how slow is your p 5

[Installshield 2]

this thread is funny on a few levels...

first...to the OP...consider a few things, such as how 'slow' your car is...which is a relative assessment...slow compared to what?...a bone stock 2.0L protege will put out about 100whp, give or take a few hp depending on condition and maintenance ..thats Honda Fit territory...putting you smack in the middle of true econo-car performance in straight lines...its enough power to climb hills, break into lower 8's in a 0-60 time, and pass people on a highway occasionally...but thats about it.

2nd...don't just 'oh well, i'll boost it'...you're sitting in a thread with 2 of the fastest street driven protege's..literally...on earth...Spiced MSP and BrianMP5t have put years into research and custom build layouts that you're not going to simply 'buy a kit' replicate what they have...as again...its a relative assessment...you can boost your protege, and you're STILL going to be slow compared to those two...very much so...

so back to what p-funk said...what kind of slow are we talking about?...is your rebuilt or whatever engine no better than the broken one? Can you get an idea of acceleration times?...a FS with a header and a muffler is still going to be a snail...but it should feel at least workable...so you're positive you don't have some mechanical/electrical problems or anything? I'm one of the few guys left that stuck to NA, and decided against an engine swap of any kind...with literally every bolt-on imaginable as well as custom cams, cam gears, and an MP3 computer...its still 'slow'...but a whole lot more fun than it was when i bought it...

 

[whatusername]

Shield did u and p-funk not read the original post? Fast as compared to what? It says 2000 neon. And its a snail i accept it but Luke in The original. Post i stated i never. Drove Tue car prior to The rebuild. So on that am i automatically. Supposed to know p5's are slow to begin with? No right so me starting. This thread was just to make sure it was normal. Also i said i wanted to boost it never did i say i wanted the fastest p5 in here lol I'm not a rice kid...CAN A MOD PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD.

 

[Spiced MSP]

this thread is funny on a few levels...

first...to the OP...consider a few things, such as how 'slow' your car is...which is a relative assessment...slow compared to what?...a bone stock 2.0L protege will put out about 100whp, give or take a few hp depending on condition and maintenance ..thats Honda Fit territory...putting you smack in the middle of true econo-car performance in straight lines...its enough power to climb hills, break into lower 8's in a 0-60 time, and pass people on a highway occasionally...but thats about it.

2nd...don't just 'oh well, i'll boost it'...you're sitting in a thread with 2 of the fastest street driven protege's..literally...on earth...Spiced MSP and BrianMP5t have put years into research and custom build layouts that you're not going to simply 'buy a kit' replicate what they have...as again...its a relative assessment...you can boost your protege, and you're STILL going to be slow compared to those two...very much so...

so back to what p-funk said...what kind of slow are we talking about?...is your rebuilt or whatever engine no better than the broken one? Can you get an idea of acceleration times?...a FS with a header and a muffler is still going to be a snail...but it should feel at least workable...so you're positive you don't have some mechanical/electrical problems or anything? I'm one of the few guys left that stuck to NA, and decided against an engine swap of any kind...with literally every bolt-on imaginable as well as custom cams, cam gears, and an MP3 computer...its still 'slow'...but a whole lot more fun than it was when i bought it...

lol, Im not built yet or anywhere as fast as Brian, but that is my next step. However the research part is accurate..lol.

and OP calm down, it's not that serious. I understood what you meant. You have never driven a p5 before so you don't have a "baseline" feel for how they are supposed to perform. If you want to find out, drive another p5 or any NA protege and then drive yours again.

 

[whatusername]

No worries. I am. Calm lol its jus a big ol pain trying to get my point across over n over again especially when posting from a cell phone you get typos and predictive text is a pain you have to go back and edit and re edit and all iwanted to know if they are normally slow I got my answer d so I'm happy thanks to everybody who responded

 

[Installshield 2]

yeah its cool, dude...I wasn't trying to criticize you...My very first car was a 1995 DOHC neon...i've never owned an automatic car...both the neon and the p5 felt 'similar' stock...as in both seemed slow to me...in my case it would've been very hard to tell just on feel which was less slow haha...

also man, check your phone's keyboard settings or something...Its a bit hard to decipher what you're saying exactly, thats all.

Spiced, sorry i didn't know where you were exactly with your build...I just saw the list, and know you've been on here forever too...figured it was finished haha

 

[Spiced MSP]

Spiced, sorry i didn't know where you were exactly with your build...I just saw the list, and know you've been on here forever too...figured it was finished haha

lol, man I wish it was finished. Im trying to get this build started asap. As soon as the build is done, I'll be moving on to a PAR trans with Mfactory LSD

 

[whatusername]

also man, check your phone's keyboard settings or something...Its a bit hard to decipher what you're saying exactly, thats all.

Spiced, sorry i didn't know where you were exactly with your build...I just saw the list, and know you've been on here forever too...figured it was finished haha

yea i know the problem is my phone has a 3.5 inch screen and i got fat fingers lol and when i use the google voice i get more typos than anything i guess cuz of my accent

 

[tweety2300]

You're trying to compare two different cars that really don't compete with each other.

The stock 2000 Dodge Neon generated approximately 130ish WHP with a manual transmission.

Your Protege5 is lucky to put town 100 at the wheels.

However, stock-for-stock, the P5 will own the Neon in turns and curves and handling.

I owned two Neons before I got my Protege5, and I certainly love Neons - and if money weren't an object I'd have a project Neon.

But I *love* my P5 and while I'd love it if it had more power than it does, I'm loving it on twisty country backroads - even more than my Neons.

(For reference's sake - 95-99 DOHC MTX Neons were the fastest bone-stock and, with a really good driver, ought to be able to finish 1/4 mile in juuuuuuuust under 15 seconds. I had a 97 DOHC ATX, which were the second-slowest Neon powertrain combination you could get, and with a CAI, Flowmaster, and UDP the best time I could put down was 17.55 seconds. 2000+ Neons were all SOHC (rated 132hp) or SOHC "Magnum" (rated 150hp) and with a non-magnum SOHC and the 4-speed auto they switched to in 2001, you have the only Neon slower than a 1gen DOHC ATX. I spent around 7 or 8 years on Neon forums before I got my Protege5, I could go on and on and on and on about Neons. That's kinda why I got a different car, lol)

I very seriously doubt an NA neon will do the 1/4 mile in under 15 seconds stock

 

[tweety2300]

And btw my mp3 with intake and horrible maintnence on previous owners part will just barely pull on my moms Pontiac vibe which ran an 11.8 in the 1/8 mile, so in all seriousness I would say a stock protege will be mid to low 11s in the 1/8 mile.

And just for my .02 since y'all are talking about the weaknesses of the protege in stock form, even when you build it and make 400+ whp have fun with traction, there's a reason why all fast cars are rwd or awd. Although they can be fast and all when it comes to off the line quickness it won't happen. Which is why I decided not to build mine. 200-250 whp in a fwd car is fun but with 200 I spin all the way through 2nd gear and ill be pushing around 300 through the summer and it will suck.

 

[Spiced MSP]

I agree on the neon. You say a stock neon has around 130whp. A stock MSP generally dynoes around 140-155 stock with maybe a cone filter and most run a 1/4 in 15-15.5 depending on the driver. However, there have been some stock MSP break 14s stock. But a neon with less power than a MSP, I don't see it happening

OAN, the whole FWD vs RWD is old news. If you make big power with a RWD car, the same will happen. You will spin and kick the ass end out. But AWD is definitely a better choice out of the two when it comes to off the line performance. But just like the others, when you start making big power, the car will still spin on street tires. Also, there is nothing some sticky tires can't fix if you are worried about wheelspin. If you are going for big power and want to put the power down, buy slicks. Of course street tires won't do the job. If you are putting out decent numbers and complaining about wheelspin on a DD, than you are more than likely doing something you don't need to be doing and could possibly get a citation if caught..lol. I would think those that have big power would be smart enough to display that power in a controlled environment with good tires. I have everything needed to make 500+hp with the exception of a built motor and trans, as soon as I get those, Im aiming for 11's in the 1/4

 

[tweety2300]

Since when did neons make 130 whp?

 

[Spiced MSP]

just going off of what sleepwalker posted. I don't really know anything about neons as I have never cared about them

 

[tweety2300]

I know my protege pulled on an auto neon, pretty sure it had a 2.0 but I can't remember

 

[whatusername]

the neon is not bad car if u maintain it i loved mine minus all the repair and poor handling but it was a very solid car

 

[Installshield 2]

Since when did neons make 130 whp?

I was wondering the exact same thing. I had a 95 DOHC ACR coupe (didn't even know anything about that when i bought it, i was in high school and picked it up in late 99)...which was the plymouth variant...it was rated at 150bhp...had a big old hole in the muffler when i picked it up, which i replaced with a twin tip vibrant axle back a few weeks later...

It dyno'd at 116whp...with roughly 80,000 miles...forums weren't really around yet back then, and i never followed up on it after i sold it just 1.5 years later...but i was told by many that the DOHC barely made more power than the SOHC engines, and it was mostly a gimmick...granted, a few months later after that dyno it did end up with a leaking head gasket...so who knows, maybe mine was low...but 130whp in anything close to stock...isn't adding up...i watched countless stock DOHC neon's put down mid 16's at my local track back then...the biggest issue most complained about was that the car's gearing was all wrong...1st and 2nd were way too short (you couldn't even reach 60mph in 2nd), but then 3rd was very tall...causing a noticeable drop out of the power band...which all added up to pretty bad times relative to decent power output...with better gearing, i'd believe very high 15's...so i guess that may have been something addressed in later models

...I knew that car pretty well, you always remember your first...and i had a brand new p5 just a few months after i sold the neon (had a probe GT in there briefly, but it was falling apart from the PO)...the neon and p5 felt nearly identical in straight line acceleration...

those are all 1st gen neon's though...i have no clue as to what changed with the 2nd release...all i know is that if i had my eyes shut i would never have been able to tell the difference stock vs. stock between a 95 neon and 02 P5...both were slow as s*** haha...

 

[rit14623]

Because I bought it blown if I'm driving it that means it's been rebuilt. it has all new rings bearings seals gaskets oil pump belts water pump plugs wires timing kit VtCs removed intake ported and polished cleaned egr cleaned idle air control valve clean mass air flow sensor clean throttle body the only thing I did not replace was the coils and that is because I was thinking about the 1.8 conversion

Okay. Worn out coils can give you bad performance, like dirty spark plugs. Also, your catalytic converter might be clogged.

 

[tweety2300]

I was wondering the exact same thing. I had a 95 DOHC ACR coupe (didn't even know anything about that when i bought it, i was in high school and picked it up in late 99)...which was the plymouth variant...it was rated at 150bhp...had a big old hole in the muffler when i picked it up, which i replaced with a twin tip vibrant axle back a few weeks later...

It dyno'd at 116whp...with roughly 80,000 miles...forums weren't really around yet back then, and i never followed up on it after i sold it just 1.5 years later...but i was told by many that the DOHC barely made more power than the SOHC engines, and it was mostly a gimmick...granted, a few months later after that dyno it did end up with a leaking head gasket...so who knows, maybe mine was low...but 130whp in anything close to stock...isn't adding up...i watched countless stock DOHC neon's put down mid 16's at my local track back then...the biggest issue most complained about was that the car's gearing was all wrong...1st and 2nd were way too short (you couldn't even reach 60mph in 2nd), but then 3rd was very tall...causing a noticeable drop out of the power band...which all added up to pretty bad times relative to decent power output...with better gearing, i'd believe very high 15's...so i guess that may have been something addressed in later models

...I knew that car pretty well, you always remember your first...and i had a brand new p5 just a few months after i sold the neon (had a probe GT in there briefly, but it was falling apart from the PO)...the neon and p5 felt nearly identical in straight line acceleration...

those are all 1st gen neon's though...i have no clue as to what changed with the 2nd release...all i know is that if i had my eyes shut i would never have been able to tell the difference stock vs. stock between a 95 neon and 02 P5...both were slow as s*** haha...

Protege gearing is a bit weird a well, 40 in 1st 65 in 2nd and 85 in 3rd and its still slow 60-80 in 3rd lol

 

[sleepwalker]

Yeah, it's been a while since I was on the Neon forums, since I haven't had one in about 6 years. That was my mistake - those figures are crank HP, not wheel HP.

That being said, for the 95-99 model years, the DOHC Neons were rated at 150hp and the SOHC were rated at either 132 or 136, I don't recall which. All automatic transmissions were the same. The manual transmissions were different - DOHC's got a 3.94 and the SOHC's got a 3.55 final drive. Funny thing happened when you put a DOHC on an automatic transmission, though - DOHC's hit their power peak above 6000rpm (I can't remember the exact point but it was above 6000 and might've been above 6500) which is well higher than the 3-speed hydraulic ATX would shift; essentially with a DOHC and an ATX, you *never* would reach your peak power. SOHC's were nearly perfect for the ATX - but still not as fast as either engine with a manual.

My DOHC was an automatic (that's the one I took to Rockingham and *almost* won the Slowest Neon award with). My second Neon was a SOHC manual, and I always felt the gears were all a little too long, though hitting 80mph in 3rd gear before finishing the onramp of the interstate was always a fun time. An awful lot of DOHC owners who went turbo wound up swapping out the transmission for the longer-geared SOHC one.

I spent 2001-2008 (roughly) as a regular at neons.org and (the no-longer-existing) neonspeed.com, and lemme tell ya, those little cars got a lot more guts than most people think. Summer of 2004 a bunch of us from neonspeed rented out the Rockingham Dragstrip for a few hours. We had stock Neons, I/H/E Neons, turbo/nitrous Neons, wicked N/A Neons - there were like 40 of us I think. And there were a couple drivers that were in the low 15's or high 14's. One guy only had an intake and underdrive pulley. And I mean only - we called this car the Beer Can. Driver's seat, steering wheel, gauge cluster and necessary switches. Everything else was removed - carpet, weatherstripping, even the hood prop rod. Thing weighed less than a ton, and 1gen Neons are relatively lightweight anyway. Put two cars next to each other with the same HP and TQ numbers, the lighter one wins unless the driver stinks.

The 2000+ model years, not a whole lot changed, except the 3-speed hydraulic ATX was replaced with a 4-speed electric (which sucked for performance even more than the old 3-speed, but did better in gas mileage) and about 400 pounds of weight was added. And the DOHC was replaced with the 2.0 SOHC Magnum.

I'm not claiming to be the end-all-be-all Neon expert. I'm just saying I spent a lot of years floating in them, even if I couldn't afford to do anything beyond intake/exhaust/UDP, and happened to pick up a few bits of knowledge about them. I look at it as preparing me for my upcoming years as a P5 owner.

 

[citykids]

The bottleneck is under the hood. The rest is fantastic.

I had to replace almost everything to get "Race Car" performance.

Whoa, that's clean! (boom05)

 

[tweety2300]

Yeah, it's been a while since I was on the Neon forums, since I haven't had one in about 6 years. That was my mistake - those figures are crank HP, not wheel HP.

That being said, for the 95-99 model years, the DOHC Neons were rated at 150hp and the SOHC were rated at either 132 or 136, I don't recall which. All automatic transmissions were the same. The manual transmissions were different - DOHC's got a 3.94 and the SOHC's got a 3.55 final drive. Funny thing happened when you put a DOHC on an automatic transmission, though - DOHC's hit their power peak above 6000rpm (I can't remember the exact point but it was above 6000 and might've been above 6500) which is well higher than the 3-speed hydraulic ATX would shift; essentially with a DOHC and an ATX, you *never* would reach your peak power. SOHC's were nearly perfect for the ATX - but still not as fast as either engine with a manual.

My DOHC was an automatic (that's the one I took to Rockingham and *almost* won the Slowest Neon award with). My second Neon was a SOHC manual, and I always felt the gears were all a little too long, though hitting 80mph in 3rd gear before finishing the onramp of the interstate was always a fun time. An awful lot of DOHC owners who went turbo wound up swapping out the transmission for the longer-geared SOHC one.

I spent 2001-2008 (roughly) as a regular at neons.org and (the no-longer-existing) neonspeed.com, and lemme tell ya, those little cars got a lot more guts than most people think. Summer of 2004 a bunch of us from neonspeed rented out the Rockingham Dragstrip for a few hours. We had stock Neons, I/H/E Neons, turbo/nitrous Neons, wicked N/A Neons - there were like 40 of us I think. And there were a couple drivers that were in the low 15's or high 14's. One guy only had an intake and underdrive pulley. And I mean only - we called this car the Beer Can. Driver's seat, steering wheel, gauge cluster and necessary switches. Everything else was removed - carpet, weatherstripping, even the hood prop rod. Thing weighed less than a ton, and 1gen Neons are relatively lightweight anyway. Put two cars next to each other with the same HP and TQ numbers, the lighter one wins unless the driver stinks.

The 2000+ model years, not a whole lot changed, except the 3-speed hydraulic ATX was replaced with a 4-speed electric (which sucked for performance even more than the old 3-speed, but did better in gas mileage) and about 400 pounds of weight was added. And the DOHC was replaced with the 2.0 SOHC Magnum.

I'm not claiming to be the end-all-be-all Neon expert. I'm just saying I spent a lot of years floating in them, even if I couldn't afford to do anything beyond intake/exhaust/UDP, and happened to pick up a few bits of knowledge about them. I look at it as preparing me for my upcoming years as a P5 owner.

Unless its a Honda b h j or f series motor you will never have a fast NA car, my 323 pulls on my protege with ease on stock boost which is 8 psi in a 1.6. Actually even bone stock it made more power than a protege and that was back in 88. And in pretty sure my dpfi d15b2 ef civic tht was straight piped an had bad piston rings would have pulled in the protege, although it only weighed 2100 lbs, if that

A protege is slow a neon is slow end of story and unless you boost it, it will be slow. There is no fixing it without boosting it, as they don't like nitrous