Question on the AWD system

[multimut]

Only when people misstate things like you did.

I'm the only one here who has stated relevant facts, yet you inexplicably call me out for having "strong opinions".

While at the same time, another poster provided a very strong opinion that AWD is "far better" for performance, while providing absolutely no evidence to back it up.

No you do have "strong opinions" and are very argumentative (not only in this thread but your entire post history). Maybe you should read the article that interviews Dave Coleman and the article by ExtremeTech that I linked to see if it answers OP question. OP seems to think he has the answer.

Where's the Ignore button.

 

[sm1ke]

Rein it back fellas. We are all entitled to our opinions. OP has received plenty of info from many different sources, some from instrumented testing, and some real-world experience from other drivers. Both are valuable, depending on context.

 

[mazdadude]

It's an eternal debate and it's why Mazda offers the front-wheel drive still.

 

[sm1ke]

Where's the Ignore button.

Hi multi, if you want to ignore a user, click on their profile name on the left and hit the Ignore button. You can manage your ignored user list from your profile page, in case you want to "un-ignore" them in order to see their posts again.

 

[bluegrass]

Strange that people would get all-wheel drives then, I guess it's all a big sham. You might want to tell the many Performance car makers that their all wheel drive systems are not worth it.

I would love to see a side-by-side comparison of the two scientifically data base track test

No one is saying AWD is "a big sham." It can have some advantages in some situations.
However, the OP is asking about the advantages of a AWD CX-5 in dry weather spirited driving.

We are not talking about performance cars!
This is a 187 HP, tall SUV with skinny tires and a high center of gravity.

Do you really think an AWD CX-5 will go around a cloverleaf on-ramp (the exact scenario asked about) faster than a FWD version in dry weather? If anything, it will likely be slower, because it is carrying more mass.

 

[mazdadude]

No one is saying AWD is "a big sham." It can have some advantages in some situations.
However, the OP is asking about the advantages of a AWD CX-5 in dry weather spirited driving.

We are not talking about performance cars!
This is a 187 HP, tall SUV with skinny tires and a high center of gravity.

Do you really think an AWD CX-5 will go around a cloverleaf on-ramp (the exact scenario asked about) faster than a FWD version in dry weather? If anything, it will likely be slower, because it is carrying more mass.

So why would the all-wheel-drive help the performance cars and not an CUV

 

[multimut]

Hi multi, if you want to ignore a user, click on their profile name on the left and hit the Ignore button. You can manage your ignored user list from your profile page, in case you want to "un-ignore" them in order to see their posts again.

Thanks Mr. Moderator. I can see it works already! you are completely right, we are all entitled to our opinions. And for the most part, people are very civil and understand that. The ones that don't go on ignore (and on all the forums I've been on, this is only the second time I've had to use the Ignore button)..

 

[bluegrass]

So why would the all-wheel-drive help the performance cars and not an CUV

Generally speaking, performance cars have a much higher HP/LB ratio, much lower center of gravity, meatier tires, far different chassis tuning, ect.
They make more power than can be handled by one drive axle during high performance conditions, and can sometimes benefit from AWD.

The CX-5 simply does not make enough power, and does not have the chassis tuning required, to benefit from AWD during dry weather spirited driving.

Do you really not see the difference?

 

[multimut]

I would love to see a side-by-side comparison of the two scientifically data base track test

Mazdadude.
People have done testing at the track. Here a good one. Identical car, set up as AWD, FWD or RWD

Results in ideal conditions (dry):
#1 AWD
#2 RWD
#3 FWD

 

[mazdadude]

Generally speaking, performance cars have a much higher HP/LB ratio, much lower center of gravity, meatier tires, far different chassis tuning, ect.
They make more power than can be handled by one drive axle during high performance conditions, and can sometimes benefit from AWD.

The CX-5 simply does not make enough power, and does not have the chassis tuning required, to benefit from AWD during dry weather spirited driving.

Do you really not see the difference?

Yep huge difference, that's what after fwd cx5 #1, our last 2 CX-5 s have been awd.

 

[Unobtanium]

You're wrong...these are not my "strong opinions".
They are documented instrumented testing of AWD and FWD CX-5 by a third-party, which shows FWD to have better performance under the conditions the OP is asking about.

In fact, I'm the only one here who has cited independent facts/statistics.
Everyone claiming AWD is superior have cited nothing but opinions and use cases that are irrelevant to the OP's question.

I understand how the basic system works ( iSense, 200 times per second, blah, blah, blah) and that it's front wheel biased. But is it only powering one of the front wheels until the sense system tells it to do otherwise?

Also, are the any non-slip/non-rain/non-cold conditions such as hard cornering and acceleration (spirited corners or heavy acceleration on cloverleaf on-ramp) that would start sending any power to the rear?

False. We have addressed it directly. It will make the vehicle much more stable under acceleration mid corner. It does indeed "activate" for such occurrences.

Keep in mind that the newer models have "better software" and the AWD is even "better".

 

[bluegrass]

I would love to see a side-by-side comparison of the two scientifically data base track test.

Yep huge difference, that's what after fwd cx5 #1, our last 2 CX-5 s have been awd.

Do you know what skidpad testing is?
Here is a quick summary...
Skidpad is a circular track with fixed radius where cars are tested for maximum sustained lateral acceleration. High lateral acceleration (measured in meters per second squared or Gs - 1G = 9.8 m/s²) is indicative of high cornering capability and good handling characteristics in general.

We have this for the same model year CX-5 AWD and FWD...the numbers are identical!
This is as close of a scientific track test as you are going to get, and they show no advantage for AWD.

 

[bluegrass]

Mazdadude.
People have done testing at the track. Here a good one. Identical car, set up as AWD, FWD or RWD
Results in ideal conditions (dry):
#1 AWD
#2 RWD
#3 FWD

This is the kind of FAKE NEWS I am pushing back against.

The video posted by multimut is of someone playing a VIDEO GAME!!!!

 

[RedBaron]

Ye gods... all of you go get a room.

 

[velocityc6]

You clearly didn't read the OP's question...
He specifically asked about AWD in "non-slip/non-rain/non-cold conditions".
So off-roading, rain and snow are irrelevant to this discussion.

And I certainly wouldn't call the performance advantages I cited for the FWD version "tiny."

Regarding resale value, I would hope the AWD version commands higher resale, since it costs $1400 more upfront. You also need to include the added costs of sales tax, interest (if you are financing), maintenance and lower MPG.

The higher initial costs for a superior drivetrain setup are WELL worth the costs overall. A FWD only SUV is a undesirable model for much of the country and caters to a smaller market share.

Also I fail to see where the OP asked about any possible advantages of the FWD only model as the OP owns an AWD CX5

 

[DwightFrye]

I can only give some seat of the pants opinions regarding the AWD performance of my CX 5 GT Reserve. First off, I wouldn't even consider AWD in the non-turbo model. The extra HP is most welcome. I live in the mountains and we get snow several times a year. I have the standard Toyo A36 all season tires. The roads off the main highway to get to my house are very steep and winding with a lot of climbing and then descending over ridges and canyons. My CX 5 did well on the roads with a few inches of snow. When I put my foot into it on inclines to see how well the AWD system worked I could feel the rear tires slipping. I didn't turn the traction control off. Braking was a different story. I almost went into the trees when I approached my driveway going too fast and couldn't stop. But that is more of a tire and judgement error than an AWD issue.
On dry roads: Before I bought my CX 5 I owned a Nissan 370Z. It was a joy to drive up here in warm, dry conditions. Driving the CX 5 on the same roads and conditions, on flat or uphill stretches in a spirited manner surprised me at how well it handles for a 4300 lb high center of gravity SUV. Going downhill I quickly learned to take it easy as its mass and only relatively effective brakes can get you into trouble quickly.
So yes I would say that Mazda's iActive AWD system is pretty effective in spirited driving on dry roads given that the vehicle is not a light, low center of gravity vehicle.

 

[Unobtanium]

No one is saying AWD is "a big sham." It can have some advantages in some situations.
However, the OP is asking about the advantages of a AWD CX-5 in dry weather spirited driving.

We are not talking about performance cars!
This is a 187 HP, tall SUV with skinny tires and a high center of gravity.

Do you really think an AWD CX-5 will go around a cloverleaf on-ramp (the exact scenario asked about) faster than a FWD version in dry weather? If anything, it will likely be slower, because it is carrying more mass.

Yes, it WILL go around it quicker and faster. Why?

The weight difference is pretty minor, but the cx5 is a front heavy vehicle. With AWD, you are able to accelerate much harder without 100% of that being transmitted to the front tires. The friction circle "is a thing".

As a result, you can push the car closer to 50/50 dynamic distribution, as well as accelerate sooner and more vigorously through the apex, resulting in a much better corner exit event and higher average speed through the corner.


You're looking at skidpad circles and other more "isolated" numbers and likely are confused how cars with lower power to weight and lateral adhesion can still dominate technical tracks.

 

[mazdadude]

Do you know what skidpad testing is?
Here is a quick summary...
Skidpad is a circular track with fixed radius where cars are tested for maximum sustained lateral acceleration. High lateral acceleration (measured in meters per second squared or Gs - 1G = 9.8 m/s²) is indicative of high cornering capability and good handling characteristics in general.

We have this for the same model year CX-5 AWD and FWD...the numbers are identical!
This is as close of a scientific track test as you are going to get, and they show no advantage for AWD.

Do you know what skidpad testing is?
Here is a quick summary...
Skidpad is a circular track with fixed radius where cars are tested for maximum sustained lateral acceleration. High lateral acceleration (measured in meters per second squared or Gs - 1G = 9.8 m/s²) is indicative of high cornering capability and good handling characteristics in general.

We have this for the same model year CX-5 AWD and FWD...the numbers are identical!
This is as close of a scientific track test as you are going to get, and they show no advantage for AWD.

what year

I can only give some seat of the pants opinions regarding the AWD performance of my CX 5 GT Reserve. First off, I wouldn't even consider AWD in the non-turbo model. The extra HP is most welcome. I live in the mountains and we get snow several times a year. I have the standard Toyo A36 all season tires. The roads off the main highway to get to my house are very steep and winding with a lot of climbing and then descending over ridges and canyons. My CX 5 did well on the roads with a few inches of snow. When I put my foot into it on inclines to see how well the AWD system worked I could feel the rear tires slipping. I didn't turn the traction control off. Braking was a different story. I almost went into the trees when I approached my driveway going too fast and couldn't stop. But that is more of a tire and judgement error than an AWD issue.
On dry roads: Before I bought my CX 5 I owned a Nissan 370Z. It was a joy to drive up here in warm, dry conditions. Driving the CX 5 on the same roads and conditions, on flat or uphill stretches in a spirited manner surprised me at how well it handles for a 4300 lb high center of gravity SUV. Going downhill I quickly learned to take it easy as its mass and only relatively effective brakes can get you into trouble quickly.
So yes I would say that Mazda's iActive AWD system is pretty effective in spirited driving on dry roads given that the vehicle is not a light, low center of gravity vehicle.

Just as a little correction there, the first gen CX-5 actually weighs about 3200 to 3500 pounds . The 2nd gen weighs in 3500 to 3800 lbs. The number you're referring to is the maximum capacity fully loaded listed in the door jamb GVWR

 

[bluegrass]

The higher initial costs for a superior drivetrain setup are WELL worth the costs overall.

Also I fail to see where the OP asked about any possible advantages of the FWD only model as the OP owns an AWD CX5

How did you come to the conclusion that the AWD CX-5 is a "superior drivetrain setup" for the conditions asked about in the OP?
Can you offer any evidence, or is this just your opinion?

The OP asked what benefits AWD provides during spirited driving. I simply used FWD test data as a benchmark. Skidpad results indicate that AWD does not provide any benefit.

 

[Unobtanium]

How did you come to the conclusion that the AWD CX-5 is a "superior drivetrain setup" for the conditions asked about in the OP?
Can you offer any evidence, or is this just your opinion?

The OP asked what benefits AWD provides during spirited driving. I simply used FWD test data as a benchmark. Skidpad results indicate that AWD does not provide any benefit.

Skidpad results taken in isolation are worthless. They are achieved by driving round and round in a circle. Not exiting the circle. Not hitting an apex. Not corner entry/exit profile. DRIVING. IN. A. CIRCLE. If driving in a circle is the goal, then yes, the terminal velocity attainable with the FWD is going to be superior due to weight/tire contact patch. If driving on the track or road is the goal, the AWD will allow you to push the vehicle further.