Towing teardrop camper with a auto tranny
- Thread starter collinjx
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Thanks for the advice. Was planning to install a transmission cooler for towing. May opt to find a small sedan with a manual transmission for towing.
Wishmaster
Member
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- 07 Galaxy Gray AT Mazda5 GT
It's too much weight for North American regulators. Your tranny would be just fine, in the UK the Mazda5 is rated to tow up to 1323 lbs. Here are the specs from the UK Mazda 5 regarding towing (same car, smaller engines, same tranny):
Curb weight (incl a 165 lb person): Gas - 3275, Diesel - 3285
Permitted Gross Vehicle Weight, Total: Gas - 4685, Diesel - 4685
Permitted Gross Vehicle Weight, Front / Rear: Gas - 2161 / 2524, Diesel - 2150 / 2535
Permitted Axle Load, Front / Rear: Gas - 2250 / 2646, Diesel - 2250 / 2657
Towing Limit* Unbraked: Gas - 1323, Diesel - 1323
Towing Limit* Braked: Gas - 2646, Diesel - 2646
Maximum Roof Load: Gas - 165, Diesel - 165
But what you need to be concerned about is staying legal and not voiding your insurance which, because the Mazda5 is not rated for towing in North America, means you have to add the weight of that camper to your Gross Vehicle Weight, and then ensure you're staying under the total Gross Vehicle Weight Restriction for the Mazda5.
North American specs are:
curb weight = 3457lbs, GVWR = 4572 lbs, which gives you about 1115 lbs for your camper/trailer, passengers and cargo... looks like your trailer puts you over the limit, never-mind anything else. Also a reminder... the same goes for any vehicle in North America, if it is not rated for towing and does not have a stated Towing Limit in addition to your GVWR, you could be voiding your insurance if everything together weighs more than its GVWR, and you could be personally liable if anything happened... check with your own insurance company.
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Seems not many members used their 5's for towing small campers. I was hoping to read more real world towing experiences. I been searching the web about towing with the Mazda 5. Towing a light camper with a manual wouldn't be a problem. I haven't been able to find much about towing with a auto. Thanks for the reply.
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- 2008 Mazda5 Touring
I was going to tow a small popup with our 5 before we found a nice toy hauler that the Odyssey can handle.
Put the biggest ATF cooler on it that you can, keep your speeds below the speed limits and you'll be fine.
Put the biggest ATF cooler on it that you can, keep your speeds below the speed limits and you'll be fine.
Wishmaster
Member
- :
- 07 Galaxy Gray AT Mazda5 GT
Ya, I think it's because people are worried about the potential insurance and warranty issues. The vehicle can defiantly handle it as pointed out by Mazda UK's own numbers. For a couple years in a row I towed a small '82 tent trailer (under 1000 lbs) for summer camping with my 5. This year we switched to a huge 10 person, 2 room tent. This allowed me to switch to towing a small (4x5) covered utility trailer and I was able to keep my weights way down compared with towing the tent trailer.
I also use my utility trailer for dump runs, soil, gravel, bark mulch, etc. The 5 does a great job towing. You don't need a tranny cooler, but you can for peace of mind sake, use the manual mode for the shifter and shift in a more "manual" style.. ie - get up to speed for the next gear, take your foot off the gas (coasting), then shift. I also use a cushioned ball mount (http://www.etrailer.com/Ball-Mounts/Convert-A-Ball/AMSC2.html), it's not needed but I feel it would help take some stress out of the drive-line in emergency situations.
There are a number of threads on this forum about towing and I've posted in a number of them... this one covers pretty much everything: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/show...railer-Hitch&p=6372696&highlight=#post6372696
Thanks for the forum links. In a few weeks I will be using my neighbor's camper (a small pop up he pulls be hide his Goldwing) on a trip out west. Total weight for me, the wife, camper, and gear should be below 1000 lb. Just finish adding a transmission cooler and I'm looking forward to the trip.
Not sure were to post this? When I removed the bumper cover to add the transmission cooler I found a loose male plug hanging down close to the windshield washer reservoir. I Couldn't find anywhere to terminate the loose plug. The head light, high beam, turn signal, fog light, windshield washer, horn all work. Anyone know what this plug is for?
Wishmaster
Member
- :
- 07 Galaxy Gray AT Mazda5 GT
Weird... don't recognize it. But then again not sure I would. Was the 5 used when you bought it? Could have been from something aftermarket that was removed. maybe post it in the Accessories and Appearance section - http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?236-Mazda5-Accessories-amp-Appearance
Have fun towing!
People still saying you can tow with the M5 (smash)
Imaging the weight of 4 people, all the gear for a few days plus the weight of the trailer. It would be insane and pure stupidity at the same time.
I have done many road trips in the 5, CX-5 and a Ram 1500 Hemi. We actually just got back from a road trip last week: 2 adults, 2 kids, 16 cu ft. roof box, 2 bikes and near packed cargo area. I could feel the weight and fairly low in the back just from that, imagine a trailer. On the road trip i saw 3 trailers on the side of the road with tickets: due to being overloaded they owners had to dump their trailer or slide-in camper. It's all about safety of you and others.
1. Manual clearly states not to tow with the 5.
2. Maybe the tranny can handle a small amount of weight however, the way the car itself can handle the weight on hills and mountain passes (accending and decending) is not safe.
3. Get a proper towing vehicle.
Imaging the weight of 4 people, all the gear for a few days plus the weight of the trailer. It would be insane and pure stupidity at the same time.
I have done many road trips in the 5, CX-5 and a Ram 1500 Hemi. We actually just got back from a road trip last week: 2 adults, 2 kids, 16 cu ft. roof box, 2 bikes and near packed cargo area. I could feel the weight and fairly low in the back just from that, imagine a trailer. On the road trip i saw 3 trailers on the side of the road with tickets: due to being overloaded they owners had to dump their trailer or slide-in camper. It's all about safety of you and others.
1. Manual clearly states not to tow with the 5.
2. Maybe the tranny can handle a small amount of weight however, the way the car itself can handle the weight on hills and mountain passes (accending and decending) is not safe.
3. Get a proper towing vehicle.
Wishmaster
Member
- :
- 07 Galaxy Gray AT Mazda5 GT
Not sure how many times I need to repeat these facts, but I'll go through once again and try and spell things out a little more clearly:
- The exact same Mazda5 sold in the UK with smaller engine choices is rated to tow an additional 1323 lbs. So yes, the Mazda5 is totally, completely and fully capable of towing small weights, period. (bang)
- Mazda NA (North America) does not want to deal with the potential warranty issues caused by the general idiocy and lack of towing knowledge of most NA drivers, who, if they saw that the Mazda5 had a tow rating, would try and tow huge boats and campers over mountain passes. So, tow when your vehicle is outside of warranty if you are worried about breaking something while towing. This is still also unconfirmed as I have never heard of someone towing with their in-warranty, that is not rated for towing, while they were within that vehicle's GVWR, be denied a warranty claim.
- From an insurance, liability and safety standpoint, your manual has nothing to do with the law. Since the manufacturer has not rated the Mazda5 for towing in NA, it doesn't matter if you spread the weight over two or three axles you still can't exceed the GVWR. The GVWR is all you have to worry about. And if you stay within that, you are well within the Mazda5's capabilities.
- The NA Mazda5's GVWR is 4572 lbs. It's curb weight is 3389 lbs. You can tow and/or load your vehicle with a total of 1183 lbs of weight (in NA, this includes the weight of your trailer). That goes for anyone going on any road trip, weather you're towing part of your load and spreading some of the weight over a third axle (easier on your car) or piling all the weight inside and on top of your vehicle weighing it down and making it much more top heavy... you still cannot exceed the GVWR.
Examples:
- Camping: So for me when I go camping, I'll have 4 people 2 adults, 2 small kids ) in the car = 400 lbs, towing a small 4 x 4 utility trailer = 200 lbs, four bikes mounted on top of the roof of the trailer 100 lbs and all our gear distributed between the trailer and cargo area (which I can keep low so I can still see through the rear window because half our gear is in a low trailer) = 250 lbs (at the most)... equals a total of 950 lbs. I still have 233 lbs of excess capacity. Now whether you put this weight in your cargo area and on your roof or spread it out over another axle, the car is hauling the same amount of weight... except when you spread it out over 3 axles it's easier on your car as the car is bearing less weight and instead pulling some of it.
- Dump runs, gravel, bark mulch, etc: Me = 180 lbs, my trailer = 200 lbs and it's load approx 200 to 600 lbs = max of approx 980 lbs, with approx 203 lbs of excess capacity. This is the same thing a loading your car up with gear to go camping... except it's not, it's actually easier on your vehicle because the tongue weight (weight from the trailer pushing on the hitch) is only, at the very, very max, with a class one hitch and a properly balanced trailer load, 150 lbs. It only has to pull the weight and not bear it. Vs all the weight loaded into the 5 where it's not only pulling the weight but also bearing it.
"I have done many road trips in the 5, CX-5 and a Ram 1500 Hemi" - Well now that you know a little more about towing, GVWRs and load bearing weights... whatever you drive or tow with hopefully you'll know to do some research first and tow safely... and stop perpetuating the stereotype that North Americans know nothing about towing, think that they can only tow with a truck and believe their car will self destruct if you attach a hitch.
"On the road trip i saw 3 trailers on the side of the road with tickets: due to being overloaded they owners had to dump their trailer or slide-in camper" - Great, you saw some idiots doing what idiots do, you'll probably see more. They went over their GVWR. What many dumbass drivers with trucks don't realize is that their truck is capable of towing (big camper) much much more than their payload (slide-in camper) is (generally). And again, if you exceed your GVWR or combined GVWR, it doesn't matter what you're driving, yes, you will be ******, and yes, you are a stupid asshole putting others lives at risk, and yes if you got in an accident and it was found you exceeded your GVWR your insurance could be void and you could be personally liable... it's quite simple stuff, if you know how to google, you can figure it out.
Happy towing everyone!!
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^--- this ---^
Another good point.
We were loaded for 2 weeks; 16 cubic foot roof box held the light stuff and was packed, 2 adults, 2 kids, cargo area behind 2nd row was full. The 5 could not handle even a tiny 700lbs Boler trailer at that rate. While the 5 did the 1850KM trip fine through the Canadian Rockies it was in the slow lane, there was very little passing power depending on the length of the passing lane that came up.
Well, since we do a lot of camping and weekend trips we decided to buy a trailer. Something like a 1800 to 2100lbs (dry weight) travel trailer will do. Nothing huge, just enough to sleep 4, stove, fridge, microwave and storage. To do this we already traded in or 4 month old Mazda 5 for a 2014 Ford Edge AWD LTD (only has 126KM (73 miles?) on it!) with towing pack (factory hitch, wiring, anti-sway system, oil cooler) it can tow 3500lbs max. Enough for the above trailer, gear and us. A good 500lbs below max in this range is good.
Safe and Happy Towing.
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Another good point.
We were loaded for 2 weeks; 16 cubic foot roof box held the light stuff and was packed, 2 adults, 2 kids, cargo area behind 2nd row was full. The 5 could not handle even a tiny 700lbs Boler trailer at that rate. While the 5 did the 1850KM trip fine through the Canadian Rockies it was in the slow lane, there was very little passing power depending on the length of the passing lane that came up.
Well, since we do a lot of camping and weekend trips we decided to buy a trailer. Something like a 1800 to 2100lbs (dry weight) travel trailer will do. Nothing huge, just enough to sleep 4, stove, fridge, microwave and storage. To do this we already traded in or 4 month old Mazda 5 for a 2014 Ford Edge AWD LTD (only has 126KM (73 miles?) on it!) with towing pack (factory hitch, wiring, anti-sway system, oil cooler) it can tow 3500lbs max. Enough for the above trailer, gear and us. A good 500lbs below max in this range is good.
Safe and Happy Towing.
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Wishmaster
Member
- :
- 07 Galaxy Gray AT Mazda5 GT
Holy s*** people... so then never put 4 or 5 people in your car and some gear in the back and maybe some stuff in a roof box. Because it's exactly the same thing... but worse because you're not distributing any weight over a third axle.
Why am I even trying... you know what, it's a good thing North American manufacturers tell us not to tow with our cars, because most of us have s*** for brains and can't even do simple math. Everyone please buy heavy duty trucks if you need to go on a larger than usual grocery run.
Wishmaster
Member
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- 07 Galaxy Gray AT Mazda5 GT
When you towed with your 5 you were actually severely overweight and totally illegal:
- 2 adult, 2 kids = 430 lbs
- Roof box full of light stuff = 100 lbs
- Cargo area packed = 400 lbs (being generous here...)
Guess what, that equals 930 lbs, leaving you with just 253 lbs left to stay under your GVWR... then you added a god damn 700 lb trailer on top of that??!! You were actually 447 lbs overweight and if you were in an accident, it's very likely your insurance would have been void.
This is why North American Manufacturers just blanket tell us not to tow, because most of us have no idea what we're doing and put people's lives at risk.
And:
Ford Edge AWD LTD with towing = $33,000 (new)
Mazda5 Grand Touring = $25,000 (new)
$8000 difference... very different vehicle with very different capabilities. The Edge is generally the kind of vehicle Mazda5 owners are trying to avoid owning.
I'm not saying you can tow huge amounts with a 5, yes, of course, if you want to be able to tow a camper, you can't do that with a 5, obviously. But what those of us who are towing with our 5's are saying, and trying to avoid, is going out and spending money on an SUV when the 5 can easily handle light loads and/or light towing.
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Wishmaster
Member
- :
- 07 Galaxy Gray AT Mazda5 GT
Haha, thanks Davicho... I think this will officially be my last post regarding towing. If people don't get it by now... darwin will take care of them ;-)
s*** for brains? Wow, you're a classy guy.
Obviously, if you're not towing with a loaded out vehicle it would be different.
Talk about s*** for brains. Wow.
Actually, I never said I towed with the 5. I have been advocating never to tow with the 5 at all, lol. As for the hitch, Mazda themselves and local shops (like Burnaby Hitch) only have a tiny 1 1/4" hitch for the 5, which I would Never tow with, regardless of vehicle. I was saying I was fully loaded and "The 5 could not handle even a tiny 700lbs Boler trailer at that rate." comment was; could you imagine a light Boler at the same time? I had a 2" hitch on a previous CX-5 with my Thule Helium bike rack, the bikes never swayed. On the 5, there was a lot on flex on the 1 1/4" hitch with just 75lbs on it!
As for the trip we went on, just to be clear;
16cu ft roof box: 4 folding chairs, 4 sleeping bags, a 14x14 shelter, inflatable mattress = just under 70lbs.
2 adults = 300lbs
2 kids = 150lbs
gear behind the 2nd row; clothes, tent, 2 tarps, cooking gear, portable battery and misc = 300-350lbs
2 bikes + Thule helium, 25lbs each approx. = 75lbs
total approx 910lbs.
My Edge is the 3.5L V6 AWD Limited which can tow 3500lbs max. with the factory tow package. Without the factory tow pack it is limited to 2000lbs. This specific towing pack includes the hitch, wiring, oil cooler, heavy duty radiator and fan and anti-sway control. It's cost was $37,400 after Ford's rebates and incentives. I'm definitely not comparing the 5 to the Edge, there is no comparison, whatsoever.
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