2016.5 CX-5 Transmission fluid change questions

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA

Torque Specs:
  1. Transmission Dipstick Bolt: 71 - 97 in lbf
  2. Transmission Drain Plug: 23 - 30 ft lbf
  3. Transmission Filter (Strainer) Bolts: 80 - 88 in lbf
  4. Transmission Pan Bolts: 71 - 88 in lbf
  5. Fresh Air Duct Bolts: 71 - 88 in lbf
Most may have already noticed, but still a warning here about the torque range (Mazda special) value listed: most of them are in-lb, which is 1/12 of the ft-lb torque we usually see. So make sure don’t over-tighten these bolts!
 
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16.5 CX-5 Tour/AWD
If you applied the RTV around the pan continuously without any breaking point, I’d imagine chances are very slim the pan will leak. If unfortunately it does leak, I’d get another 4 ~ 5 quarts of FZ ATF and consider It the lesson learned for applying the RTV, and the 4th drain-and-fill which increases the fresh ATF ratio from 87.5% to 93.75%! You really don’t want taking any chances to re-use the drained-out ATF which may have been contaminated, especially in a system which simply can only do 50% draining.

I did go in a continuous line in the inner pan side. I have a diagram of what I did, the only thing that wasn't continuous was the semi-circles on the bolt edges. True, I figured that since I didn't even start the car yet, then I may have a chance to reuse it but better safe than sorry I guess.

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If you look at the video, the guy’s CX-5 diesel has only 13,121 km / 8,153 miles, and the magnetic has similar amount of metal shavings like your transmission with 63K miles. Those metal shavings should have been there since early stage of the transmission life. They should make no harms to the transmission because they got stuck by the magnet and filter strainer.

To be honest, it still doesn't make me feel at ease with the magnet all covered up with crud. Seems like it would be a good idea to add some extra magnets like what he did in the video to even out the distribution of the extra stuff remaining. Not sure if it would make sense to purchase the magnets from Mazda or go aftermarket in the future.

Several questions:
1. Are these 2 o-rings which need to be replaced included in the new Mazda OEM ATF “oil strainer” FZ01-21-500?

The new filter (strainer) already comes with the two green o-rings preinstalled so you do not have to take off the old ones and place them over the new filter. The only thing I recommend doing is lubricating the o-rings, male surface of the new filter so that it slides in easily and you don't damage the o-ring. I used the fluid from the transmission that's already leaking.

2. “Oil strainer“ bolts can be re-used?
The bolts that were already inside of the filter prior to removal looked fine but I guess I just wanted to play it safe and replace them.

3.Mazda Factory Workshop Manual says “Apply a light coat of silicon sealant (TB1217E) to the contact surfaces of the oil pan and transaxle case.” Did you apply RTV both sides or just on the pan?
I did not bother to apply anything to the contact surfaces of the transaxle case because the RTV that is already on the pan will touch the transaxle case anyways and it seems a little extra. In the videos that I watched on YouTube, I did not see them apply it on the case as well. I guess I'll find out if it's extra very soon.

4.Pan bolts should be replaced with new ones?
When I did my research, there were some people that mentioned to replace the pan/filter bolts and the manual recommends it as well. I paid about $13.76 for the (16) bolts and they were also starting to get rusty. In a lot of the videos I watched, I saw them reusing the old bolts but if you don't have rust or anything on them, I figure you could possibly reuse them.
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5.Did you tighten the pan bolts with cross-pattern? It seems strange that FSM doesn’t say that?
I attempted to do the cross-pattern for only 6-10 bolts then I forgot which ones I haven't tightened because I was rushing to beat the 5-minute drying time from the RTV so I ended up just going in a circle afterwards to see which ones I missed.


IMO cork / rubber transmission pan gasket usually won’t last long to prevent ATF leak. If Mazda designed the pan using the RTV sealant, I’d use it again without hesitation. Once the initial metal shavings are cleaned with a new filter strainer, I’d believe we won’t see too many of these the next time we drop the pan. Your experience and the YouTube video, make me think that I should drop the pan to clean up the metal shavings during my first ATF drain-and-fill.

One thing for sure is I won’t use Permatex® the Right Stuff® 1 Minute Gasket™ GREY Gasket Maker as I hate to do the job in very limited time frame. Besides, the data sheet still says it needs 24 hours to cure fully. I may try OEM RTV TB1217E or something similar to "ThreeBond 1207C Liquid Gasket Reddish Brown" showing in the video when I plan to drop the pan. Mazda Factory Workshop Manual says “Apply a light coat of silicon sealant (TB1217E) to the contact surfaces of the oil pan and transaxle case.” Again, did you apply RTV both sides or just on the pan?

Honestly, applying RTV seems more like an art than anything, the nozzle from the permatex tube sucks and I would've liked to apply it evenly throughout like Felix Dan, rather than going in a continuous line with no breaks. Also, I thought you would do (2) drain and fill and (1) pan drop to get rid of 87% of the old stuff :D? I'm debating whether or not it's worth it to drop the pan again at around 30k miles just to see how it looks and just skip the drain and fill.


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Yep, it says 24 hours to fully cure but it also mentions that it can be ready to be used right away in their TDS. That's the only reason why I thought it was worth it but let me know how the ThreeBond goes when you drop your pan.

I only applied the RTV to the pan since it would be touching the mating surface.


Most may have already noticed, but still a warning here about the torque range (Mazda special) value listed: most of them are in-lb, which is 1/12 of the ft-lb torque we usually see. So make sure don’t over-tighten these bolts!

Very true, I also used a digital torque wrench instead of the regular click-types that you can purchase. I'm actually scared sometimes because the click-torque wrench can be defective and if it doesn't click when tightening, you'll eventually snap the bolt in half so I decided to invest in a better tool. Obviously, that's just me hehe.

Oh, in addition, here are the prices I've paid so far:
  1. Mazda OEM Filter (Strainer) (FZ01-21-500): $26.89
  2. Transmission (Filter) Strainer Bolts (9945-40-616): 2 bolts for $3.16
  3. Transmission (Pan) Bolts (9YA0-10-615A): 16 bolts for $13.76
  4. Transmission/Oil Washer (9956-41-400): 14 bottles for $152.12
  5. Permatex® the Right Stuff® 1 Minute Gasket™ GREY Gasket Maker: $15.93
  6. Permatex High Temperature RTV Silicone Gasket Maker: $9.65
  7. Pittsburgh Non-Marring Scraper Set, 4 Pc.: $12.99
So in total, around $235 for (2) drain and fills (1) pan drop.
 
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16.5 CX-5 Tour/AWD
Also, when I was looking for methods to best apply the RTV, I was unable to find any good videos or tutorials on how to do it because everyone seemed to have a different method. The one I used was this method:

Go in a straight line inside the inner edges and then come back to the bolt holes and apply semi circles.

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I think (2) other method that could be used is to apply a thick layer on the middle of the pan surface and going over the holes.

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or from Felix Dan

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yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA

Very true, I also used a digital torque wrench instead of the regular click-types that you can purchase. I'm actually scared sometimes because the click-torque wrench can be defective and if it doesn't click when tightening, you'll eventually snap the bolt in half so I decided to invest in a better tool. Obviously, that's just me hehe.
What kind of digital torque wrench do you have?
 
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2014 mazda cx-5 touring FWD
Db ---awesome job,pix and detailed info.This is an outstanding contribution to this topic!Yourself and yrwei52 are really digging in to this and deserve to be commended.

I would like to add these comments.

1) A good sealant any day of the week for a tranny pan if that's what the OEM recommends .Over the years with different vehicles and numerous trans services,I 've had exactly one (1) where it didn't leak after time and retorquing.
2) Auto trannys when getting broken in generate metal and friction material "junk" and sometimes a lot of it. Normally grey sludge.You just don't want chunks of steel,bearing pieces and brass chunks.Bigger stuff.I had a GM 4T65E trans that made lots of junk (nature of the beast) and the magnet was completely covered at every service and the tranny lived a long life.So it goes.
 
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16.5 CX-5 Tour/AWD
So I poured in (5) quarts of ATF FZ back into the vehicle, turned it on for about 3 minutes and checked the dipstick 3-4 times and I did not see any leaks coming from the bottom of the pan at all. The fluid looked much more clear/blue than before so that's definitely a good sign.

Oh also, two dumb mistakes I made:
  1. I turned my car on by accident with the remote start and turned it off immediately. Hopefully I didn't damage anything but I would advise anyone to disconnect the negative battery cable if you're clumsy like me.
  2. I found my crush washer at the bottom of my food storage container and didn't realize it until I was cleaning up everything so I may have to purchase another 4 bottles of ATF FZ and do another drain and fill. I thought it was stuck on the drain hole because it looked exactly like the crush washer.
Hopefully you guys learned from my mistakes :D

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16.5 CX-5 Tour/AWD
Just a few observations:
  1. The car definitely feels a lot better when it's shifting in gear. It's buttery smooth now. I did not notice this during the 2nd drain and fill but after dropping the pan/cleaning things up and changing the filter, I definitely notice the difference. Just something to keep in mind.
  2. I used about (3) different OBD II tools and I still couldn't see the ATF Temps on Torque Pro so I don't know if it's something wrong with my car or if these OBD II readers just don't have the sensors built in. I did check the sensors in the adapter settings as well and they were not listed so I'm guessing the only way to see the actual ATF temps is by using an expensive bidirectional scanner or having the Mazda IDS software.
  3. Since I'm planning to do a 4th drain and fill because I made a mistake, I'll keep you guys updated on how the driving feels to see if it would be worth to do more than (3) or if it would be past the point of diminishing returns.
  4. For anyone planning to recycle the old ATF fluid, you most likely have to keep the OEM containers as I just attempted to recycle (13) of the Mazda bottles + (1) plastic soda bottle but they wouldn't take the soda bottle.
  5. The ATF fluid has a sweet aroma to it, not sure if something is wrong with my nose but it definitely has a pleasant smell.
Things that I may do next time:
  1. Install a Fumoto Drain Valve + Cover to prevent accidentally activating the lever so I don't need to keep using a drain bolt/new crush washers.
  2. Use #0000 Steel Wool/5000 grit sandpaper to buff off the oxidation off of the transmission mating surface/old transmission pan. I plan to replace the transmission pan on my next drop because I notice rust starting to form on the bottom of the pan.
Question(s) for anyone who can answer:
  1. Does anyone know the thread size for the transmission drain bolt and also the oil pan drain bolt?
  2. Has anyone successfully installed a Fumoto valve on their CX-5/vehicle and how has it held up so far?
 
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16.5 CX-5 Tour/AWD
So it looks like I messed up the RTV application process and the ATF FZ is leaking out from the corner. I noticed a puddle when I decided to inspect the bottom of the vehicle just to double check. I guess I'll be redoing the RTV after all, but I'm going to use the Permatex Automatic Transmission RTV Sealant (3 oz.).

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yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
So it looks like I messed up the RTV application process and the ATF FZ is leaking out from the corner. I noticed a puddle when I decided to inspect the bottom of the vehicle just to double check. I guess I'll be redoing the RTV after all, but I'm going to use the Permatex Automatic Transmission RTV Sealant (3 oz.).

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Yes, switch to a different RTV. And try to follow the procedure from Mazda FSM.

7. Apply a light coat of silicon sealant (TB1217E) to the contact surfaces of the oil pan and transaxle case.

CAUTION:

  • Clean any remaining silicone sealant on the contact surface of the transaxle case and oil pan, and degrease the sealant area. Otherwise, oil could leak.

8. Install the oil pan with new bolts before the applied sealant starts to harden.

  • Tightening torque8—10 N·m {82—101 kgf·cm, 71—88 in·lbf}
 
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16.5 CX-5 Tour/AWD
Yes, switch to a different RTV. And try to follow the procedure from Mazda FSM.

7. Apply a light coat of silicon sealant (TB1217E) to the contact surfaces of the oil pan and transaxle case.

CAUTION:

  • Clean any remaining silicone sealant on the contact surface of the transaxle case and oil pan, and degrease the sealant area. Otherwise, oil could leak.

8. Install the oil pan with new bolts before the applied sealant starts to harden.
  • Tightening torque8—10 N·m {82—101 kgf·cm, 71—88 in·lbf}

I think I'll try that but the question is, do I smudge it all over the surface or do I just apply a small continuous bead? In addition, I watched a few more YouTube vids and there's this guy that is showing what Felix Dan did in his transmission video (#3) which is smudging the RTV over the pan surface instead of applying a continuous bead. In one of the comments, they mentioned that doing so would cause air pockets so it's best to apply in a continuous line but this method definitely seems the easiest to reproduce.
  1. How to use RTV and properly make a gasket
  2. 1995 Lexus ES 300 /Toyota Camry How to Reseal Leaking Oil Pan Gasket using FIPG Sealant
  3. 41TE or A604 Transmission pan seal with RTV, the right way, Trans service
I think the reason why my pan was leaking at the corner may have to do with the fact that I either:
  1. Didn't apply enough RTV at that area
  2. Smudged the RTV against the underbody mounting surface by accident
#2 seems the most likely though but I'll definitely apply more than I did before just to be certain. Also, given that I don't have time constraints, I can take my time and carefully go around all of the bolts


I think this video below does a good job in showing how it's done.
Transmission Pan Gasket, Filter and ATF Replacement - Chrysler PT Cruiser Part II

I thought of a few options:
  1. Spread a thin layer using my finger onto the transmission mating surface + Apply a continuous bead to the pan surface
  2. Spread a thin layer using my finger onto the transmission mating surface + Spread the RTV onto the pan surface using my finger
  3. Apply a small continuous bead around the transmission mating surface + Apply a slightly thicker continuous bead to the pan surface in and around the bolt holes (my original plan)
  4. Apply a slightly thicker continuous bead to the pan surface in and around the bolt holes (my original plan)
I can definitely see why Mazda would not recommend the tranny fluid change now, especially the RTV portion of it. Seems like there's many ways of doing it and the only correct way would be to experiment as everyone seems to have a different method. Safest best seems to be following the manufacturers instructions which is applying the continuous bead 3 - 6 mm in/around the bolt holes and maybe using my finger to apply a light layer onto the mating surface (#1).

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I was browsing another forum and there's definitely some good points being made by mrblaine. Seems like not everyone can agree to the consensus of smearing/beading LOL :LOL:

RTV Bead or Smear?
 
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yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
I think I'll try that but the question is, do I smudge it all over the surface or do I just apply a small continuous bead? In addition, I watched a few more YouTube vids and there's this guy that is showing what Felix Dan did in his transmission video (#3) which is smudging the RTV over the pan surface instead of applying a continuous bead. In one of the comments, they mentioned that doing so would cause air pockets so it's best to apply in a continuous line but this method definitely seems the easiest to reproduce.
  1. How to use RTV and properly make a gasket
  2. 1995 Lexus ES 300 /Toyota Camry How to Reseal Leaking Oil Pan Gasket using FIPG Sealant
  3. 41TE or A604 Transmission pan seal with RTV, the right way, Trans service
I think the reason why my pan was leaking at the corner may have to do with the fact that I either:
  1. Didn't apply enough RTV at that area
  2. Smudged the RTV against the underbody mounting surface by accident
#2 seems the most likely though but I'll definitely apply more than I did before just to be certain. Also, given that I don't have time constraints, I can take my time and carefully go around all of the bolts


I think this video below does a good job in showing how it's done.
Transmission Pan Gasket, Filter and ATF Replacement - Chrysler PT Cruiser Part II

I thought of a few options:
  1. Spread a thin layer using my finger onto the transmission mating surface + Apply a continuous bead to the pan surface
  2. Spread a thin layer using my finger onto the transmission mating surface + Spread the RTV onto the pan surface using my finger
  3. Apply a small continuous bead around the transmission mating surface + Apply a slightly thicker continuous bead to the pan surface in and around the bolt holes (my original plan)
  4. Apply a slightly thicker continuous bead to the pan surface in and around the bolt holes (my original plan)
I can definitely see why Mazda would not recommend the tranny fluid change now, especially the RTV portion of it. Seems like there's many ways of doing it and the only correct way would be to experiment as everyone seems to have a different method. Safest best seems to be following the manufacturers instructions which is applying the continuous bead 3 - 6 mm in/around the bolt holes and maybe using my finger to apply a light layer onto the mating surface (#1).

View attachment 227343

I was browsing another forum and there's definitely some good points being made by mrblaine. Seems like not everyone can agree to the consensus of smearing/beading LOL :LOL:

RTV Bead or Smear?
IMO, your leak is caused by wrong type of RTV been used, especially yours is a fast-drying one. Looks like Permatex Automatic Transmission RTV Sealant should be a better choice than Permatex® the Right Stuff® 1 Minute Gasket™ GREY Gasket Maker. As far as on applying method, I personally would prefer method #3 you mentioned above. Also, clean any old silicone sealant, which should be a bit easier since it’s fresh. And degrease the sealant area on the contact surface of the transaxle case and oil pan.

I would use a new drain plug washer for this drain-and-fill just in case. Drain plug on ATF pan is the same as engine oil pan drain plug with 8-mm hex hole. And make sure the factory drain plug washer is not stuck on the drain plug as both of drain plug and washer were painted black and they are easily to be seen mistakenly as one piece.
 
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Mazda CX-9 Signature
Fyi my experience with the transmission rtv was difficult. It was hard to squeeze out, so one continuous bead was not possible for me. My advise is to lay quarter inch bead as far as you can and if you stop, just overlap and continue. Any location that might look too thin, just glob on top.
 
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16.5 CX-5 Tour/AWD
Fyi my experience with the transmission rtv was difficult. It was hard to squeeze out, so one continuous bead was not possible for me. My advise is to lay quarter inch bead as far as you can and if you stop, just overlap and continue. Any location that might look too thin, just glob on top.

You are honestly 100% correct about the RTV being extremely hard to apply. I just used the non-c02 powered one and it was a PITA. It requires someone with vise grip fingers in order to squeeze it out as my fingers were going numb. I went over some areas twice and I went back and put more on top.