KL Swappin' Protege5

[AzteCypher]

It looks busy in there, but no more so than any other front wheel drive v6. Honestly it looks like it came with it stock. I like your OEM theme. Just curious, but are you thinking of doing any performance mods while making it look as stock as possible?

 

[31N007]

It looks busy in there, but no more so than any other front wheel drive v6. Honestly it looks like it came with it stock. I like your OEM theme. Just curious, but are you thinking of doing any performance mods while making it look as stock as possible?

For the interim, I have aftermarket headers installed. I'm inclined to retain the OEM airbox, though if I do anything regarding the intake, I might go to a true cold-air and route it through into the fender like some aftermarket options for the stock Proteges.

I have a full cat-back system (well, the components to it) waiting to go on. For the meanwhile, I am enjoying having a quiet car when I drive it sensibly.

The long-term goal is higher compression pistons (KLZE) as well as KLZE or reground cams. That should provide a substantial increase in fun-factor without turning the build into any more of a lesson in spending too much money.

Much as a turbo or supercharger has crossed my mind recently, the added hassle of 1) finding room and 2) worrying about longevity of the motor, has lead me to the belief that a well-built NA setup should be the best option for my needs.

 

[STudMUffin97]

+1 for the OEM look, really does look factory. Looks nice and happy in that p5 bay

 

[323]

Well I registered on the other forum to read your thread. Now I can just keep up with it here!

 

[31N007]

Well I registered on the other forum to read your thread. Now I can just keep up with it here!

Yeah, I sort of jumped the gun posting only on that forum. I should have posted the thread on both forums at the same time, but ran out of steam!

 

[323]

It's all good man. I wish there was a kit that made this swap more plug and play with the wiring and mounts and all. Same with the BP swap.

 

[31N007]

Yeah, I can only go so far as to make the notes I've taken "easy" to digest.

Mounting - I used stock FSDE mounts

Wiring was more in-depth, but I found that, after sitting down with the KL loom, really only a few wires had to be changed. I went above what was required in some areas for simplicity's sake.

There's a fella (W. Samet) on the KL Swap/Protege FB group who said that he and his mate could probably have sorted the swap out in a few days had they obtained everything they needed before the swap began.

I wish there was one sure-fire way to make a kit that was applicable to all variants. ABS, non-ABS, use this motor, use that motor, retain AC or not. There's just too many variants to make a "one-size-fits all" kit unfortunately...

 

[31N007]

Good news:

I have news

Bad news:

valve stem seals (I replaced) may be no good.

oil smell under deccel from high RPM and under WOT accel.

I will try to throw together a catch can and see what to do next.

Try to run a compression test and see how that turns out. Have not run a leakdown test before so I could also try and go that route.

If those point to the valve seals, I may try to source a set of DE heads to rebuild and then slap them on.

If not, and it points to rings, then I may try and locate an imported ZE to clean up or another DE and a set of high comp pistons. I know cams would be the next thing on the list to approach ZE power levels. Heads I'm not too fussed about I don't think.

 

[31N007]

Adding insult to injury, I made it to KY and back to MI sans issues, but I noticed that the coolant temp gauge was reading higher than "centered" (though I know most gauges are dummy gauges at best) when at operating temperature after I finally installed the sensor to my wideband gauge (I needed a bung welded so took the center section to a local shop and they got it squared away)

Looking on Torque Pro, the ECU reported temperature was a-okay, so that had me puzzled. If I have:
- key on engine off, the gauge at the same reported temperature reads "normal"
- key on engine on, the gauge at the same reported temperature begins to climb, with the "amount" of climb increasing as I put more electrical load on the system.

In my quest to narrow down the reason, I peeled back some loom and didn't see anything untowards. However I did kill the engine again, so the wiring is still a sore spot inside the car.

I am going to a junkyard today to hopefully pull another harness, this time I'll be keeping it as simple as I can when wiring it in. My hope is to have the car drivable reliably before Tuesday as I'm heading to IL for a work assignment then.

The main thing I'm going to have to watch is making sure the ECU grounds are good, and that the circuits that get tied into the "sensor ground" circuits are also solidly made.

The good news in all of this"

Got 27MPG round trip on the highway - if the motor is tired, that's a respectable value IMO.

I hope to have updates soon enough.

 

[31N007]

Turned a junkyard harness into something respectable this evening. Working on an even simpler wiring diagram to go along with the new harness.

 

[31N007]

From a scrambled mess to something hopefully functional.

Ashamed to say I caught a mis-positioned wire already. Here's to hoping that's the only one.

I plan to chuck it in this Friday and see what happens. I have functionally changed nothing about this harness from the last one. Removed one circuit going to the ECU. The KL loom had one 12V+ switched circuit powering the solenoids and ECU, and a second 12V+ switched circuit powering the fuel injectors.

My last harness I split the ECU power from the solenoids, and see no reason to on this go around.

Also the connections to the DIAG box under the hood were made in the last branch going to the box, rather than inside the car. I figure that branch won't be moved around too much provided the swap goes according to plan.

One thing I will do to the old harness once I pull it apart is to clean up any connections and put the harness inside a loom, rather than Tessa tape it directly. I hope that the harness being tightly wrapped isn't the cause of the issues, but if it is, I will be able to begrudgingly say, "third time's the charm?"

 

[LankyKiwi]

Ohhh boy that looks like fun!
What tape are you using / planning to use to wrap the loom ? might steal your ideas for my loom lol

 

[31N007]

Tessa tape is the brand - I guess it's similar to what the German OEMs use on their harnesses. But I just don't know if they have corrugated plastics underneath the tape, for example.

The last photo above where there's red tape visible near the ECU, some parts of the harness are Tessa tape wrapped. I'll try and remember to snap a photo of the more finished job.

 

[pcb]

Tessa tape is the brand -

Tessa tape is awesome...
I've had this roll of two-faced tape for over 15 years. It still works and didn't crumble or turn to dust.







We used to use Tessa tape to wrap pallets.
It was so strong that it would cut into your hand before it would break.

 

[31N007]

Good news:

Harness passed the wiggle test. Car no longer dies with the ECU shaken like it owes me money.

Double good news:



@i12drivemyMP5 sold me his old MX-6 RSB which came in while I was out of state for work. Happy to have had time to throw it in. I'm waiting to seal the hatch up (leaks through the taillight bolts) before considering reinstalling the trunk plastics. I don't mind the bare look, as the essentials are still there.

Oil catch can is on the list of things to be installed come the next time I'm in town.

 

[BenjiHoggi]

I'm curious, what grade fuel do you put into the car now that it's KL-swapped?

I pretty much assumed that most older NA engines could take regular (87), but a recent RegularCars review on YouTube pointed out that a 97 626 v6 takes 93 and has what looks to be the same KL-DE engine. Thus, it occurred to me that maybe my assumption wasn't completely true.

Would kinda suck if you had to put premium in the engine even at stock, but I suppose it's worthy compromise in a Protege.

 

[31N007]

I'm curious, what grade fuel do you put into the car now that it's KL-swapped?

I pretty much assumed that most older NA engines could take regular (87), but a recent RegularCars review on YouTube pointed out that a 97 626 v6 takes 93 and has what looks to be the same KL-DE engine. Thus, it occurred to me that maybe my assumption wasn't completely true.

Would kinda suck if you had to put premium in the engine even at stock, but I suppose it's worthy compromise in a Protege.

I've been putting in 93. One reason I'm leaning towards a new 3 as a daily instead of a MK7 GTI

I know it's got a knock sensor, and I'm sure it'll run on lower octane, but I figure, it's not something I want to try.

I did the rough math, and assuming 15k miles a year, 22mpg average, and a 70 cent price differential, that's $475/year, or around $40/mo extra. Can I swing that? Sure thing. But I'd rather have a "plebeian" daily that sips 87 lol.

Also, that review and the highway pickup is no joke. In 5th at 70, I can get up to 90-100 quite quickly even under 3/4 throttle. Lol

 

[BenjiHoggi]

I've been putting in 93. One reason I'm leaning towards a new 3 as a daily instead of a MK7 GTI

I know it's got a knock sensor, and I'm sure it'll run on lower octane, but I figure, it's not something I want to try.

I did the rough math, and assuming 15k miles a year, 22mpg average, and a 70 cent price differential, that's $475/year, or around $40/mo extra. Can I swing that? Sure thing. But I'd rather have a "plebeian" daily that sips 87 lol.

Also, that review and the highway pickup is no joke. In 5th at 70, I can get up to 90-100 quite quickly even under 3/4 throttle. Lol

That makes a lot of sense. I suppose the price jump for 93 makes sense if the car isn't a daily. If I was in your shoes though, I would probably want to run 87 if possible. I'd be wanting to drive that thing all the time and I can't get over the price of 93, having always used 87.

The stock FS-DE is slow, but I don't mind the power when driving quickly on backroads, and of course it takes 87. The handling is why I love this car so much, but I'd really love a more linear power curve at least. The MP3 ECU would do this for me and I'd be satisfied, except that of course that requires 93. The KL swap seems super awesome but obviously there's some work involved and I don't want to upset the dynamics of the car with extra weight. Adding 93 to the puzzle starts to make me question other options again. The OEM turbo swap also takes 93 I'd expect. I wonder if the FS-ZE takes 93? I bet it does too. I wish there was a better way to wake this car up just a bit without having to switch to 93.

Now that I think about it though, most of the other, newer performance cars I'd be interested in all take 93 as well. Maybe it's just something I need to accept. I guess it's only like $0.30/gal more here where I live.

 

[31N007]

That makes a lot of sense. I suppose the price jump for 93 makes sense if the car isn't a daily. If I was in your shoes though, I would probably want to run 87 if possible. I'd be wanting to drive that thing all the time and I can't get over the price of 93, having always used 87.

The one weird thing is that the MPGs I'm returning are far more varied than when I had the FSDE in. I could beat the snot out of it and got mid to high 20s consistently. I got 23MPG going down to IL from MI, and 31MPG coming back. If it was more consistent, I would be happier, but I won't complain as it's proven itself to be reliable.

The stock FS-DE is slow, but I don't mind the power when driving quickly on backroads, and of course it takes 87. The handling is why I love this car so much, but I'd really love a more linear power curve at least. The MP3 ECU would do this for me and I'd be satisfied, except that of course that requires 93. The KL swap seems super awesome but obviously there's some work involved and I don't want to upset the dynamics of the car with extra weight. Adding 93 to the puzzle starts to make me question other options again. The OEM turbo swap also takes 93 I'd expect. I wonder if the FS-ZE takes 93? I bet it does too. I wish there was a better way to wake this car up just a bit without having to switch to 93.

Honestly, I need to get the thing on some corner weights. It doesn't feel that out-of-balance compared to before the swap. Yes there's more nose weight, but realistically that can be countered with a spring rate change. I would say the increase in torque and the broader band sells the swap well. There's really not much more in the way of complexity (no turbo bits to plumb)

Now that I think about it though, most of the other, newer performance cars I'd be interested in all take 93 as well. Maybe it's just something I need to accept. I guess it's only like $0.30/gal more here where I live.

LOL I responded inline and that didn't work out the way I had hoped it would...

I just filled up today and It's a 60 cent difference. At least in MI and at the station I was at.

Really, if the added "fun" comes at the cost of pricier gas, and all else is the same (consumables, etc) then I would say it's a justifiable increase. I could get a FiST with relatively the same power (FiST has more, and tunability beyond what the stock ECU/KLDE offers) but I'm:
1) taking on a payment if I do that, compared to my cheap-as-chips Pro5
2) settling for a budget interior, which my Pro5 already has
3) giving up some passenger room, subjectively. I haven't directly compared specs
4) settling for a torsion beam rear end (this is really a pedantic statement to make, because it's actually really well set up from everything I've heard/ those I know who autocross one)

The bonus the FiST has is that it claims to take 87 LOL.

 

[323]

you forgot settling for a numb shifter feeling with the wires instead of the good ole bar on these new cars