. I had no indication there was a problem.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

I had it checked after the purchase, not before. The reason I did it was because I trust my mechanic more than a dealership, and I wanted to know it was full and clean. This forum is full of reports of vehicles coming from dealers with low transmission and differential fluids. I had no indication there was a problem.

Regardless of whether a cpo vehicle or not, they should have provided you with the service invoice for maintenance service and repair work done prior to sale. That would help narrow the issue down to whether they knew or not. It's quite possible the prior owner changed the fluid immediately before trading it in.

Or the differential just failed all of a sudden ...possible but unlikely. I've never had one fail like that or known anyone that had one fail. Saw some 15 year old engine fails, and 15 year old tranny fails but never a 5 year old diff fail. Very unusual.

Imo, more than likely there was water damage prior or someone changed and put in the wrong oil. Also, driving on mismatched size tires or heavy towing could have caused some damage.

It could very well be a legitimate defective differential but you may never know.

What do you mean by dark?

Does the fluid look more like chocolate milk or like really dark black/dirty motor oil?

Is it dark amber brown or grayish?

Does it smell burnt?

What did your mechanic think?
Did he have any opinion on the matter?
Your local mechanic should be guiding you on these issues.

You need to have your ducks in a row before you take it in for warranty repair because ime, they may try to deny it's a warranty issue.

Do you have triple A? You could take it in and if they fix it, great, but if they deny warranty repair, you could always have it towed back home. Check the triple a tow radius ...I think it may be 100 miles.

The fact they are being difficult means they could possibly have known about it... But you have no proof of any wrongdoing so you can't be accusatory and they may have very well not known.

Or it could truly be defective and they may fix it under warranty without any hassle.

Lastly if they are only going to do a drain and refill, maybe you tell them no... and instead go to your indie and have him do it and get a sample. See if you can get the differential fluid tested by Blackstone or other testing lab. There are other members on forum more knowledgeable about testing than me and maybe they can recommend who will test diff fluid.

You need to weigh pros and cons of whether you trust them (dealership) to drain and refill the diff. and truly be honest about the cause of the failure...they're going to evaluate the fluid as well. Do you trust them to provide you with the honest assessment?

Maybe get it on record with Mazda corporate about the dark metallic fluid and sounds before you do anything else.

It seems some members have good experiences with dealers and warranty work. And Mazda may treat you right. It's to new for me to know so maybe let the seasoned Mazda owners guide you.

 

[yrwei52]

It’s never been through any deep water since I’ve owned it. It had one previous owner, but supposedly it was checked and serviced by the dealership that I bought it from before my purchase. This is the same dealer that will give me no information, not even tell me if they can get parts if needed, until I take it over there.

If you don’t feel the problem is caused by you, I’d suggest to try following:

Call Customer Experience Center, Mazda North American Operations and explain the situation. They are at Irvine (LA), CA, and the hours are from 6:00AM ~ 3:00PM PST. Ask them if you can “drive” to the nearest Mazda dealer as the towing just too expensive. And ask them for any helps such as free towing and a loaner car while your CX-5 is in warranty service. Looking back, I’d just drive to the Mazda dealer where they sold the car without calling them at front, and just ask them to check the noise.

There’re quite a few TSBs to CX-5’s rear differential including the input bearing and mount bushing noises. But most design flaws on rear differential have been fixed on gen-2 CX-5. Have you ever got the “4WD” warning light in dash?

I feel confident in fluid I am using.

These potential rear diff design flaws below are what I am more concerned with failing

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10145249-9999.pdf

Rattle / Chatter Noise From Rear Differential - 2013-2016 Mazda CX-5

2013-2016 CX-5 AWD - RATTLE / CHATTER NOISE FROM REAR DIFFERENTIAL

mazda.oemdtc.com

Mazda TSB 03-001-16-3122 — 2014 CX-5 | CarComplaints.com

Mazda TSB 03-001-16-3122: Technical Service Bulletin for the 2014 Mazda CX-5.

www.carcomplaints.com

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/MC-10185825-9999.pdf

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/MC-10186908-9999.pdf

Your 2017 CX-5 has only 45,000 miles, and a year ago when you bought it the differential oil was fine but now the oil is dark and metallic. Like Jack Rabbit, I also suspect the previous owner might have changed the gear oil due to water intrusion but the damage had done. The reason? The factory fill has always been “low” at 0.37 quart for real differential on 2017 CX-5, and any gear lube change would make it becoming “full” at the brim of filler hole which takes 0.75 quart of gear lube. Of course the damage could also be caused by wrong gear oil (didn’t use specified but expensive OEM SG1) been put in during the lube change.

You still didn’t say if your CX-5 comes with a CPO warranty. Check with your paperwork to verify. If you do, that would put you in much better situation.

 

[Jnclem]

Regardless of whether a cpo vehicle or not, they should have provided you with the service invoice for maintenance service and repair work done prior to sale. That would help narrow the issue down to whether they knew or not. It's quite possible the prior owner changed the fluid immediately before trading it in.

Or the differential just failed all of a sudden ...possible but unlikely. I've never had one fail like that or known anyone that had one fail. Saw some 15 year old engine fails, and 15 year old tranny fails but never a 5 year old diff fail. Very unusual.

Imo, more than likely there was water damage prior or someone changed and put in the wrong oil. Also, driving on mismatched size tires or heavy towing could have caused some damage.

It could very well be a legitimate defective differential but you may never know.

What do you mean by dark?

Does the fluid look more like chocolate milk or like really dark black/dirty motor oil?

Is it dark amber brown or grayish?

Does it smell burnt?

What did your mechanic think?
Did he have any opinion on the matter?
Your local mechanic should be guiding you on these issues.

You need to have your ducks in a row before you take it in for warranty repair because ime, they may try to deny it's a warranty issue.

Do you have triple A? You could take it in and if they fix it, great, but if they deny warranty repair, you could always have it towed back home. Check the triple a tow radius ...I think it may be 100 miles.

The fact they are being difficult means they could possibly have known about it... But you have no proof of any wrongdoing so you can't be accusatory and they may have very well not known.

Or it could truly be defective and they may fix it under warranty without any hassle.

Lastly if they are only going to do a drain and refill, maybe you tell them no... and instead go to your indie and have him do it and get a sample. See if you can get the differential fluid tested by Blackstone or other testing lab. There are other members on forum more knowledgeable about testing than me and maybe they can recommend who will test diff fluid.

You need to weigh pros and cons of whether you trust them (dealership) to drain and refill the diff. and truly be honest about the cause of the failure...they're going to evaluate the fluid as well. Do you trust them to provide you with the honest assessment?

Maybe get it on record with Mazda corporate about the dark metallic fluid and sounds before you do anything else.

It seems some members have good experiences with dealers and warranty work. And Mazda may treat you right. It's to new for me to know so maybe let the seasoned Mazda owners guide you.

My local shop is very good. We are in a small town and reputation is make or break for these guys. I'm going to talk to him again today, but if it had been chocolate milk, he would have said so. Dark meant probably burnt, and metallic means something inside is coming apart. If you’ve seen oil where a bearing is disintegrating, it has a metallic sheen to it from metal in suspension. I was thinking I might want them to get a sample.

bottom line, I’m either going to have to trust the dealership or not. It’s going to be a risk taking it to them, but I probably will. I’m not used to dealing with dealerships. This is the first car I’ve bought from a dealership, and hopefully the last.

I’ve never heard of a rear differential going that fast either. Anything is possible these days I guess. The car hasn’t been abused in any way since I’ve had it, but I have very little information about the previous owner. I’m going to try to get all the original paperwork sent to me today. I really don’t remember what all was checked before the sale. It was a long list. I believe all fluids were on it, but I don’t have it anymore.

 

[Jnclem]

If you don’t feel the problem is caused by you, I’d suggest to try following:

Call Customer Experience Center, Mazda North American Operations and explain the situation. They are at Irvine (LA), CA, and the hours are from 6:00AM ~ 3:00PM PST. Ask them if you can “drive” to the nearest Mazda dealer as the towing just too expensive. And ask them for any helps such as free towing and a loaner car while your CX-5 is in warranty service. Looking back, I’d just drive to the Mazda dealer where they sold the car without calling them at front, and just ask them to check the noise.

There’re quite a few TSBs to CX-5’s rear differential including the input bearing and mount bushing noises. But most design flaws on rear differential have been fixed on gen-2 CX-5. Have you ever got the “4WD” warning light in dash?



Your 2017 CX-5 has only 45,000 miles, and a year ago when you bought it the differential oil was fine but now the oil is dark and metallic. Like Jack Rabbit, I also suspect the previous owner might have changed the gear oil due to water intrusion but the damage had done. The reason? The factory fill has always been “low” at 0.37 quart for real differential on 2017 CX-5, and any gear lube change would make it becoming “full” at the brim of filler hole which takes 0.75 quart of gear lube. Of course the damage could also be caused by wrong gear oil (didn’t use specified but expensive OEM SG1) been put in during the lube change.

You still didn’t say if your CX-5 comes with a CPO warranty. Check with your paperwork to verify. If you do, that would put you in much better situation.

You pretty much stated my plan for now. I’m going to call Big Mazda today and check into whether they want me to try to drive it over there, and if they will pick it up on the road if it fails. This is the dealer that I bought it from, and also the “nearest.” In Colorado, distances can be deceiving. For example, On an Apple Computer warranty, the will tell me that the nearest service center is only 40 miles away in Aspen. Well, that’s true, in the summer, if you have a very high clearance 4wd vehicle. It will take several hours to get there on that route over 12,000’ 4wd passes.

To get to this dealer I have to cross two substantial paved passes, and it’s December, so you never know about the weather. It’s a 4 hour drive on dry pavement in good weather. However, I suspect I can drive it over there, I just want to be covered in case the car breaks down.

I am also going to try to have my original paperwork emailed to me today so I can check. I believe it was a CPO car, but I can’t find the paperwork from it at this point.

We keep our cars for a very long time, so I think either way we will go with a new differential, rather than a salvage, especially if a lot of the salvages are from earlier, versions that had so many problems.

I’ve got a lot of calls to make about all this today, and should know more by this evening.

 

[Jnclem]

They’re quite a few TSBs to CX-5’s rear differential including the input bearing and mount bushing noises. But most design flaws on rear differential have been fixed on gen-2 CX-5. Have you ever got the “4WD” warning light in dash?

Never any warning light.

 

[Jnclem]

Mazda USA says that they will transport the car under Roadside Assistance to "the nearest dealer," which is actually another branch of the same dealership in the same city. So hopefully, they will move it across town for me. I haven't been able to speak to the service department at the dealership yet. I've left a number of messages now.

Mazda USA says that the Roadside Assistance extends to the end of the drivetrain warranty. I had to call twice, and one of the representatives said it was a one time use roadside assistance, the other didn't say that, but didn't mention it at all. Either way, getting it over there is the issue, getting back after a repair is no problem.

So far, so good.

 

[yrwei52]

Mazda USA says that they will transport the car under Roadside Assistance to "the nearest dealer," which is actually another branch of the same dealership in the same city. So hopefully, they will move it across town for me. I haven't been able to speak to the service department at the dealership yet. I've left a number of messages now.

Mazda USA says that the Roadside Assistance extends to the end of the drivetrain warranty. I had to call twice, and one of the representatives said it was a one time use roadside assistance, the other didn't say that, but didn't mention it at all. Either way, getting it over there is the issue, getting back after a repair is no problem.

So far, so good.

That’s a great news!

 

[Jnclem]

48 hours and Roadside has yet to find anyone to take the job. Sure glad my car isn’t sitting by the road someplace. This is my first time dealing with roadside assistance. Seems pretty unreliable in any true emergency outside of a major metro area.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

48 hours and Roadside has yet to find anyone to take the job. Sure glad my car isn’t sitting by the road someplace. This is my first time dealing with roadside assistance. Seems pretty unreliable in any true emergency outside of a major metro area.

Apparently they're not paying enough.

Triple A would probably find someone.

Glad me kept me triple A subscription. Almost cancelled when they told me about the free road assistance.

Sure hope they'd offer to pay more in an emergency situation like you're stuck with family in the freezing cold.

 

[ceric]

I heard that AAA pays the most to tow trucks.
Hence, they respond to AAA call with priority.
Before my kids went to colleges, I gave them AAA memberships.
$91 for me, and 50% off each kid, annually.
100-mile range of towing.

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

I maintain the AAA RV so they will also tow any trailer as well

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