Dangerous cylinder deactivation trouble on 2018 CX-5 and Mazda6 models

[jjm86m]

MyFirstMazda....I did read Go Hawks's OP carefully. What I was saying is that you can now check to make sure your CX-5 does not have a dislodged rocker arm by driving up to 70-80MPH(I think 4 cylinders are needed for this speed) or have the car in sport mode and go hard on the accelerator(pretending to pass someone, like Go Hawks did ). If the car can respond to this driving conditions, then you can assume the rocker arm is still in place. I plan to get my CX-5 reprogrammed for the PCM per the recall, then I will perform the tests mentioned to make sure my rocker arm is still in place.....I recommend others to do the same.

That's not entirely true. Between the time I had the limp mode failure to the time they checked the valve cover I routinely had my car at 80+ mph without noticing significant difference in performance. The problem only came up for me and go hawks at high RPMs, not high speeds. My first failure occurred at under 60MPH.

My concern with the recall is that if its only a PCM update and no valve cover removal/rocker arm check, then the reflash could be only masking the problem. For those of you posting about about taking your cx5 into the dealership for the recall, make sure you have a conversation with the dealer about the valve check.

 

[bkd234]

I think I bought a new CX-5 last night. After about an hour of filling out paperwork, I was on my way to finance guy. The sales manager come up and says "I hate to tell you this, but I cannot release the car to you because of a just received recall, we think it will be about a week to "get the fix". He continued "you can cancel the sale now or proceed and it will not finalize until you take possession". After probably a dozen hours of research, You Tube, and internet shopping I decided to proceed. Talk about being frustrated! I will see what kind of news comes out this week and decide what to do. I wonder how dealers will handle this--will they tell customers up front before the test drive, or wait until the very end of the process like what happened to me.

Just an update...I just received a call and said the car was ready to pick up. I called back and talked to the service manager. They did PCM update and said that on a new car he would not expect any issues. I asked about existing owners and he said he did not have all information.

 

[AlexSR]

This is an indication of how serious Mazda considers this problem.

Let's wait to see how they handle the recalls. There's no reason to think that Mazda is going to be cheap and stupid about it.

.

Things seem to be different in Europe, no news of a recall yet. Fortunately I ordered a Mazda 6 to be delivered in a few weeks because I was going to travel instead of buying it immediately, the dealer and Mazda Sweden seemed to be in the dark when I contacted them about this issue and gave evasive answers, contacted Mazda Europe (Germany) but no answer yet, then decided to ask the dealer for a declaration stating that the car they are selling is not affected by an inappropriate control program of the cylinder deactivation mechanism, that may result in malfunction of the valve clearance adjustment mechanism and fall of the rocker arm. They contacted Mazda Sweden but the policy will probably be dictated by Mazda Europe. Not sure if they were not aware of this issue, if they are just slow to react, or if they are going to be cheap and stupid, but it's strange that they are not checking the cars they are selling now. Unless programming for Europe is different but in that case they could have given a clear answer and issue the declaration.

 

[ceric]

If you were Mazda, I am sure you would also make 100% sure of
1. the batches of vehicles impacted
2. the right fix with minimum cost

These take time to make sure of.
The info will propagate to other countries gradually in due time.
Unlike the diesel engine issue, I think this one is not as challenging...

I must agree that recalls can be worrisome to some owners.
When we had our '05 Prius. It had four recalls.
After 8 yrs of ownership, nothing went wrong.
Just a boring and fuel efficient vehicle.

 

[MyFirstMazda]

Makes sense to first check to see the condition of the rockers and if good then do the program update. If the dealer finds that a rocker is off I guess they will replace the engine.

 

[CX5Nut]

I think I bought a new CX-5 last night. After about an hour of filling out paperwork, I was on my way to finance guy. The sales manager come up and says "I hate to tell you this, but I cannot release the car to you because of a just received recall, we think it will be about a week to "get the fix". He continued "you can cancel the sale now or proceed and it will not finalize until you take possession". After probably a dozen hours of research, You Tube, and internet shopping I decided to proceed. Talk about being frustrated! I will see what kind of news comes out this week and decide what to do. I wonder how dealers will handle this--will they tell customers up front before the test drive, or wait until the very end of the process like what happened to me.

It is actually US law...a new car dealer can not sell a car that has a recall on it unless the recall work was done.

 

[7eregrine]

One would assume they will do all the cars once they can .

 

[Tran7270]

My reference of 26 failures was from November 2018. That was the last count that my dealership had as of then. I was also told at that time by Mazda that they had 2 providers of PCMs and one of those had the wrong program on theirs. So, if this is true, its anyones guess how many vehicles are out there with this possible issue. And if you are simply doing city driving and never push the engine to a high enough RPM you may never experience the limp mode issue. But your vehicle still may have the dislodged
rocker arm. I have been trying to get Mazda to recall these vehicles ever since mine was in the shop getting a new engine. So I am extremely happy that hey are finally doing it.

Go Hawks..Thank you for the clarification on the number of affected units. So with 26 failures up till Nov 2018 and Mazda sold 125,638 CX-5 units by end of Sept/2018(not counting Oct/2018)...that is like 1 "confirmed" failure out of 4832. The problem is that there are more potential failures on the road, but not yet confirmed by users or users don't even know it. I was disappointed I came across your original post, but also glad at the same time that now I am aware of the potential issue. Thank you again for sharing.

 

[Tran7270]

That's not entirely true. Between the time I had the limp mode failure to the time they checked the valve cover I routinely had my car at 80+ mph without noticing significant difference in performance. The problem only came up for me and go hawks at high RPMs, not high speeds. My first failure occurred at under 60MPH.

My concern with the recall is that if its only a PCM update and no valve cover removal/rocker arm check, then the reflash could be only masking the problem. For those of you posting about about taking your cx5 into the dealership for the recall, make sure you have a conversation with the dealer about the valve check.

Jim86m....Noted and thank you for correcting me. Go Hawks did mention that, in an attempt to duplicate the issue(dislodged rocker arm), we have to rev up to 5500-6000 RPM and hold it there a bit.

Also, I wonder if the software version the dealership will use to reflash the PCM per the Recall will be the same version as the one used to flash your car and Go Hawks's car (I wonder this because of the time gap when they first fixed Go Hawks's car and now)

 

[MyFirstMazda]

A little bit off topic, but Honda has issued a recall for the oil dilution issue. Those cars have the potential to have cam and rocker issues.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10158743-0001.pdf

 

[madar]

A little bit off topic, but Honda has issued a recall for the oil dilution issue. Those cars have the potential to have cam and rocker issues.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10158743-0001.pdf

Yep, the Jap manufacturers are gonna drive me to look at American cars again, I'm liking the Jeep Grand Cherokees...

 

[LAMike240]

Im at the dealer now for 20k service and they are also updating the software per the recall. He said it only takes 15 minutes, so Ill assume they are not checking for a dropped rocker.

I did do the tests, 5-6k rpm 60 and below, and at speeds up to 80. No issues.

 

[cz5gt]

Got mine done as well.
Took about 15 mins for the update.
Yes, they are not checking anything else as the recall instructions are only for pcm update.

 

[MyFirstMazda]

I*m at the dealer now for 20k service and they are also updating the software per the recall. He said it only takes 15 minutes, so I*ll assume they are not checking for a dropped rocker.

I did do the tests, 5-6k rpm 60 and below, and at speeds up to 80. No issues.

My dealer has not called me back yet. Did you do the tests before or after the program update? I wish there was an easy way to look at the lifters/rockers, like with a bore scope camera into the oil fill opening, or some other innovative way without removing the valve cover.

 

[MyFirstMazda]

I wonder if CD doesn't work anymore after the program update. Maybe the higher oil pressure from the new program makes it such that the hydraulic valve no longer goes into CD mode.

 

[gdluke]

My guess is they didn't hear about the recall and assumed that it required parts. They can't fix the car if they don't know about the details of the recall yet.

I called one of the dealer's and mostly dealt with their scheduling secretary. She also mentioned the quote/unquote parts needed. So I called another dealer in the area and spoke to a service tech, he cleared things up and told me that the so called parts are the actual software itself and that most dealers should have received the software by early next week.

 

[Go Hawks]

Got mine done as well.
Took about 15 mins for the update.
Yes, they are not checking anything else as the recall instructions are only for pcm update.

This is rather disappointing. I am glad they are actually recalling these vehicles but they really need to be removing the valve cover and taking a look. If a customer already has the rocker arm off and don't realize it, this update does nothing for them. The damage has already been done and the dangerous situation still exists. This may actually make the situation worse given the false sense of security a person would have after having the recall work done and thinking they are no longer in danger of anything happening.

 

[Tran7270]

I wonder if CD doesn't work anymore after the program update. Maybe the higher oil pressure from the new program makes it such that the hydraulic valve no longer goes into CD mode.

Wishful thinking. I don't think Mazda would disable CD feature because of legal issue. That would violate emission footprint that they already filed for and it would violate the advertised MPG on the sticker window. However, the same cannot be said for engine Stop/Start feature where there is usually a button to disable it. I would pay someone $500 right now to disable my CD feature forever.

 

[Tran7270]

This is rather disappointing. I am glad they are actually recalling these vehicles but they really need to be removing the valve cover and taking a look. If a customer already has the rocker arm off and don't realize it, this update does nothing for them. The damage has already been done and the dangerous situation still exists. This may actually make the situation worse given the false sense of security a person would have after having the recall work done and thinking they are no longer in danger of anything happening.

You are on point. Perhaps after the PCM reflash, the dealership can test the car for the rocker arm by rev-ing it to 5500-6000 RPM to see if there is any Christmas tree lights up....just saying. Mazda's goal is to prevent the vehicle from going into limp mode and if updating the PCM is only half done, then Mazda will be in real trouble if the car continue to fail. I think Mazda knows something we are missing, there is no way Mazda would take that chance.

 

[cz5gt]

The pcm update does not remove the limp mode or masks anything.
It just updates the software control for oil pressure which is used for CD control (on/off) according to details.

I am staying behind my quote that if you get your rocker arm fallen you will notice it sooner or later. The least there would be different sounds from the engine.
Its not the end of the world. There are much worse recalls like takata airbags, cars getting on fire, etc.
Just drive on sport or manual mode for a test if you are so worried.