2018 Mazda CX-5 jerky at low speeds

Guys, I was given the attached TSB from another member in this forum.

My car was made in Nov 2020 in Japan and I live in NZ. Hard to tell whether mine is applicable but still a good knowledge to know nevertheless.

I did find this YouTube vid below explaining how Mazda introduced a clutch on their automatic tranny, so this may have contributed to it as well?
There are a variety of experiences in this thread--ticking noises, lurching, etc., going back to 2018 prior to the software recall and up through 2020 post-recall which may reflect different problems.

With my 2020 2.5L I'm in the camp that the trans has a propensity to "lug" in low gears when in normal mode as others have described it using different terms, the same sensation you get with a a manual transmission when the RPMs drop too low for the gear and then you give it gas. The higher revving sport mode alleviates the problem, but as others have noted that's not optimal for daily driving, a noisier and probably a gas guzzling approach.

I've found putting more zoom-zoom into the gas pedal in normal mode sharply reduces the propensity to lug. That's not very helpful in city driving where your to zoom-zoom is dependent on the car in front of you, nor in situations like coming out of a hairpin turn at low speed. I don't have that much of an issue with it because I live in the exurbs and don't commute. City drivers with a lot of stop-and-go might be quite aggravated by that lug.

I'm coming up on an oil change in June, my vehicle would qualify for the TSB, and I'll inquire about it, but I'm not particularly hopeful. First, this TSB talks about "surging" at 2-cycles per second. That sounds like something different than plain old lugging. Also the TSB specifies first gear. It's not hard to lug the vehicle in second gear in normal mode, for instance zoom-zooming to second gear to avoid lug, then letting off for the gas for a slow moving car in front, dropping revs before accelerating into third.

We'll see. I'll report back.
 
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As an aside, I am currently on a business trip and renting a Nissan Rogue. It seems more responsive and shifts more smoothly. Of course there are other aspects I don't like nearly as much as my CX-5 and I don't want to take us off topic but just thought I'd mention it might be smoother shifting.
It's like the CX-5 has an Economy mode and a Sport mode, but needs a Normal mode somewhere between the two.
The Rogue has a CVT transmission. It might be smoother shifting, or I should say non-shifting since CVTs use belts not gears, but it might not be as satisfying as the CX-5 when one does drive aggressively. I have not driven one and wouldn't think about a Nissan until they can get their reliability up to snuff.

Anyway, there are any number of possible trade offs in any side-by-side comparison. I sensed the CX-5 lugging when test driving thinking I'd have to get used to it, give it some zoom zoom at the get off, and that has proven to be the answer when the situation allows. Sometimes the situation doesn't and I live with that.

In the world of "what ifs", how about an 8-speed tranny? That ought to smooth things out. The RAV4 has a 4 cylinder / 8-speed (kinda sorta) set-up, so the idea is not novel in this class. That's more expensive than a software modification and another setting for the console switch, but who's to say they could find a way to get the software to provide that middle ground without some mechanical re-design or some new trade-off.

An 8-speed might provide incremental fuel economy improvement, as they typically do, to allow for ditching the cylinder deactivation while still getting to the same mpg target. That would be a win-win for many, though any complaint I might have with CD performance would be a nit pick.

Couple other things:

As I understand it, the RAV4 is not a true 8-speed, rather a complicated CVT/gear hybrid where it uses a CVT-like belt system to accelerate through the equivalent of first and second gear, then switches to a geared system. This is relatively new--one wonders what the longevity will be like. I didn't test drive that one either though I've been quite happy with four Toyotas over the years. I don't like new things with high price tags. I prefer proven things when there is a chunk of money on the line.

Also, has Mazda ever build an 8-speed? My quick check says the larger vehicles in the line-up use 6-speeds If this is plowing new ground for Mazda that's something to consider in a risk avoidance calculation, for the maker and for us.
 
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The Rogue has a CVT transmission. It might be smoother shifting, or I should say non-shifting since CVTs use belts not gears, but it might not be as satisfying as the CX-5 when one does drive aggressively. I have not driven one and wouldn't think about a Nissan until they can get their reliability up to snuff.

Anyway, there are any number of possible trade offs in any side-by-side comparison. I sensed the CX-5 lugging when test driving thinking I'd have to get used to it, give it some zoom zoom at the get off, and that has proven to be the answer when the situation allows. Sometimes the situation doesn't and I live with that.

In the world of "what ifs", how about an 8-speed tranny? That ought to smooth things out. The RAV4 has a 4 cylinder / 8-speed (kinda sorta) set-up, so the idea is not novel in this class. That's more expensive than a software modification and another setting for the console switch, but who's to say they could find a way to get the software to provide that middle ground without some mechanical re-design or some new trade-off.

An 8-speed might provide incremental fuel economy improvement, as they typically do, to allow for ditching the cylinder deactivation while still getting to the same mpg target. That would be a win-win for many, though any complaint I might have with CD performance would be a nit pick.

Couple other things:

As I understand it, the RAV4 is not a true 8-speed, rather a complicated CVT/gear hybrid where it uses a CVT-like belt system to accelerate through the equivalent of first and second gear, then switches to a geared system. This is relatively new--one wonders what the longevity will be like. I didn't test drive that one either though I've been quite happy with four Toyotas over the years. I don't like new things with high price tags. I prefer proven things when there is a chunk of money on the line.

Also, has Mazda ever build an 8-speed? My quick check says the larger vehicles in the line-up use 6-speeds If this is plowing new ground for Mazda that's something to consider in a risk avoidance calculation, for the maker and for us.
Nice post and I’d like to add some more info here.

Firstly, CVT gave up (rubber) belt long time ago for the obvious reason - reliability. They all are using some type of “metal belt” now for longevity.

Mazda’s 6-speed auto definitely is out of date. As you stated, Mazda really should spend money to develop an 8-speed or 10-speed automatic like Toyota did 5 years ago for better fuel economy. Instead Mazda made a big mistake spending money to the wrong area, the problematic and very complicate cylinder deactivation.

Toyota’s “new” 8-speed Direct Shift-8AT and 10-speed Direct Shift-10AT automatic transmissions are not new. The 8-speed has been used on Toyota Camry since 2017 and RAV4 since 2018, this means millions of Toyota’s “new” 8-speed Direct Shift auto trannies have been used in the US alone by 2 most popular vehicle models from Toyota. I have no concerns to get these “new” Toyota transmissions at any time.

Further, Toyota’s Direct Shift-8AT and 10AT are indeed traditional step automatic transmission with more gears. There’s no part similar to the CVT, but with some similarities to Mazda’s SkyActiv-Drive 6-speed automatic such as broader lockup gear range for direct driving feel. There’re many unique improvements for Toyota’s 8-speed and 10-speed transmissions which have become one of the most efficient automatic transmissions in the industry.

Toyota’s New 8-speed and 10-speed Automatic Transmissions (Direct Shift-8AT & Direct Shift-10AT)
 
Nice post and I’d like to add some more info here.

Firstly, CVT gave up (rubber) belt long time ago for the obvious reason - reliability. They all are using some type of “metal belt” now for longevity.

Mazda’s 6-speed auto definitely is out of date. As you stated, Mazda really should spend money to develop an 8-speed or 10-speed automatic like Toyota did 5 years ago for better fuel economy. Instead Mazda made a big mistake spending money to the wrong area, the problematic and very complicate cylinder deactivation.

Toyota’s “new” 8-speed Direct Shift-8AT and 10-speed Direct Shift-10AT automatic transmissions are not new. The 8-speed has been used on Toyota Camry since 2017 and RAV4 since 2018, this means millions of Toyota’s “new” 8-speed Direct Shift auto trannies have been used in the US alone 2 most popular vehicle models from Toyota. I have no concerns to get these “new” Toyota transmissions at any time.

Further, Toyota’s Direct Shift-8AT and 10AT are indeed traditional step automatic transmission with more gears. There’s no part similar to the CVT, but with some similarities to Mazda’s SkyActiv-Drive 6-speed automatic such as broader lockup gear range for direct driving feel. s.ere’re many unique improvements for Toyota’s 8-speed and 10-speed transmissions which have become one of the most efficient automatic transmissions in the industry.

Toyota’s New 8-speed and 10-speed Automatic Transmissions (Direct Shift-8AT & Direct Shift-10AT)
Thanks for correction on the RAV4. It's the Corolla I was thinking of, and it's the other way around--a launch gear to get off the line then transitioning to a CVT. One of those "OK Boomer" moment, I suppose. 🥸
 
Hi, folks. Indeed, the issue was a PCM software update, which completely fixed the problem. Unfortunately, my dealership would not give me a break on the cost--$195 all in -- because my car is out of warranty, with 37K miles. He said the PCM is not covered under the powertrain warranty, which covers only internal engine/transmission parts. I'm happy the issue is resolved but it sure seems that Mazda should have picked up the cost on this one. This is my first visit to the dealership, as I just bought the car used.
 
Hi, folks. Indeed, the issue was a PCM software update, which completely fixed the problem. Unfortunately, my dealership would not give me a break on the cost--$195 all in -- because my car is out of warranty, with 37K miles. He said the PCM is not covered under the powertrain warranty, which covers only internal engine/transmission parts. I'm happy the issue is resolved but it sure seems that Mazda should have picked up the cost on this one. This is my first visit to the dealership, as I just bought the car used.
I'd contact Mazda corporate about that. It was a transmission issue that was fixed with a software update.
 
Hi, folks. Indeed, the issue was a PCM software update, which completely fixed the problem. Unfortunately, my dealership would not give me a break on the cost--$195 all in -- because my car is out of warranty, with 37K miles. He said the PCM is not covered under the powertrain warranty, which covers only internal engine/transmission parts. I'm happy the issue is resolved but it sure seems that Mazda should have picked up the cost on this one. This is my first visit to the dealership, as I just bought the car used.
Give it some time then report back. I believe it's fine for like 500-1000 miles and the jerkiness will turn. Keen to know for sure.
 
Hi, folks. Indeed, the issue was a PCM software update, wahich completely fixed the problem. Unfortunately, my dealership would not give me a break on the cost--$195 all in -- because my car is out of warranty, with 37K miles. He said the PCM is not covered under the powertrain warranty, which covers only internal engine/transmission parts. I'm happy the issue is resolved but it sure seems that Mazda should have picked up the cost on this one. This is my first visit to the dealership, as I just bought the car used.
I was reviewing again the TSB linked in post #56 above. On the last page it states, "This repair will be covered under Mazda's New Vehicle Limited Warranty," so the dealer was not blowing smoke. Since you were only 1,000 miles out of warranty an appeal to Mazda district might get some traction.

Of course this begs the question of what's an owner to do if they already had 36,000 miles before this TSB was issued or before 12/18/20 or the prior revision was applicable to the vehicle.
 
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It's like the CX-5 has an Economy mode and a Sport mode, but needs a Normal mode somewhere in between the two. Sometimes when I get frustrated with it I just switch to manual. I appreciate having that option but it shouldn't be necessary.
I found today that middle mode was simulated with my wife in the vehicle, the A/C blasting with temps hitting the high 80's, with the trans set to normal mode.

It revs a bet higher with the extra load on the engine, I did not sense any inclination to lug, though you do get a bit of a jerky sensation with a bit more engine braking. All in all, I'd say, a bit smoother shifting under these conditions. A vehicle for all seasons perhaps.

This introduces another variable as to whether one person reports an unpleasant sensation someone else does not detect as with driving style whether by preference or as the situation dictates.
 
So, I had Northtown Mazda, Amherst, NY apply the previously discussed TSB 05-002/20 while I was in for an oil change, rotation and mud flaps installed:


Since my last post on this matter I experienced the 2 cycles per second surge (a quick surge-surge) in first gear as described in the TSB for the first and only time in 9 months / 4,000 miles of ownership which I couldn't recreate on a bet. I was going about 10 mph right after leaving my driveway and I think I eased off the gas while changing the radio station and then the surges occurred as I got back on the gas. It was mildly startling. However my chief hope with this TSB was that reprogramming the PCM might help with my chief complaint--a propensity to lug in first and second gear in normal mode, not sport, when driving without any zoom-zoom applied--admittedly a long shot.

The service writer was not familiar with the TSB, which did not surprise me, but after looking at it he concluded it probably wouldn't hurt. I agreed, at the risk of the dreaded unintended consequences. They went ahead with it without asking me to recreate the problem, under warranty of course. They test drove it 6 miles afterward--a strong indication they didn't just blow it off--and determined the TSB didn't break anything.

Post-TSB, I would say the improvement is somewhere between subtle and imaginary. I can still feel the lug when trying to make it so, but it might be less pronounced. The improvement might be imaginary because in following one of my top 100 life lessons--adapt to your tools, don't fight them--I've conditioned myself to modulate the gas with a little more zoom to prevent lugging and now have more difficulty recreating my initial impressions.

In general, I maintain my earlier assessment. The vehicle wants that little zoom-zoom getting to third gear. Don't baby it as one is inclined to do when acclimating to a new vehicle. It's pretty picky about how you modulate the gas but it does have a sweet spot. Of course traffic conditions and driving styles will vary, so how frequent or annoying the lugs might be will be in the eye of the beholder. Or drive in sport mode if you can stand it on your daily drive, i.e., you don't mind a drop in mpg and a much louder engine. In my few tests in sport I have not detected a lug which I attribute to the motor reving higher and thus in the right gear when reaccelerating.

Speaking of mpgs, I detect no difference after the TSB was applied after about 30 miles including the dealer test. I'm reading 30.7 mpg on the trip meter (zeroed out before service) in a mix of suburban, free-flowing expressway, and country roads, consistent with what I had been getting. So far, so good. I have not done a tank worth of true city driving (not the EPA's generous dynamometer), but I would judge that Consumer Reports 17/33 mpg in the real world is just about right as I have gotten that 33 on the trip meter on one free-flowing expressway run which probably translates to 32 in fact.

As a postscript for those in Western New York, I was pretty impressed with the vibe at Northtown. Attentive, no hassles at all, didn't try to sell me anything I didn't need, went over the inspection report, and the folks seemed to genuinely enjoy working there. The free coffee was good too. ;) I had not bought the vehicle from them but felt like a valued customer. The oil change and rotation was a respectable $89 + tax. When I made the appointment the woman asked if I was bringing the mud flaps with me--that might indicate they'd install parts bought elsewhere (I did not) which seems to me is unusual for a dealer shop.
 
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My car was made in Nov 2020 in Japan and I live in NZ. Hard to tell whether mine is applicable but still a good knowledge to know nevertheless.
The Japan-built VINs covered under the TSB are shown at the top. A comparison to the VIN plate on the dash would tell you if it is applicable.

Edit: I missed the note about "US Spec vehicles" so yes, it is hard to tell from what I know. The JM1BP prefix in the VIN might be the tip off.
 
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It's a software update. If your vin is in the affected ones, a visit to the dealer.
They will update the PCM with the version specified and thats it.
But most likely the non-US pcm has different software versions since the engine compression is different outside NA.
 
I noticed the TSB doesn't cover non-cylinder deactivation vehicles but a lot of people here are reporting this for non-CD vehicles.. myself included.

Has anyone outside of the cylinder deactivation vehicles been able to use the TSB at a dealer to get it fixed?

Thanks!
 
I've noticed this occasionally on lots of Mazdas; even new ones that have just been driven around the lot. It seems to be a PCM learning thing. Get on the freeway and floor it a couple of times
 
Give it some time then report back. I believe it's fine for like 500-1000 miles and the jerkiness will turn. Keen to know for sure.
The jerkiness has returned, unfortunately! It's quite annoying in normal stop and go traffic. Any suggestions on what to do next? Ask for another ECU reflash?
 
The jerkiness has returned, unfortunately! It's quite annoying in normal stop and go traffic. Any suggestions on what to do next? Ask for another ECU reflash?
Only Mazda can answer this question. You should call Customer Experience Center, Mazda North American Operations and complain.
 
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I find my CX-5 also has the low gear lugging from time to time as well. I just step on the gas pedal some more to get it going. I may also be suffering from the Lifter/Valve issue described in this thread Lifter/Valve Lash AND....bad vibration problem that related to very cold temp (-25 C and lower) that's apparently related to a TSB re: front engine mount (Gel filled). Spoke to my local Mazda dealer about the last problem, but need to wait for the extreme cold to return in order to re-create the issue. I'll spring the other issues on them at the same time. Should be fun.....:confused:
 
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