CX-6 - A Three-Row CX-5

[yrwei52]

Just read an article from Taiwan that Mazda is considering a three-row compact CUV based on new 2nd-gen CX-5 which should be named CX-6! Mazda has expanded market share world wide in recent years on CUVs with hot-selling CX-5 and unique SkyActiv Technology. But the sales of 1st-gen CX-5 is going down fast as it's reaching the end of product life cycle. In Japan, second quarter sales of CX-5 is 39,000 units, downed 30% from the same quarter last year. New 2nd-gen CX-5 is scheduled to be announced in LA Auto Show November at the earliest, but the market response in Japan is why can Mazda come out a new 3-row compact CUV like every other Japanese auto maker is doing?

Mazda does have a couple of 3-row compact vehicles such as Premacy (Mazda5) and Biante for Japanese demostic market, but both of them are 7 ~ 9 years old. New 3-row CUV CX-9 is designed mainly for North American market, it won't be popular in Asia due to its larger size.

Mazda is fully aware this issue and has decided to come out a new 3-row compact CUV based on 2nd-gen CX-5, the CX-6. It's said that the new 3-row CX-6 has been designing and developing along with the 2nd-gen CX-5, and it should be ready to be announced in 2017 Tokyo Auto Show.

On a side note, Mazda is also considering to make the Chinese-market only CX-4 released in June 2016 available in other markets due to the better than expected high inquiry and better ability to penetrate into new market than new 2nd-gen CX-9 which is too big for many regions!

Mazda5後繼有人？Mazda將以全新CX-6來做擋箭牌！

Chinese-market only CX-4:

 

[Unobtanium]

So...ummm...about the RX9...any news?

 

[yrwei52]

So...ummm...about the RX9...any news?

You know Mazda is a small car company and has very limited resources to do the R&D. I imagine all engineers are now busy to finalized the 2nd-gen CX-5 and 3-row CX-6, and they don't have time to do anything for rumored RX-9 which has very limited sales! Besides, I still don't have confidence on rotary engines which can overcome the oil-burning nature and the perception of being unreliable, not to mention the ability of meeting tougher emission standards nowadays!

 

[Kaps]

Does Mazda even sell the 5s in USA? Does anyone here own them - do you like it? I thought it was good on the price and utility aspect until i saw its crash ratings.

 

[yrwei52]

Does Mazda even sell the 5s in USA? Does anyone here own them - do you like it? I thought it was good on the price and utility aspect until i saw its crash ratings.

Mazda North American Operations do sell Mazda5 mini-mini-van in the US up to 2015 MY. My brother has one in NorCal and he likes it a lot. There're several forum members here have Mazda5 too they seem all like it! I've seen people even said not only their Mazda5 is bigger than CX-5 inside with 3-rows, but also it's more nimble than CX-5 too!

 

[Unobtanium]

You know Mazda is a small car company and has very limited resources to do the R&D. I imagine all engineers are now busy to finalized the 2nd-gen CX-5 and 3-row CX-6, and they don't have time to do anything for rumored RX-9 which has very limited sales! Besides, I still don't have confidence on rotary engines which can overcome the oil-burning nature and the perception of being unreliable, not to mention the ability of meeting tougher emission standards nowadays!

Yeah yeah, but they need a halo car. Hyundai has the 5.0 and the equiss. Gm the z06, dodge the viper, ford has several. Hell, even Honda is bringing back the nsx.

 

[ALafya]

Yeah yeah, but they need a halo car. Hyundai has the 5.0 and the equiss. Gm the z06, dodge the viper, ford has several. Hell, even Honda is bringing back the nsx.

I think they need to continue with their great design language and great handling but make their vehicles get even better fuel economy, ace all the crash/safety testing and make their AWD vehicles smarter than Subaru's, which is still rolling on their old days of glory.
They are too small to waste money on a car almost nobody buys.

 

[yrwei52]

I think they need to continue with their great design language and great handling but make their vehicles get even better fuel economy, ace all the crash/safety testing and make their AWD vehicles smarter than Subaru's, which is still rolling on their old days of glory.
They are too small to waste money on a car almost nobody buys.

Exactly! New 2nd-gen CX-5 has to score 5 stars instead of 3 in NHTSA's frontal collision test on passenger side. AWD system has to be more efficient with 1 mpg or less penalty like everybody else. Mazda should also offer more amnesties at least on par with every competitor on the top-of-line trim level, and improve the image and perception of mediocre quality and reliability. Most importantly, Mazda has to meet future CAFE fuel economy standard by offering some vehicles with much better MPG, hence making hybrid or electrical cars is inevitable unless the 2nd-gen SkyActiv Technology with HCCI (homogeneous charge compression ignition) and compression ratio of 18:1 can really shine on fuel economy catagory.

 

[Unobtanium]

I think they need to continue with their great design language and great handling but make their vehicles get even better fuel economy, ace all the crash/safety testing and make their AWD vehicles smarter than Subaru's, which is still rolling on their old days of glory.
They are too small to waste money on a car almost nobody buys.

I just want the brand to be cool again

The RX7FD's were awesome.

I'd totally consider one the way my toaster has held up so far. I am very impressed with it, mechanically, and would love to see them incorporate all they've learned since the RX7, into the RX9 (we don't even acknowledge the RX8...)

 

[yrwei52]

I just want the brand to be cool again

The RX7FD's were awesome.

I'd totally consider one the way my toaster has held up so far. I am very impressed with it, mechanically, and would love to see them incorporate all they've learned since the RX7, into the RX9 (we don't even acknowledge the RX8...)

From the design of the rotary engine by Mazda, I really don't know how Mazda engineers can resolve the inherent issue of burning oil. It's like you're trying to design a 2-cycle internal combustion engine without burning oil - impossible! And I haven't brought up the fuel efficiency issue. The rotary engine consumes too much fuel for the same amount of horsepower comparing to traditional 4-cycle internal combustion engine. To me, rotary engine is a thing of past and that's why nobody else is developing it anymore.

 

[Unobtanium]

From the design of the rotary engine by Mazda, I really don't know how Mazda engineers can resolve the inherent issue of burning oil. It's like you're trying to design a 2-cycle internal combustion engine without burning oil - impossible! And I haven't brought up the fuel efficiency issue. The rotary engine consumes too much fuel for the same amount of horsepower comparing to traditional 4-cycle internal combustion engine. To me, rotary engine is a thing of past and that's why nobody else is developing it anymore.

It doesn't have to make sense. It just has to be sexy, and fun. What on earth sense does a tiny 2-seater with low ground clearance and over-all poor economy make, anyway? But the sports car has always been a visceral thing based on emotion and not logic. Of course a rotary will burn oil. That's OKAY (as long as they can get the cats hot/tough enough to handle it). Yes, it's going to take a bit more involved ownership experience to fully appreciate the car. That's okay, too.

 

[yrwei52]

It doesn't have to make sense. It just has to be sexy, and fun. What on earth sense does a tiny 2-seater with low ground clearance and over-all poor economy make, anyway? But the sports car has always been a visceral thing based on emotion and not logic. Of course a rotary will burn oil. That's OKAY (as long as they can get the cats hot/tough enough to handle it). Yes, it's going to take a bit more involved ownership experience to fully appreciate the car. That's okay, too.

I can see your point. But as a small car company I don't know if Mazda can afford to do that! They're at a critical stage right now as their top-selling 1st-gen CX-5 is in the end of product life cycle, and the new 2nd-gen CX-9 is not selling well in its intended North American market! The upcoming 2nd-gen CX-5 is very important for Mazda who can survive in the business. But the competitions have been catching up, even surpass Mazda's SkyActiv Technology, and so far I don't see any break-through features from their new 2nd-gen CX-5!

 

[Unobtanium]

I can see your point. But as a small car company I don't know if Mazda can afford to do that! They're at a critical stage right now as their top-selling 1st-gen CX-5 is in the end of product life cycle, and the new 2nd-gen CX-9 is not selling well in its intended North American market! The upcoming 2nd-gen CX-5 is very important for Mazda who can survive in the business. But the competitions have been catching up, even surpass Mazda's SkyActiv Technology, and so far I don't see any break-through features from their new 2nd-gen CX-5!

Well, maybe this was their 1 hit wonder, kindof like Ford's Crown Vic and Mustang back in 1993-2004-ish. Either way, mine is serving me well. No real love for Mazda. They are just a brand (to me). I have no stock in their company. I am just impressed with my CX-5's quality for the price and would like to see an RX9 to compete with the 370Z replacement.

 

[craigo]

The Rogue has an available third row option. It is very small with almost no foot room - only useful up to toddler age. And it costs $1200 I think. I imagine this would be the case with a CX-5/6.

Oh, and no spare tire either. Have to use run-flats.

 

[yrwei52]

The Rogue has an available third row option. It is very small with almost no foot room - only useful up to toddler age. And it costs $1200 I think. I imagine this would be the case with a CX-5/6.
Oh, and no spare tire either. Have to use run-flats.

Those run-flat tires are expensive! No wonder Nissan charges $1,200 for the 3rd-row seat! Hope Mazda engineers can come up something smarter than using run-flats; or may be to go back to something like my old Honda CR-V - a full-sized spare tire with matching alloy wheel hanging on the rear door ... (whistle)

Actually I like the way the full-sized spare hanging on the rear door like my 1998 Honda CR-V. Not only I've a 5th tire to rotate, but also an extra alloy wheel to use in case one of the road wheels got damaged. Another added benefit is it serves an excellent bumper! This CR-V got rear-ended 4 times. While there was no damaged at all on CR-V as they all hit the spare tire, but 2 times others suffered major damage!

 

[m8te]

Interesting to see if this CX-6 comes through or not or if it'll just be in the Asian market like the CX-4. If anything the 3rd row seats would only have room for small kids. They're just trying to cash in on the SUV popularity worldwide. Can't blame them but the CX-9 serves the purpose well. It's not overly huge, it's slightly shorter than the outgoing model.

So...ummm...about the RX9...any news?

latest RX-7 news I know of coming out of Japan:
http://www.motoring.com.au/mazda-rx-9-locked-in-103563/

 

[yrwei52]

CX-9 Sales in the US

... Can't blame them but the CX-9 serves the purpose well. It's not overly huge, it's slightly shorter than the outgoing model.

I thought the 2nd-gen CX-9 sales should perform well in the US. But based on sales figures from Good Car Bad Car, this is shocking to me:

Year	Mazda CX-9 U.S. Sales Yearly in August
2010	2,687
2011	2,708
2012	2,252
2013	2,161
2014	1,911
2015	1,753
2016	1,863

This means August sales this year with brand-new 2nd-gen CX-9 is the second worst August since 2010, the first year monthly sales data are available although CX-9 1st-gen was in the US market started with 2007 MY. With new design and all the good reviews, it only out-sold 110 units over the worst August last year with 8-year-old out-going model! Like I said, Mazda CX-9 is not in the situation that supply can't meet demand. I can see there're plenty of new CX-9's at my dealership. I don't think Mazda can "compete" easily with those big auto makers in volume, but if you can't beat your own previous-gen model toward the end of product life cycle in sales, I think you have a serious problem.

YTD sales of 9,621 units to September of 2016 on Mazda CX-9 includes at least 1,161 old 2015 CX-9's sold from January to April this year. New 2016 CX-9 started available at Mazda dealers on May 20th, 2016. By looking at sales figure in the US of the CX-9 since May 2016:

Month	Mazda CX-9 U.S. Sales 2016
May	616
June	1,904
July	2,243
August	1,863
September	1,834

We can see the sign of initial interest of a brand new model with the sales peak. But it worries me the downward trend in August and September sales.

Look at top-selling mid-sized CUV Ford Explorer which sold 20,980 units, but Mazda CX-9 sold only 1,863 units in August! That means Explorer out-sold CX-9 11 to 1! In August, CX-9 only out-sold Ford Flex a tiny amount, and VW Touareg, Toyota Venza, and Honda Crosstour! No wonder we can hardly see a new CX-9 on the road!

I believe Mazda is still lacking consumer's confidence to its reliability from past history. Even though the quality and reliability have been improving, but they still hit and miss IMHO. The lack of luxury amenities and brand reputation also hurt the Mazda sales too.

 

[m8te]

I thought the 2nd-gen CX-9 sales should perform well in the US. But based on sales figures from Good Car Bad Car, this is shocking to me:

Mazda has never been a big player in the American market so I don't know of the trends, buyer preferences and how it will perform sales-wise in the near future. It does look disappointing in the last couple of months especially with the fact that the new CX-9 was primarily built for the American market hence no diesel option anywhere.

I can only speak for the Australian market whereby the CX-9 has been available in the last couple of months. The top performers for September are:

(AUS) SUV Large under $70k (10,224, up 10 per cent):

Toyota Prado (1160)
Subaru Outback (1042)
Toyota Kluger (940)
Mazda CX-9 (641)

Mazda are the 2nd highest selling automotive brand in Australia to Toyota which is phenomenal considering the difference in size of the companies. Mazda actually beat Toyota in SUV sales in September in AUS predominantly with its CX5 and CX3. It is expected that the CX-9 will gradually become at least 2nd and if not the top selling Large SUV in the coming months.