Plugging my oil squirters

M

MazdaSpeed626

Member
:
Mazda 626 1998 5spd 2.0l FSDE
Soooooo, here is what has happened to my engine lately. I've got CP pistons and had been running them for a good while, melted one of them at the track on c16 and 21 lbs of boost with an unknowingly fried wideband....Much fun. After tearing the block down, turns out my pistons had broken 3 of the 4 oil squirters off....cool.

So after replacing the melted piston, i told the machinist(which is an extremely reputable shop here in town) i wanted the pistons filed down to make the oil squirters fit. He told me the reason they broke off was because they weren't positioned correctly....So i told him, fine, i'll let you assemble the entire bottom end and then you can position the oil squirters perfectly.

Well....long story short i took off my oil pan to fix a leak and found 2 broken oil squirters......that was a bad day indeed.

Needless to say i'm not putting new squirters in, so i've already removed all of the squirters(which was a huge b****) and am tapping the holes and plugging them. My question is what is the best way to clean out the shavings from the tap?

BTW, i've already pulled the engine and its on the stand, but still fully assembled minus the oil pan and sandwich plate.
 
I dunno, i maybe way off in left field with this, but if your telling me your melted one of your pistons before (yes even tho it was oh c16 gas and 21psi of boost) that should tell you that your pistons need cooling. So taking our the oil squirters (since i assume its there to cool the piston and lubrication unless i am wrong) is a bad thing no? I mean i understand theres alot of work and even cash but i mean do you really wanna take that risk?

I dunno just a thought man.
 
there's something definately wrong with the pistons you are using.
i've never heard of those things breaking just from normal use...

maybe the rods are too short?

there's definately something fishy here....
 
starscream2k1 said:
I dunno, i maybe way off in left field with this, but if your telling me your melted one of your pistons before (yes even tho it was oh c16 gas and 21psi of boost) that should tell you that your pistons need cooling. So taking our the oil squirters (since i assume its there to cool the piston and lubrication unless i am wrong) is a bad thing no? I mean i understand theres alot of work and even cash but i mean do you really wanna take that risk?

I dunno just a thought man.
Click to expand...

It was a unknowingly fried wideband controller. It was reading 1.5 AFR off from normal and i had no idea.....turns out that water had penetrated the seal at the sensor and caused a short, i know this cuz i took the wideband apart and the processor was melted.(warranty was voided so there was no use in trying to send it back) Apparently i'm pretty apt at melting things as you can tell....heh.

all i need to know is the best method to clean out metal shavings from the tap. the problem will be fixed by plugging the holes, there are people that have done this and been successful so theres no turning back now.

The rods are the standard size pauters.....the cp piston spec sheet shows the standard machine....i think its just faulty design on cp's part, but thats just me...I don't think they put in enough clearence to account for thermal expansion. If it were up to my i'd pull the whole engine back apart, file the pistons down like i had originally wanted to do and be done with it. But i'm sure as s*** not taking this engine back apart again....i've pulled the head 3 times now and torn it down completely twice....so **** doing it again. The head isn't coming off, end of story.
 
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MazdaSpeed626 said:
all i need to know is the best method to clean out metal shavings from the tap. the problem will be fixed by plugging the holes, there are people that have done this and been successful so theres no turning back now.
Click to expand...

I don't know the name of the tool, but my pops has this pole type thing, maybe 7 or 8mm thick that has a really powerful magnet at the end of it. It's for picking up pieces that you drop behind the fridge or something. Anyways, if the part you're drilling is steel, then a magnet would be a great way to get the metal shavings out. Maybe even use a thin cloth/paper towel on the outside of the magnet.

For the record, my opinion is against plugging the holes.
 
if after doing that you are still unsure?
run crappy oil for a little while with a filter, then flush oil and replace filter.
 
Alejo_NIN said:
there's something definately wrong with the pistons you are using.
i've never heard of those things breaking just from normal use...

maybe the rods are too short?

there's definately something fishy here....
Click to expand...

there isnt anything fishy. the machine shop did a poor job. either the oil squirters were not seated 100 percent or there was not enough clearance. maybe like the OP stated, the machine shop did not take into account thermal expansion.

The machine shop i took my engine to said that they notched the wiseco pistons even more just to make sure the pistons did not come into contact with the oil jets. i hope to god that the pistons clear the squirters after they expand!!! time will tell...

i know JDM sam had this issue with his arias pistons. they broke off the oil squirters (well i dont know how many were broken, but i know atleast one was).
 
ohh that sux.
i'm sorry if i came a lil strong on the shop issue...but it may have very well been the pistons themselfs...there's only so many variables a shop can control and i think thermal expansion is not one of them.

anyways, good luck on the build.

guess there's just one more thing to keep in mind when building an engine....
 
damn, 21psi of boost, with the MSP T25 turbo? I guess its out of efficient zone bein a heat pump.
 
So how do you go about checking for proper clearance on them...and if the clearance isnt there on the Aftermarket pistons...How do you correct the situation?
 
Scale them and get them within a gram or .5 gram between the pistons by removing material from it from the bottom.
Your best bet is to bring everything to a machine shop and let them do it.
Click my myspace msp build album and see.

Click this to see why you should balance your engine. If you are planning on just sticking rods and pistons in your motor, think again.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/eb10330.htm
 
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JDM Sam said:
Scale them and get them within a gram or .5 gram between the pistons by removing material from it from the bottom.
Your best bet is to bring everything to a machine shop and let them do it.
Click my myspace msp build album and see.

Click this to see why you should balance your engine. If you are planning on just sticking rods and pistons in your motor, think again.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/eb10330.htm
Click to expand...

very good read!
 
Im going through the exact same thing...Built block 2.8kmiles on it and the oil light came on...so
I checked the oil pan and found something??????
well after going on crossover's website I find a picture of the oil squirters and knew that it was my little friend at the bottom of my oilpan...

most shops want to plug them...but im not sold on the procedure.
 
hmm, i agree with you...
we're the few lucky who actually have oil coolers from factory as most engines don't. for turbo application, oil squirters are a plus for cooling the piston.

also, i think it provides extra lubrication under the piston that otherwise would never happen, making the walls that much hotter and flexible and prone to scratches and deformities of the cylinder wall.

how some shops choose to remove them altogether, gets me.

i think actually improving them instead of completely removing them is a better idea, perhaps using locktite or something similar....but i'll shut up now...

let the more knowledgeable people chime in
 
Alejo_NIN said:
hmm, i agree with you...
we're the few lucky who actually have oil coolers from factory as most engines don't. for turbo application, oil squirters are a plus for cooling the piston.

also, i think it provides extra lubrication under the piston that otherwise would never happen, making the walls that much hotter and flexible and prone to scratches and deformities of the cylinder wall.

how some shops choose to remove them altogether, gets me.

i think actually improving them instead of completely removing them is a better idea, perhaps using locktite or something similar....but i'll shut up now...

let the more knowledgeable people chime in
Click to expand...

This months issue of Road and Track concerning the new ZR1 states, that for the first time on a small block there are oil squirters to enhance cooling and reduce noise.
So they do serve a purpose.


Mine are working fine with my Aria pistons.
My machine shop was very knowledgeable and they have dealt with the FS-DE before. TheMan made sure to speak with them specifically about the oil squirter issue so everything was methodically tested and checked. Everything from the assembly was balanced including the pressure plate, flywheel bolts everything.
It was expensive.

According to Dino (I think) he measured the proper clearance at 1.1mm from the piston to the squirter. That's very tight but it is the same clearance mine have. I now have over 3000 miles and have hammered the PISS out my car of lately.
I am going to run big boost but with a HUGE front mount, lots of fuel and with the J&S.
I wish you the best of luck with this issue and I truly feel for you.


Here is a pic

47b7cf25b3127ccebfb2fad6256400000026108AYtGbRo1bNO
 
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