Another Case of Falsifying Fuel Economy Estimates

[yrwei52]

A Prius? The 17 Mirage is on shore with 55mpg no battery and car0lay/android auto.

This is the post we frequently see from Chris_Top_Her recommending Mitsubishi Mirage which has 55 mpg without expensive and complex hybrid system or diesels with problematic emission issues.

On April 20th 2016, the CEO of Mitsubishi Motors Corp. bowed and apologized to the Japanese consumers for lying the fuel economy estimates on several domestic sub-compact vehicles, "eK Wagon" and "eK Space". Since then, investigation has found it may involve a lot more then Mitsubishi originally admitted, the inflated MPG may include all models exported by Mitsubishi! Today Nissan is planning to spend $1.8 billion (USD) to buy 34% shares of Mitsubishi trying to save the company.

Nissan did it, Hyundai did it, now Mitsubishi did it! Who's next? Falsifying fuel economy estimates seems to be becoming a trend?!

 

[Unobtanium]

Mazda seems to have done it if my experience is indicative. I get, on average, 4-6mpg less than sticker for all types of driving but city, which is very subjective and depends on traffic levels.

 

[fdew]

When the EPA was established I realized that the A stood for agency of the federal government. On that bases I made a decision to ignore it. I am sorry to see that my decision was a good one. Yes, I know that individual auto companies lied but there is something about a government agency that seems to lead to corruption. The only numbers I would trust would be if a private company set up a business buying one each of every new car, test it, and resell it. Before EPA outfits like Car and Driver, and Road and Track did just that. They still test cars but they use the EPA numbers. for mileage.

My CX-5 was a month old before I learned from this forum what the EPA figures were.

 

[Rarebit]

When the EPA was established I realized that the A stood for agency of the federal government. On that bases I made a decision to ignore it. I am sorry to see that my decision was a good one. Yes, I know that individual auto companies lied but there is something about a government agency that seems to lead to corruption. The only numbers I would trust would be if a private company set up a business buying one each of every new car, test it, and resell it. Before EPA outfits like Car and Driver, and Road and Track did just that. They still test cars but they use the EPA numbers. for mileage.

My CX-5 was a month old before I learned from this forum what the EPA figures were.

In 29 years as a management consultant I've seen plenty of cheating in both the public and private sectors. The incentive to cheat is far higher where there are profits to be had. And this is just what you'd guess if you simply asked the question "who would cheat, and why?"

Just completed a 530 mile round trip through the mountains, from sea level, over two 4,800 ft summits each way. Driving at between 60 & 75 mph, 95% highway, the CX-5 averaged over 28.5 mpg.

My average over 1 year is 23.76 mpg. My driving is typically 80% city.

 

[yrwei52]

When the EPA was established I realized that the A stood for agency of the federal government. On that bases I made a decision to ignore it. I am sorry to see that my decision was a good one. Yes, I know that individual auto companies lied but there is something about a government agency that seems to lead to corruption. The only numbers I would trust would be if a private company set up a business buying one each of every new car, test it, and resell it. Before EPA outfits like Car and Driver, and Road and Track did just that. They still test cars but they use the EPA numbers. for mileage.

My CX-5 was a month old before I learned from this forum what the EPA figures were.

Motor Trend started to offer "Real MPG" number reflecting real-world fuel economy based on their own calculation during the test at about two years ago. A 2015 CX-5 Touring FWD in their long-term test fleet missed the "Real MPG" program and had never offered "Real MPG" data before they returned the CX-5 back.

 

[bmninada]

First of all - I don't think ANY Government agency in US actually does the testing. What I know is - they provide the rules down to the last detail on how to calculate the EPA estimates. Manufacturers are SUPPOSED to follow it, test out the vehicle and submit the EPA estimates which is then made public. At this point, a manufacturer may or may not fudge the numbers, tweak the tests, etc., etc. In 1 case I am aware the manufacturer followed everything down to the last detail EXCEPT doing the test somewhere at 15,000 feet level.
Government agency do get involved in case of serious complaints, public outcry, etc. That's when they MIGHT do their own verification.

It's very difficult here to gauge how much Mazda did or did not do. On one hand there's this whole group of people who are extremely satisfied with MPG whereas there's this another set completely unsatisfied. Coupled with wide variances when using AWD vehicles coupled with distinct highs and lows before and after break-in it's really an impossible task to state with absolutely certainty than Mazda played with the numbers.

 

[piotrek91]

First of all - I don't think ANY Government agency in US actually does the testing. What I know is - they provide the rules down to the last detail on how to calculate the EPA estimates. Manufacturers are SUPPOSED to follow it, test out the vehicle and submit the EPA estimates which is then made public. At this point, a manufacturer may or may not fudge the numbers, tweak the tests, etc., etc. In 1 case I am aware the manufacturer followed everything down to the last detail EXCEPT doing the test somewhere at 15,000 feet level.
Government agency do get involved in case of serious complaints, public outcry, etc. That's when they MIGHT do their own verification.

It's very difficult here to gauge how much Mazda did or did not do. On one hand there's this whole group of people who are extremely satisfied with MPG whereas there's this another set completely unsatisfied. Coupled with wide variances when using AWD vehicles coupled with distinct highs and lows before and after break-in it's really an impossible task to state with absolutely certainty than Mazda played with the numbers.

The EPA actually tests quite a few cars each year. That's how they catch the cheaters.
if you go here you can download the raw test data used to determine the ratings for each model.
https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/tcldata.htm

column AB lists the origin of the test data (either EPA or MFR)
for 2016 the EPA "checked" Mazdas results for: CX-3, Mazda3, Mazda6 as well as the Mazda 2 (which ended up being released as a scion)
Doesn't look like the CX-5 result was ever verified by the EPA, but almost every other Mazda model was.

 

[Lbear]

Driving style influences MPG as does the type of city driving and even highway (if you go above 70MPH).

Highway (speeds below 70 MPH) I see 29-31MPG with 19" wheels, AWD and OEM roof rails.

City is all over the places ranging from 23MPG - 27MPG

I don't think Mazda forged the numbers.

 

[bmninada]

The EPA actually tests quite a few cars each year. That's how they catch the cheaters.
if you go here you can download the raw test data used to determine the ratings for each model.
https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/tcldata.htm

column AB lists the origin of the test data (either EPA or MFR)
for 2016 the EPA "checked" Mazdas results for: CX-3, Mazda3, Mazda6 as well as the Mazda 2 (which ended up being released as a scion)
Doesn't look like the CX-5 result was ever verified by the EPA, but almost every other Mazda model was.

My own relative works in DC. They don't check until and unless they are getting complaints, manufacturer pays them to check and publish, Govt. requested them, etc.

 

[dougal]

Mazda seems to have done it if my experience is indicative. I get, on average, 4-6mpg less than sticker for all types of driving but city, which is very subjective and depends on traffic levels.

Funny, I get almost the exact reported figure, maybe a little higher actually. One thing that will reduce my MPG is gas from BJ's. Cheap but I now have a large enough sample size to feel confident that it will cost me ~1.8 MPG. You can look at my fuelly list and easily identify all the times I went to BJ's.

 

[jhu8]

Driving style influences MPG as does the type of city driving and even highway (if you go above 70MPH).

Highway (speeds below 70 MPH) I see 29-31MPG with 19" wheels, AWD and OEM roof rails.

City is all over the places ranging from 23MPG - 27MPG

I don't think Mazda forged the numbers.

I don't think they did either. I am getting 29-30 mpg average right now in my 16 AWD cx5. probably 50/50. When I got off the highway today(17 min of highway) my mpg for that drive was 32.9. I drove 65-70mph. Then another 15 min driving through the city. When I got to work my trip mpg was 33. It went up! After driving through the city. Yes, there wasn't any bad traffic but I also wasn't driving like an animal. I coasted, and was able to time many lights because of the coasting. And guess what, when I got to the light right before I turn into the garage for work, I saw the cars that had zoomed past me earlier on.

The only people having issues with mpg are the ones who simply drive like animals. Sorry, I couldn't find another way to put it. They speed, speed up just to stop at a redlight, ride peoples bumpers, etc. A couple members in my family do that stuff. And their mpg reflects it. You don't have to drive like an old person to get above EPA gas mileage in the cx5, and any car really. You just have to drive with common sense. If you have common sense on how and what effects gas mileage, and act upon it, you will get above average gas mileage. I've done it in every car I've had.

 

[bmninada]

I don't think they did either. I am getting 29-30 mpg average right now in my 16 AWD cx5. probably 50/50. When I got off the highway today(17 min of highway) my mpg for that drive was 32.9. I drove 65-70mph. Then another 15 min driving through the city. When I got to work my trip mpg was 33. It went up! After driving through the city. Yes, there wasn't any bad traffic but I also wasn't driving like an animal. I coasted, and was able to time many lights because of the coasting. And guess what, when I got to the light right before I turn into the garage for work, I saw the cars that had zoomed past me earlier on.

The only people having issues with mpg are the ones who simply drive like animals. Sorry, I couldn't find another way to put it. They speed, speed up just to stop at a redlight, ride peoples bumpers, etc. A couple members in my family do that stuff. And their mpg reflects it. You don't have to drive like an old person to get above EPA gas mileage in the cx5, and any car really. You just have to drive with common sense. If you have common sense on how and what effects gas mileage, and act upon it, you will get above average gas mileage. I've done it in every car I've had.

From what you write its clear you're either quoting your instant mpg read or the avg read. Most probably instant MPG. Many here are discussing the final MPG numbers, when fueling up and calculating based on ODO and # of gallons of fuel. I can't comment about others but I have not seen no higher than 27.5 mpg which is a mix of 60/40 city/hwy driving. If 80/20, it drops and hovers around 24. I do NOT drive above 70 mph, I do NOT accelerate like a rocket or slam my brakes. In fact, friends call me a snail because I gently accelerate and gently stop when in CX5. In my 2007 Corolla, which is lowered with Eibach springs, TRD anti-roll I drive like a mad man. Frankly, I am yet to see +30 mpg. I have observed the MPG has increased in summer, increased after 1st. oil change.

 

[jhu8]

From what you write its clear you're either quoting your instant mpg read or the avg read. Most probably instant MPG. Many here are discussing the final MPG numbers, when fueling up and calculating based on ODO and # of gallons of fuel. I can't comment about others but I have not seen no higher than 27.5 mpg which is a mix of 60/40 city/hwy driving. If 80/20, it drops and hovers around 24. I do NOT drive above 70 mph, I do NOT accelerate like a rocket or slam my brakes. In fact, friends call me a snail because I gently accelerate and gently stop when in CX5. In my 2007 Corolla, which is lowered with Eibach springs, TRD anti-roll I drive like a mad man. Frankly, I am yet to see +30 mpg. I have observed the MPG has increased in summer, increased after 1st. oil change.

No, it is from my average mpg. I actually just noticed the bump into 29mpg recently. Possibly d/t the switchover to summer blend of gasoline. Has the average mpg calculation in the cx5 proven to be inaccurate? I haven't heard anything. In my old elantra, it would be off by 3 mpg. But I have yet to read/hear anything about the cx5 having issues.

 

[Unobtanium]

No, it is from my average mpg. I actually just noticed the bump into 29mpg recently. Possibly d/t the switchover to summer blend of gasoline. Has the average mpg calculation in the cx5 proven to be inaccurate? I haven't heard anything. In my old elantra, it would be off by 3 mpg. But I have yet to read/hear anything about the cx5 having issues.

I get @1mpg more hand calculating it.

 

[jhu8]

I get @1mpg more hand calculating it.

I'm gonna do a couple hand calculations and see what I get.

 

[Ride92]

I have mine set so that every time I turn the car it shows me the MPG's for that trip. Short trips of only a few miles I usually see mid to low 20's, longer trips with no interstate but state highways around 55mph I see low 30's if I hit the interstate and 70+ it's usually high 20s. I think over the coarse of the first year of ownership I'm averaging right about 26mpg with about a 60-40 mix city/highway. I take a lot of smaller trips around town running errands and dropping kids off places. I think that's pretty much on par for what I expected and what was stated for the mpg numbers. Mazda lists the numbers on their website for the 2.5 awd as 24/30 city highway so 26 mixed is about right.

 

[IHeartGroceries]

Lifetime efficiency in my 13 model has been steady at 28-29 MPG. Of course, road trips result in improved economy and diminished econ for heavy city travel. But, 28 for probably a 60/40 city to highway split in my wife's has made me very satisfied.

In my 2015 model 3 i or s or whatever the hell it is, 2.5l with a manual, I can typically maintain 31 MPGs or so, mixed city and highway driving. Probably breaks down to a 60/40 spit as well. But, I work to maintain good efficiency...my wife just mashes it everywhere she goes. I feel like I could do better in her CX-5.

Anyway, count me in as one of those who considers deviated efficiency from the suggested manufacturer numbers as the result of improper maintenance and driving habits.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[fdew]

But wait, theres more

The government lying to the government.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/gm-stops-sale-suvs-mileage-window-stickers-wrong-39102319
General Motors Co. is telling dealers not to sell about 60,000 SUVs in the U.S. because the gas mileage listed on the window stickers was inadvertently overstated.

 

[iced_theater]

I personally have never had a problem reaching or exceeding EPA estimates on any car I've owned. My wife get's the EPA combined mileage figure on her 2012 Nissan Rogue which is only 24 mpg.

 

[Chris_Top_Her]

Yea but, that 55mpg is from members feedback, not Mitsu sticker claims. Also, that misrepresentation doesn't cover an US market vehicles; its pretty much a few microcars sold in the asian market. That being said it seems like Nissan may be soon involved in mitsu. Mirage GTR soon